Wonder Woman Loses Director Because of "Creative Differences"

[Ishigami]

This would have been a big step for female directors who, by-and-large, haven't been selected by major studios to take on superhero projects.

Because by-and-large it appears that most directors are male by a ratio of 9 to 1.

Warner Brother?s own fault. If they looked for a person capable of pulling of the project instead of one with a certain type of genitalia maybe they could actually go ahead with the project.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Dont care who directs it, whether male or female, just get a director who is a good fit and give them some freedom to make the movie.

 

[RJ Dalton]

Somehow, I'm not surprised. This whole project has seemed like nothing but an over-managed mess from the beginning.

 

[Yuuki]

"The director MUST be female!" was already enough to douse my hopes and make me extremely skeptical of the movie.

Warner Bros is retarded.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I wonder what sort of "creative control" WB is imposing on the Justice League movie.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Would be Lana Wachowski kinda cheating on the woman criteria? At least i'm sure she would get somewhat more freedom than others.

I don't think you can get one Wachowski sibling without dragging in the other one.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Would be Lana Wachowski kinda cheating on the woman criteria? At least i'm sure she would get somewhat more freedom than others.

I don't think you can get one Wachowski sibling without dragging in the other one.

God, a Wachowski siblings superhero film would either be phenomenal or it would be absolutely insufferable to sit through, and this is coming from somebody who generally likes their films.

The latter Matrix movies are superhero flicks, if we must boil them down. V for Vendetta as well, kinda, though they just produced that one.

 

[Fox12]

Time to hire Marjane Satrapi for the job.

At least, she's my pick. And, yes, only because The Voices is amazing.

The comic book writer?

That

...

That's actually not a bad idea. She may be overqualified for the role, though.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

It has happened before with many films, and it shall happen again. I am basically praying to any God that listens that this movie be a success. It doesn't need (though it may) shift any paradigms or redefine a genre, it just needs to be enjoyable without insulting it's audience.

 

[JohnBoyAdvance]

God, Why is it with every DC movie I have dread and with every Marvel movie I have joy and optimism?

I'm a DC guy. I prefer DC over Marvel. And yet.

This movie actually has to be good though, this isn't like Catwoman and Green Lantern (HOW DO YOU SCREW UP SPACE POLICE WITH JEWELLERY: THE MOVIE?) Wonder Woman for years has been part of the DC Trinity with Bats and Supes. It needs to be good.

 

[NoeL]

giving favouritism and preference is no less sexist than being discriminatory.

If they looked for a person capable of pulling of the project instead of one with a certain type of genitalia maybe they could actually go ahead with the project.

"The director MUST be female!" was already enough to douse my hopes and make me extremely skeptical of the movie.

I gotta disagree with you guys (particularly MonsterCrit). While certainly not true in an absolute sense, a woman is generally going to be more familiar with women's issues than a man, and vice versa. If the studio cared about producing a movie that spoke to women's issues it's going to be a much safer bet going with a female director. That's not say a man couldn't make that movie, but there's much more of a chance they'll royally fuck it up and come across as patronising/condescending (remember Metroid: Other M?). It's not sexist or discriminatory at all - it's them picking the right director for the kind of movie they want to make. If they wanted to make a movie that really spoke to Mexican cultural values, for example, getting a Mexican director on board is probably not a bad idea, and accusations of racism would be ridiculous.

EDIT: To be clear I'm not claiming to know WB's motivations for wanting a female director, just combating claims that they're necessarily "sexist" for doing so.

 

[AngronIsAngry]

Batman is not about paternity or custody issues.
Superman is not about prostate cancer.
Aquaman is not about how to use an underwater toilet.
So, why does Wonder Woman has to be about women's issues?

 

[MonsterCrit]

giving favouritism and preference is no less sexist than being discriminatory.

If they looked for a person capable of pulling of the project instead of one with a certain type of genitalia maybe they could actually go ahead with the project.

"The director MUST be female!" was already enough to douse my hopes and make me extremely skeptical of the movie.

I gotta disagree with you guys (particularly MonsterCrit). While certainly not true in an absolute sense, a woman is generally going to be more familiar with women's issues than a man, and vice versa. If the studio cared about producing a movie that spoke to women's issues it's going to be a much safer bet going with a female director. That's not say a man couldn't make that movie, but there's much more of a chance they'll royally fuck it up and come across as patronising/condescending (remember Metroid: Other M?). It's not sexist or discriminatory at all - it's them picking the right director for the kind of movie they want to make. If they wanted to make a movie that really spoke to Mexican cultural values, for example, getting a Mexican director on board is probably not a bad idea, and accusations of racism would be ridiculous.

EDIT: To be clear I'm not claiming to know WB's motivations for wanting a female director, just combating claims that they're necessarily "sexist" for doing so.

Look... women's issues aren't as much for Women as you think. OUtside certain biological issues, Men and Women face similar issues. Is paternal instinct any less or greater than maternal instinct. No. A father feels just as strongly connected to their child as the mother.. So unless the movie had a whole story arc devoted to Wonder Woman having her period... There's probably not going to be much in the way of WOmen's Issues.

Heck even more so for Wonder woman. You're talking about a character that grew up and developed in what amounts to a Mono-gendered society. Men were something they read about in books but never saw or experienced. She is a super powered amazon from Matriarchal society where men didn't exist ... WHat relation does her experience have to that of the average woman? Heck she has never experienced being looked down upon by the opposite gender and she has the strength to basically break the legs of anyone who would dare to be condescending to her.

 

[NoeL]

Look... women's issues aren't as much for Women as you think. OUtside certain biological issues, Men and Women face similar issues. Is paternal instinct any less or greater than maternal instinct. No. A father feels just as strongly connected to their child as the mother.. So unless the movie had a whole story arc devoted to Wonder Woman having her period... There's probably not going to be much in the way of WOmen's Issues.

I never claimed the issues of one sex were "less or greater" than the other, but there ARE differences between the sexes I think you're underestimating. To use the example of parenthood you gave, maternal instincts are generally about caring for and nurturing the child, making sure they're fed, clothed, rested etc. - focussing on the child's health - whereas paternal instincts are about instilling strength of character, life skills and moulding the child to hold your values - focussing on preparing the child for the future. Of course they both love and care for the child but they have different ways of looking after them. Because of this, a story about a single mother raising a child can be quite different to a story about a single father raising a child (for example, in media we often see mothers struggle with being overprotective and fathers struggle with bonding emotionally).

Heck even more so for Wonder woman. You're talking about a character that grew up and developed in what amounts to a Mono-gendered society. Men were something they read about in books but never saw or experienced. She is a super powered amazon from Matriarchal society where men didn't exist ... WHat relation does her experience have to that of the average woman? Heck she has never experienced being looked down upon by the opposite gender and she has the strength to basically break the legs of anyone who would dare to be condescending to her.

You can make that argument specifically for Wonder Woman, sure (though "women's issues" isn't confined to "being looked down upon by the opposite gender", if that's what you were getting at), but who knows to what degree WB is going to follow canon. I was mainly challenging your argument that them wanting a female director was "sexist" or unreasonable in any way.

Batman is not about paternity or custody issues.
Superman is not about prostate cancer.
Aquaman is not about how to use an underwater toilet.
So, why does Wonder Woman has to be about women's issues?

Assuming this was directed at me, I never said Wonder Woman was, or should be "about" women's issues - only that the studio might want a female director to "[speak] to" women's issues by having WW behave and be treated like a woman (as opposed to like how a man imagines a woman to be). Writing/portraying believable primary characters of the opposite sex is always going to be more difficult than writing characters of our own sex because we lack the life experience of seeing the world through that lens. It's why so often we see cliches like the fighting fuck toy from men or the impossibly good-looking, unreasonably devoted male love interest from women, and I can respect WB if they really want to avoid that with Wonder Woman - a character beloved by many who deserves to be written/portrayed with depth and respect.

 

[MonsterCrit]

I never claimed the issues of one sex were "less or greater" than the other, but there ARE differences between the sexes I think you're underestimating. To use the example of parenthood you gave, maternal instincts are generally about caring for and nurturing the child, making sure they're fed, clothed, rested etc. - focussing on the child's health - whereas paternal instincts are about instilling strength of character, life skills and moulding the child to hold your values - focussing on preparing the child for the future. Of course they both love and care for the child but they have different ways of looking after them. Because of this, a story about a single mother raising a child can be quite different to a story about a single father raising a child (for example, in media we often see mothers struggle with being overprotective and fathers struggle with bonding emotionally).

Yeah, any single fathers or mothers wanna weigh in on that. I know I didn't have problems with that, I know several people who have become fathers that are no less 'maternal' than their wives are by your definition. I think this is where the roles expected by society are being confused with the reality. You think. Mothers have an issue of being over protective?.... Oh no..no no, if anything Father's are more apt to be overprotective... especially of their daughters.

You can make that argument specifically for Wonder Woman, sure (though "women's issues" isn't confined to "being looked down upon by the opposite gender", if that's what you were getting at), but who knows to what degree WB is going to follow canon. I was mainly challenging your argument that them wanting a female director was "sexist" or unreasonable in any way.

My point is that basing the choice of director on gender as opposed to ability is sexist. It is assumed that a woman is more in touch with women's issues than a man. That's an assumption. It'd probably killy you know how much fiction targeted toward men is written by women and how much fiction geared towards women is acually written by men. Case in point, you'd be surprised or perhaps not to learn just how many male writers have worked on the Wonder Woman comic.s

Point is, ability, not gender-assumptions. If you are basing it on gender assumptions.. it is sexist. Even if you or agree with th action, we cannot blind ourselves to the truth that the action is still sexist.

 

[TallanKhan]

It saddens me to think we have come to a point where it is just accepted that someone has to belong to a particular gender to make a film staring someone of that same gender. I could understand (to a degree) if you were making a film that was specifically about a woman and how she related to the world around her that this could be of some benefit.

Saying Wonder Woman has to have a female director is as ludicrous as suggesting someone should have to be an orphan to direct Batman, or should have had to be a geek in highschool in order to direct Spiderman.

I'm all for more female directors, and if the director who so happens to be best qualified, and who's directorial style best suits the film happens to be a woman, great. However, if we want to promote equality, lets promote Meritocracy, where the best person for each job gets appointed to do that job.

 

[NoeL]

Yeah, any single fathers or mothers wanna weigh in on that. I know I didn't have problems with that, I know several people who have become fathers that are no less 'maternal' than their wives are by your definition. I think this is where the roles expected by society are being confused with the reality. You think. Mothers have an issue of being over protective?.... Oh no..no no, if anything Father's are more apt to be overprotective... especially of their daughters.

I'm not going to argue with you over anecdotes, and you provided an example of the differences I was referring to yourself in a father's overprotection of their daughter, effectively confirming the argument I was making. There's no point arguing further.

My point is that basing the choice of director on gender as opposed to ability is sexist. It is assumed that a woman is more in touch with women's issues than a man. That's an assumption.

No, it's common sense that women generally understand women's issues better than men... because they're women. This is where you're making yourself look unreasonable. Consider my earlier Mexican example: is it reasonable to suggest that some foreigners will understand Mexican culture better than an actual Mexican, absolutely - no question. Is it racist to focus on the Mexican talent when looking for a director for your Mexican culture movie? No, that's ridiculous. You're gonna have more luck finding what you're after by focusing on Mexicans, because they're Mexicans.

You're taking WB's statement that they're looking for a female director as "We will ONLY consider women for the role, we don't CARE how well a man demonstrates their understanding of women!" and frankly that just seems a bit silly. A more reasonable interpretation would be that they're looking at female directors because that's where they're more likely to find what they're looking for - and chances are they'll find it before needing to consider men. And that's not sexism.

Point is, ability, not gender-assumptions. If you are basing it on gender assumptions.. it is sexist. Even if you or agree with th action, we cannot blind ourselves to the truth that the action is still sexist.

I agree with you, but I don't believe it's a relevant point in this context. Since I can't find WB stating their motivations anywhere I can't say you're strawmanning, but it's like, my opinion man, that you're making an unreasonable assumption that they're prioritising gender over ability.

It saddens me to think we have come to a point where it is just accepted that someone has to belong to a particular gender to make a film staring someone of that same gender.

Except no one accepts that, or is even suggesting it. It saddens me people only seem to read in absolutes. When WB says they're looking for a female director for Wonder Woman people read "WONDER WOMAN MUST HAVE A FEMALE DIRECTOR! THAT IS PRIME DIRECTIVE NUMBER 1!" Just... chill for a second.

Saying Wonder Woman has to have a female director is as ludicrous as suggesting someone should have to be an orphan to direct Batman

But a competent director that was also an orphan could do a very genuine portrayal of that aspect of Batman, correct? And if you wanted to focus on Bruce Wayne's ophanhood in your movie a competent director that has experienced that first hand is likely to be of interest to you, right? And if someone said they were looking for an orphan to direct the next Batman you wouldn't cry foul that they were discriminating against directors that had living parents as a child, surely?

 

[TallanKhan]

It saddens me to think we have come to a point where it is just accepted that someone has to belong to a particular gender to make a film staring someone of that same gender.

Except no one accepts that, or is even suggesting it. It saddens me people only seem to read in absolutes. When WB says they're looking for a female director for Wonder Woman people read "WONDER WOMAN MUST HAVE A FEMALE DIRECTOR! THAT IS PRIME DIRECTIVE NUMBER 1!" Just... chill for a second.

Actually, if you say you are looking for someone of a particular gender to direct a film, you are being pretty damned absolute.

Saying Wonder Woman has to have a female director is as ludicrous as suggesting someone should have to be an orphan to direct Batman

But a competent director that was also an orphan could do a very genuine portrayal of that aspect of Batman, correct? And if you wanted to focus on Bruce Wayne's ophanhood in your movie a competent director that has experienced that first hand is likely to be of interest to you, right? And if someone said they were looking for an orphan to direct the next Batman you wouldn't cry foul that they were discriminating against directors that had living parents as a child, surely?

Discrimination doesn't come into it. It's about prioritisation. As for your specific example no I doubt that a director who had been orphaned would bring very much to a Batman production, because Batman is a fictional character, with a fictional psychology and someone who has suffered a similar loss is not by virtue of that experience going to be able to better relate to or better adapt that fiction into a compelling narrative. In the same way Wonder Woman is a fictional alien from a fictional society, having a female director is not going to automatically add anything.