WARNING! The topic and post herein may contain content inappropriate for children, or those senstive to certain content involving sexual themes. It may or may not include images, descriptions, videoes and/or other forms of media. Read on at your own discretion. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
DISCLAIMER - The creator of this topic absolutely intends for NO ONE TO POST PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES OR CONTENT OF ANY KIND. If any such content is found herein, immediately report it, and Mods, if it is seen, immediately remove it with all due haste. For the rest of us, us this rle of thumb-
IF IT WOULDN'T MAKE IT INTO AN "M" RATED GAME OR AN "R" RATED MOVIE, DON'T POST IT. (If you're from another country, use your own country's analouges for the American rating system if you're not sure.)
ALSO - While this discussion deals mainly with one side of the arguement, the creator of the topic knows very well there is another side. However, this side of the arguement tends to be the loudest and most prevelant, thus dealing with this side will create the most silence in the fastest way possible.
Now then.....
Women. In anime. In manga. In hentai. In Rapelay. Yes, I mentioned that, because its whats gotten me to think about this topic a little more in-depth. What is that topic you may ask? Well ladies and gentlemen - its the depiction of women in anime, manga and games, why it has drawn so much more critizism then say, the depictions of women in Western media (otsenibly, anyways).
First, I think it would be appropriate to have something to think of while discussing this topic. Because I know almost everyone can think of particular images in their own mind, it would help if we were all thinking in the same general direction for this.
Now then, here are some examples of the kind of women that draw this critizism. (Excuse links instead of images, as I don't know how to embedd images into posts.)
Masane Amaha - Witchblade [http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3133/336822-185778-masane-amaha_large.jpg]
Mai Shiranui - King of Fighters (series) [http://static.minitokyo.net/view/31/40/307031.jpg]
Lt. Rangiku Matsumoto - Bleach [http://bleachbankai.b.l.pic.centerblog.net/bum6gdnc.jpg]
Ryofo and Ryomu - Ikki Tousen [http://nttxstore.jp/dvdsub/Z/ZMBZ-1670-3.jpg]
Kasumi - Dead or Alive (series) [ http://estb.msn.com/i/9B/A66B72865AB041E3ECD1029C385A1.jpg]
Now I'll give you some time to look over the pictures......
Ok times up. Hands back on mice.....not that it applies to any of you.
Ignoring personalities for now, we can all see these females all have several things in common. Hourglass figures, lips, behinds....chests.....chests......boooooobs.......
*Ahem* Sorry 'bout that. Now, the issue seemingly at hand is why these various industries keep portraying women in this way. Well, that answer is simple - because the majority of consumers of video games, anime, manga and the like are undeniably MALE. MEN. BOYS. THINGS WITH HOO-HAHS.
So the true question is why these outlets constantly keep portraying women in this way (read: otsenibly as sex objects)? The answer most will throw out there is simple greed, debasing of the female in general, etc. etc. Well, my rebuttal is this - YOU'RE ALL WRONG. So very, very wrong.
I suppose I'll have to start with the images themselves. The images above all have very similar properties, because, big surprise they're the kind of physical traits that are generally found in almost every nation, ethnicity etc. to be the most attractive. But then again, thats a biology thing, not a willful thing - humans are still animals, and hourglass/pear figures register with humans as being more biologically fit than bananna or apple shapes, regardless if the observer is male or female. Thus, when women are "designed", artists are going to design things in this way to attract more people to them.
This is often the first complaint. That these depictions are unrealistic, fake, set poor standars for both men and women, depress little girls, etc. etc. Well, of course they're going to be unrealistic and fake - its an artistic medium for cryin' out loud!" The women in Playboy or on the front of "Cosmo" are hardly more "real" - probably enough plastic in there to mint out a couple hundred Master Chief figures. Further, just like the women in those above items, they're idealized - they're supposed to repersent a kind of "perfection". Perhaps if we tried explaining it that way to our sons and daughters, we could avoid this entre discussion......but I digress. Yes. They have ginormus, unnaturally perky breasts. Yes, they have perfect asses. Yes, they have plump, pouty lips. And I bet there are at least ten of you right now who would kill your next-door-neigbhor with a spatula to have any of those things, right now.
Next, is the way they behave. This is where it often differs between mediums, so I'll take each kind seperately. First the complaints about women in these mediums being too "forward" or "sluty" or "sexual". This, I contend, is one half-of the male fantasy, IE: the perfect world - a world where women stop being frigid and accept their sexuality and embrace it as much as men (seemingly) do, instead of treating it like some secret you lock and away and never touch. In essence - you're HOT. Accept it, and sto acting surprised when guys do stuff around you they don't do around other guys. Maybe even have a little fun with it. Examples of these kinds of characters would be Matsumoto (Bleach), Ryofo (Ikki Tousen), Yoruichi (Bleach) and Masane (Witchblade).
Another kind of behavoir is the kind of the submissive, "give-in" kind of woman, often seen in Hentai and H-games (excluding the rape kind), but it can be found everywhere. This is where most people will tend to disagree - I say this less about the woman, then it is about the man. See, what most of these games (and the shows/manga) that depict show anthoer side of the man - the insecure, scared part. This media allows men particular plagued by that little issue to overcome it - to pretend, at least for a while, that there is a girl that attractive, and you're that confident, and she can't say no. Even she does, you can try again.
See, even if we past the arguements of there being really attractive women in the world, etc. the fact still remains that they can say "no" - and ladies, that little word can hurt men more then anything else you can do to them. You, the star soccer player, could wind up, take full, kleated kick into our nuts, and it would still hurt less then "no".
This is what drives the whole thing - the whole topic itself. the fear of failure. Failure to be able to find that perfect girl. The fear that even if found, she can say no, destroying all the work, and crushing dreams in an instant. And for people in general, thats not a pleasant thought. See, these women, these women of video games, of anime, of manga, are all little snippets of a perfect world, brought to this one, to try and provide some relief from how much this one utterly blows. I mean, how many of you would have bought this game of "Life" knowing how poor the class selection is, the obscene upkeep costs, and how often you have to deal with random encounters? Not to mention all the griefiers......
Back on topic, while discussing many of these "women" of animation, many forget to actually take a look, at you know, personalities and stuff. And this is where many of us get flustered - many of the women depicted are quite admirable, even if a little silly. Hardly anyone who ahs actually watched the shows could call Matsumoto or Soi Fong "stupid", or Masane mere "eye candy" with no base.
In addition, if women really, really want the image of women to change in this kind of media, then why not show more support and interest in women more fitting to the image you want? May I suggest characters like Captain Soi Fong - Bleach [http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/O/OZL/1123518646_2.jpeg]
Naru - Love Hina [http://us.geocities.com/seiyuu_directory/image/naru.jpg]
Major Motoko Kusanagi - Ghost in The Shell [http://www.ucandaire.org/imaj/mnc/kusanagi.jpg]
...all of defeat the "airhead", "bimbo" and "submissive" descriptors quite handily.
So ladies, maybe what I'm trying to say is this - the next time a friend wants you to dress up like Morrigan or Felica, they might not think ill of you - they just might be thinking it'll be fun. So don't tear their throats out, alright'?
There.....I've said what I have to say. Some of you are intrigued. Some of you are foaming at the mouth, looking for the quickest path that will take you to tearing my nuts off. There is an ultra-femisist hit squad somewhere on its way to kill me. Some of you are just plain confused. At least one of you probably forgot to go to the bathroom, and is now sitting awkwardly in a puddle of wee. Might want to go get that taken care of.
DISCLAIMER - The creator of this topic absolutely intends for NO ONE TO POST PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES OR CONTENT OF ANY KIND. If any such content is found herein, immediately report it, and Mods, if it is seen, immediately remove it with all due haste. For the rest of us, us this rle of thumb-
IF IT WOULDN'T MAKE IT INTO AN "M" RATED GAME OR AN "R" RATED MOVIE, DON'T POST IT. (If you're from another country, use your own country's analouges for the American rating system if you're not sure.)
ALSO - While this discussion deals mainly with one side of the arguement, the creator of the topic knows very well there is another side. However, this side of the arguement tends to be the loudest and most prevelant, thus dealing with this side will create the most silence in the fastest way possible.
Now then.....
Women. In anime. In manga. In hentai. In Rapelay. Yes, I mentioned that, because its whats gotten me to think about this topic a little more in-depth. What is that topic you may ask? Well ladies and gentlemen - its the depiction of women in anime, manga and games, why it has drawn so much more critizism then say, the depictions of women in Western media (otsenibly, anyways).
First, I think it would be appropriate to have something to think of while discussing this topic. Because I know almost everyone can think of particular images in their own mind, it would help if we were all thinking in the same general direction for this.
Now then, here are some examples of the kind of women that draw this critizism. (Excuse links instead of images, as I don't know how to embedd images into posts.)
Masane Amaha - Witchblade [http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3133/336822-185778-masane-amaha_large.jpg]
Mai Shiranui - King of Fighters (series) [http://static.minitokyo.net/view/31/40/307031.jpg]
Lt. Rangiku Matsumoto - Bleach [http://bleachbankai.b.l.pic.centerblog.net/bum6gdnc.jpg]
Ryofo and Ryomu - Ikki Tousen [http://nttxstore.jp/dvdsub/Z/ZMBZ-1670-3.jpg]
Kasumi - Dead or Alive (series) [ http://estb.msn.com/i/9B/A66B72865AB041E3ECD1029C385A1.jpg]
Now I'll give you some time to look over the pictures......
Ok times up. Hands back on mice.....not that it applies to any of you.
Ignoring personalities for now, we can all see these females all have several things in common. Hourglass figures, lips, behinds....chests.....chests......boooooobs.......
*Ahem* Sorry 'bout that. Now, the issue seemingly at hand is why these various industries keep portraying women in this way. Well, that answer is simple - because the majority of consumers of video games, anime, manga and the like are undeniably MALE. MEN. BOYS. THINGS WITH HOO-HAHS.
So the true question is why these outlets constantly keep portraying women in this way (read: otsenibly as sex objects)? The answer most will throw out there is simple greed, debasing of the female in general, etc. etc. Well, my rebuttal is this - YOU'RE ALL WRONG. So very, very wrong.
I suppose I'll have to start with the images themselves. The images above all have very similar properties, because, big surprise they're the kind of physical traits that are generally found in almost every nation, ethnicity etc. to be the most attractive. But then again, thats a biology thing, not a willful thing - humans are still animals, and hourglass/pear figures register with humans as being more biologically fit than bananna or apple shapes, regardless if the observer is male or female. Thus, when women are "designed", artists are going to design things in this way to attract more people to them.
This is often the first complaint. That these depictions are unrealistic, fake, set poor standars for both men and women, depress little girls, etc. etc. Well, of course they're going to be unrealistic and fake - its an artistic medium for cryin' out loud!" The women in Playboy or on the front of "Cosmo" are hardly more "real" - probably enough plastic in there to mint out a couple hundred Master Chief figures. Further, just like the women in those above items, they're idealized - they're supposed to repersent a kind of "perfection". Perhaps if we tried explaining it that way to our sons and daughters, we could avoid this entre discussion......but I digress. Yes. They have ginormus, unnaturally perky breasts. Yes, they have perfect asses. Yes, they have plump, pouty lips. And I bet there are at least ten of you right now who would kill your next-door-neigbhor with a spatula to have any of those things, right now.
Next, is the way they behave. This is where it often differs between mediums, so I'll take each kind seperately. First the complaints about women in these mediums being too "forward" or "sluty" or "sexual". This, I contend, is one half-of the male fantasy, IE: the perfect world - a world where women stop being frigid and accept their sexuality and embrace it as much as men (seemingly) do, instead of treating it like some secret you lock and away and never touch. In essence - you're HOT. Accept it, and sto acting surprised when guys do stuff around you they don't do around other guys. Maybe even have a little fun with it. Examples of these kinds of characters would be Matsumoto (Bleach), Ryofo (Ikki Tousen), Yoruichi (Bleach) and Masane (Witchblade).
Another kind of behavoir is the kind of the submissive, "give-in" kind of woman, often seen in Hentai and H-games (excluding the rape kind), but it can be found everywhere. This is where most people will tend to disagree - I say this less about the woman, then it is about the man. See, what most of these games (and the shows/manga) that depict show anthoer side of the man - the insecure, scared part. This media allows men particular plagued by that little issue to overcome it - to pretend, at least for a while, that there is a girl that attractive, and you're that confident, and she can't say no. Even she does, you can try again.
See, even if we past the arguements of there being really attractive women in the world, etc. the fact still remains that they can say "no" - and ladies, that little word can hurt men more then anything else you can do to them. You, the star soccer player, could wind up, take full, kleated kick into our nuts, and it would still hurt less then "no".
This is what drives the whole thing - the whole topic itself. the fear of failure. Failure to be able to find that perfect girl. The fear that even if found, she can say no, destroying all the work, and crushing dreams in an instant. And for people in general, thats not a pleasant thought. See, these women, these women of video games, of anime, of manga, are all little snippets of a perfect world, brought to this one, to try and provide some relief from how much this one utterly blows. I mean, how many of you would have bought this game of "Life" knowing how poor the class selection is, the obscene upkeep costs, and how often you have to deal with random encounters? Not to mention all the griefiers......
Back on topic, while discussing many of these "women" of animation, many forget to actually take a look, at you know, personalities and stuff. And this is where many of us get flustered - many of the women depicted are quite admirable, even if a little silly. Hardly anyone who ahs actually watched the shows could call Matsumoto or Soi Fong "stupid", or Masane mere "eye candy" with no base.
In addition, if women really, really want the image of women to change in this kind of media, then why not show more support and interest in women more fitting to the image you want? May I suggest characters like Captain Soi Fong - Bleach [http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/O/OZL/1123518646_2.jpeg]
Naru - Love Hina [http://us.geocities.com/seiyuu_directory/image/naru.jpg]
Major Motoko Kusanagi - Ghost in The Shell [http://www.ucandaire.org/imaj/mnc/kusanagi.jpg]
...all of defeat the "airhead", "bimbo" and "submissive" descriptors quite handily.
So ladies, maybe what I'm trying to say is this - the next time a friend wants you to dress up like Morrigan or Felica, they might not think ill of you - they just might be thinking it'll be fun. So don't tear their throats out, alright'?
There.....I've said what I have to say. Some of you are intrigued. Some of you are foaming at the mouth, looking for the quickest path that will take you to tearing my nuts off. There is an ultra-femisist hit squad somewhere on its way to kill me. Some of you are just plain confused. At least one of you probably forgot to go to the bathroom, and is now sitting awkwardly in a puddle of wee. Might want to go get that taken care of.
