World of Goo Experiences 90 Percent Piracy Rate
- Thread starter Nathan Meunier
- Start date
Wrong. They did it with IP addresses not connect and they actually got higher than 90% I read somewhere else, just lowered it a bit to make up for the dynamic IPsadamandkate said:
To tell the truth, I dont even know why some people bother making games for the computer when they get this. People moan if they put DRM in and pirate the game, the just take it if they dont. Also, to all those looking for a comparison there is an indy game called Riochet which had DRM in it and experienced slightly lower (1-3% lower) piracy.
I got a strong feeling that those 90% wouldn't even guy the game if pirating wasn't an option. I think the developers are realizing this. I am now currently interested in the game and will likely be trying the demo if there is one.
Edit: $20 is pretty steep for a Indie game, I might try to see if it will drop to 9.99 later on.
Edit: $20 is pretty steep for a Indie game, I might try to see if it will drop to 9.99 later on.
Looks like EA might... have been right *bites his own tongue off in shame*Software 'piracy' is not stealing. Use of software without a license does NOT deprive the licensing entity of revenue. The user's decision not to purchase the product is not theft. The argument that the user WOULD have purchased the product if they couldn't acquire it for free is not logical and is not supported by available data.
In real piracy the victim is deprived of use of the pirated materials. "Software Piracy" can only happen if the author loses access to the pirated software.
Software Vendors: you are not entitled to money from people who are entertained by your products.
To those who are "anti-piracy": If everyone is required to pay for the first copy of the software they download, shouldn't they also pay for the copy of the software they make every time the product is loaded into memory? Should users who play games on their friends' computers also be required to pay for their enjoyment? What about people who enjoy watching videos of people playing games? What about when people talk around the water cool about cool stuff that happened in games they own? Where do you draw the line? Why do you draw the line there?
I draw the line at "the victim must actually be harmed to call it a crime." Loss of 'potential' profit is not harm. They have no less after the event than they had before it.
In real piracy the victim is deprived of use of the pirated materials. "Software Piracy" can only happen if the author loses access to the pirated software.
Software Vendors: you are not entitled to money from people who are entertained by your products.
To those who are "anti-piracy": If everyone is required to pay for the first copy of the software they download, shouldn't they also pay for the copy of the software they make every time the product is loaded into memory? Should users who play games on their friends' computers also be required to pay for their enjoyment? What about people who enjoy watching videos of people playing games? What about when people talk around the water cool about cool stuff that happened in games they own? Where do you draw the line? Why do you draw the line there?
I draw the line at "the victim must actually be harmed to call it a crime." Loss of 'potential' profit is not harm. They have no less after the event than they had before it.
Well, dang, amazing. No pirate has ever sat down and downloaded to avoid paying the price. Of course that could never happen, aside from the fact that the same happens with DVD's and movies in general.rdeforest said:
Ahhhh, I see - people who put in vast amounts of time, energy, and money into a project and treat the end-users as human beings is underserving of finicial reward for there risk. By the same token, no-one should bother making games ever as they aren't entitled to be rewarded for doing so. Great!rdeforest said:
You seem to be confusing 'anti-piracy' with 'pro-DRM'. I'm not pro-DRM at all, but I am anti-piracy in general (in EA's case and DRM users in general, I'm more flexible as they assume we're all pirates anyway).rdeforest said:
-If everyone is required to pay for the first copy of the software they download, shouldn't they also pay for the copy of the software they make every time the product is loaded into memory?
----- No. The 'license'/permission you bought automatically includes the right/need to 'copy' into memory. Of course, I wouldn't put it past EA to charge for that.
- Should users who play games on their friends' computers also be required to pay for their enjoyment?
----- Yes, but if the guy bought World of Goo legally, they wouldn't download it from BitTorrent/etc.
- What about people who enjoy watching videos of people playing games?
----- The game and videos of the game are two wholy different things. After all, you can't influence a video through gameplay.
- What about when people talk around the water cool about cool stuff that happened in games they own?
----- See my reply to videos.
- Where do you draw the line? Why do you draw the line there?
----- Fairly obviously where the producer who created the game in the first place gets to benefit from its success of the game, as reward for the risk they took. I.e. Basic capitolism.
Theft is not a crime according to you, so long as no actual voilence is involved.rdeforest said:
That's so sad! I bought (yes BOUGHT) World of Goo about a month ago, and it's a great game, especially considering the fact that it's only $15 U.S. Games like this need to be supported and encouraged by the gaming community.
I came to this thread ready to condemn the developers for making up useless figures, but you have completely redirected my hatred- into your very soul.rdeforest said:
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
It's copyright violation. The theft angle is from a propaganda campaign to associate the activity with a central moral axiom of society.Khell_Sennet said:
Wow, two posts and already you're drawing lots of hate. Being a fan of irony, I'm waiting to hear word of something you spent years on crafting, pouring many resources into it, and then have it stolen. Like a computer.rdeforest said:
I love your idea of "The user's decision not to purchase the product is not theft" in regards to downloading it and playing it. As such I would like you to partake in a simple experiment:
-Go to your local supermarket and pick up some superfluous object (i.e. a can opener, notebook, etc.)
-Carry said item to front of the store and proceed through entryway.
-When stopped by clerk/staff/security proclaim "The user's decision not to purchase the product is not theft."
-Note reaction.
"Loss of 'potential' profit is not harm. They have no less after the event than they had before it."
Profit being defined as marginal gain AFTER cost of production, and given that production can run in the millions its a pretty hefty burden to bear. And remember, profit is the gain after cost of production.
Repeat it with me: Profit is gain after the cost of production.
And saying loss of profit is not harmful is not truthful in the least. EA reported a loss of rough $310 million, leading to the lay-off of somewhere between 500-600 people. Not super huge, until you remember there are many thousands of people trying to get into this career. Yet these people are stuck trying to find some other job to fulfil economic stresses like taxes and bills (a horror you yourself may one day face when you are a big boy.) This is also compounded with them saying they are moving jobs overseas for cheap foreign labor. So that's 500-600 jobs gone entirely. The side that is thirsting for irony, hopes that you are a potential cog in the game making machine and that you too will be laid off due to loss of profits and being forced to seek a minimum wage job during an economic recession. After all, you said yourself it is not harmful.
And one more time to pound it in: Profit is gain after the cost of production.
Now for the victim to be harmed for it to be a crime... In the U.S. of A. laws are now in place to pursue offenders for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Considering the world runs on money (and saying otherwise is just a foolish comfort) if you cannot make that hefty sum you're going to see a loss in wages and maybe even a seizing of your personal property. And don't think it stops with you. Should you evade this by means of...for example suicide, they can actually go after your next of kin. So now you've hurt yourself and immediate family. No harm done right?
DRM now that I think about it, I think DRM would have been a fantastic idea for those indie developed titles. Don't take the Secu-ROM bullshit of having limited installs for ONE COPY of the game! Have it so that it's UNLIMITED installs, and the DRM streams most of the data. if it's pirated and doesn't have the DRM files in the disc, they can't play that game (i.e: Pirated/torrent).
It's just because I want, and I am sure lots of people would, want to see those indie developers be recognized for a really great game. Like John Blow is for Braid.
It's just because I want, and I am sure lots of people would, want to see those indie developers be recognized for a really great game. Like John Blow is for Braid.
Good Grief.
Most of the people here should actually read the original rockpapershotgun article before posting.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/14/world-of-goo-vs-piracy/
I'm not advocating piracy, but their methodology is highly suspect. My ISP assigns me a new IP every week I believe. That means everytime I would post scores I would be considered unique. Not that it matters because when I finally do get around to buying and playing this game I'll be turning the score upload option off. This is something else they didn't take into account.
Most of the people here should actually read the original rockpapershotgun article before posting.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/14/world-of-goo-vs-piracy/
I'm not advocating piracy, but their methodology is highly suspect. My ISP assigns me a new IP every week I believe. That means everytime I would post scores I would be considered unique. Not that it matters because when I finally do get around to buying and playing this game I'll be turning the score upload option off. This is something else they didn't take into account.
His explanation is a little off, if there is a debt to be paid by someone, and that someone dies somehow, the debt is transferred to anyone who has claim to estate, which almost always includes next of kin.Rankao said:
Who said anything about explosives? What are you, a terrorist? Secondly, I was using suicide (the killing of one's self) as an example of a way to escape debt not to intentionally inflict harm on another body.Rankao said:
Thirdly, if you are identified as a bomber, via surveillance or other means, then I am sure your family will have bigger issues than finding a box of matches to serve as a coffin.
Considering how dubious their info collection methods are, is there anybody who has the slight suspicion that we should read this as "pirated copies reach 90% of retail copies" in the same way as the Chrysler building reaches 90% of the height of the Empire State building?
actually most cable isp's are mostly static, they say they are dynamic but they rarely change their ip address. dsl is mostly dynamicTheEggplant said:
as for the 90% rate they actually said it was 82% in another article
and their numbers are a bit off, might be a bit better if they used a cd key type system to figure out what is pirated and what isn't