World's First 3D Printer Rifle Goes Bang, Barrel Breaks

Nieroshai

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Ed130 said:
This is going to end well.

Considering that you still need ammo, the simple solution to this (assuming that a printable gun is feasible) is to require licences for ammo and gunpowder/primer.
Lead is not, nor likely ever will be, illegal. Gunpowder is makeable, not necessarily up to Winchester quality at home but at least stable, usable powder. All that leaves is casings and primer. Casings are reusable, and somebody's gonna come up with ways to make primer. That, or we'll start seeing muzzle-loader pepperbox pistols being printed, so that homemade old-style primers can be used.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Expect the next volume of the Anarchist's Cookbook to fly off the shelves the moment anything usable in making guns is banned and confiscated, or even licensed. The solution is not so simple. It also comes down to the age-old question I shall not weigh in on: Does universal gun ownership deter gun use best, or does restriction? If guns are a deterrent, more guns + more training equals a better deterrent. You can build a car, but you need a license to drive it. You likely won't get checked unless you violate the law, but only thieves and criminals and DUIs take that risk on purpose. On the other hand, if "guns kill people," we have the potential of having a lot of dangerous people saving up for 3d printers.

A friend of mine mentioned something, and I post it for thoughts: in China (and maybe other countries) a term of military service is mandatory, just like jury duty is in the US. While he didn't recommend this for the US, he did mention, why can't countries where guns are legal and personal defense is expected require mandatory training in basic weaponry? Safety training, proper-use training, the type of thing taught at Gunsite for those who know what that is or are willing to look it up. Just a question, and if anyone's willing to weigh in, I'd love the PMs.
 

Nieroshai

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Brian Tams said:
Shanahanapp said:
Clearly the world needs more guns that are easier to access. Goddamn, this type of thing pissed me off. Arrest this bastard, he's a psycho.
No, this is important. We needed to see the full capabilities of one of these 3D printers before deciding what to do about them. Simply arresting him because he took the step nobody else would is laughable at best, tyrannical at worst.
This, and if he should be arrested, the Slingshot Guy [http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave] should be arrested. He makes some crazy, verifiably dangerous stuff. Ridiculously AWESOME stuff, but what does a bureaucrat care about awesome?
 

Fluke

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CriticalMiss said:
I expect there will be an episode of CSI where the killer used a printed gun, if there hasn't already.
Yep, it was done in season 13 (the inventor is killed with it by someone who then steals his design).
 

mooncalf

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I think that law enforcement realise better than anyone that right now there are myriad quicker, easier ways to kill people, and that this particular misuse of a human's innate ability to make tools is 1) extraordinarily expensive and 2) obviously dangerous to the user. So the discussion of printable firearms must be an exercise of future-proofing, understanding the capacities of an emerging technology and gauging it's impact. What seems clear to me is that while it may now be increasingly *possible*, it's still plainly impractical.
 

uchytjes

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Ace Morologist said:
I foresee a whole lot of very angry people with poor judgment blowing their hands off with the poor-quality guns they printed off in a fit of pique.

--Morology!
But will we be better off for it? Sure, it'll be bad for people to get hurt, but they are the ones that did it themselves.
 

Shanahanapp

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Bruenin said:
Shanahanapp said:
Clearly the world needs more guns that are easier to access. Goddamn, this type of thing pissed me off. Arrest this bastard, he's a psycho.
off topic: I like your avatar : D

-----

On topic: whether it be this guy or someone else, given power people abuse them. Knowledge is power and as intelligent as people are there will be someone who comes up with these designs and no matter what as technology progress these will become more readily available. Aside from censorship or something else drastic I don't think there is anything you can stop this. It's kind of scary to think of how available these things could be and how devastating they could be with fully polished designs, but hopefully our ability to solve problems also progress to the point where we can find a solution to any problems that might arise from this.

It's also really late so I have no clue if anything i'm saying makes sense :3
Thanks!
I know it can't really be stopped but I hope governments get on this quickly and start setting barriers to access. I feel like having free guns available to everyone like some people want to do is insanely dangerous.

Brian Tams said:
Shanahanapp said:
Clearly the world needs more guns that are easier to access. Goddamn, this type of thing pissed me off. Arrest this bastard, he's a psycho.
No, this is important. We needed to see the full capabilities of one of these 3D printers before deciding what to do about them. Simply arresting him because he took the step nobody else would is laughable at best, tyrannical at worst.
Nah, I was exaggerating when I said arrest him, but I do find this situation worrying. I find it bizarre that there are still people who believe that everyone should have guns as easily as possible.
 

CriticalMiss

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Fluke said:
CriticalMiss said:
I expect there will be an episode of CSI where the killer used a printed gun, if there hasn't already.
Yep, it was done in season 13 (the inventor is killed with it by someone who then steals his design).
Do you remember the name of the episode? I don't remember seeing anything like that, unless it was in CSI: Pretty Beach People or CSI: Noo Yoik.
 

xPixelatedx

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Chinchama said:
Shanahanapp said:
Chinchama said:
Shanahanapp said:
Clearly the world needs more guns that are easier to access. Goddamn, this type of thing pissed me off. Arrest this bastard, he's a psycho.
He is a psycho...says the unassuming furry....
Well in my opinion anyone who thinks it's a good idea to give free guns to anyone is a bit of a psycho, yeah. In my opinion an ideal world would have no guns.
I think guns are one of the greatest signs of equality. If there was a world with no guns, the meek would be preyed upon by those physically strong. Having a gun is a great equalizer. It can make an 8 year girl just as dangerous as a 28 yr old 140 MMA fighter.

People need to have a sense of personal responsibility of what is right and what is wrong. Guns are not the problem, it is the mental state of the general population that is the problem.
It can make an 8 year girl just as dangerous as a 28 yr old 140 MMA fighter? You realize you just pointed out why we have school massacres.

Guns are not the problem, it is the mental state of the general population that is the problem.
I don't think that same '8 year girl' could massacre the same school with a knife, regardless of how crazy she is. Guns do kill people, because most of the gun deaths that take place in the US wouldn't happen by any other means if the aggressors didn't have a magic 'kill the person in front of me' button. How many drunken fist fights would have just ended with bruises? How many emotionally disturbed children might have only been able to kill one, two or no people before being stopped on their rampages? I mean, there is a reason why the US is famous for the school shootings. It's not because our children are anymore disturbed then other children of the rest of the world. It's because we are allowing easy access to an instrument that most other children aren't given access to.

Pretty sure guns deserve every bit the rep they get.
 

Shanahanapp

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xPixelatedx said:
It can make an 8 year girl just as dangerous as a 28 yr old 140 MMA fighter? You realize you just pointed out why we have school massacres.

Guns are not the problem, it is the mental state of the general population that is the problem.
I don't think that same '8 year girl' could massacre the same school with a knife, regardless of how crazy she is. Guns do kill people, because most of the gun deaths that take place in the US wouldn't happen by any other means if the aggressors didn't have a magic 'kill the person in front of me' button. How many drunken fist fights would have just ended with bruises? How many emotionally disturbed children might have only been able to kill one, two or no people before being stopped on their rampages? I mean, there is a reason why the US is famous for the school shootings. It's not because our children are anymore disturbed then other children of the rest of the world. It's because we are allowing easy access to an instrument that most other children aren't given access to.

Pretty sure guns deserve every bit the rep they get.
Exactly this.

People talk about needing guns to protect themselves. But protect against what? People with other guns. I'll never understand why a civilian feels they need guns so badly, nor why it's a "right". Aren't the police and stuff meant to protect you?
 

CM156_v1legacy

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Shanahanapp said:
Aren't the police and stuff meant to protect you?
I had a few posts I wanted to make in response to this

On the one hand, I could post that image I have of victims of police abuse with the tagline that said basically what you did

On the other, I could point out that law enforcement lives far away from some people. For me, it's somewhat close. 3-4 minutes. For others, they live in rural areas where cops are more than 10 minutes away

Furthermore, I could have pointed out that this issue has been settled by the courts. The supreme have twice ruled you have the right to own firearms for traditionally lawful purposes, including self defense within the home. Before you start trying to say that that only applies to militias, this was also ruled against. Multiple states, including my own, have ruled that citizens have the right to be armed, at the least within their home, which I am.

Furthermore, police are not legally liable for your safety if you're a US citizen. Castle Rock v. Gonzales and Warren vs DC have both established this. You can say "Oh, but that's wrong", but it's not changing unless the court reverses the precedent (very unlikely) or a constitutional amendment is passed (also very unlikely). So to answer your question, no. Police aren't there to keep you safe, only to enforce laws.

Now, why do I own guns? Self defense, mostly home defense. 'Tis true I live in a very safe suburb area. There's little crime, that much is certain. But there's always the possibility that I'd need it. And that's why. It's a moral decision, if you're willing to kill someone if you needed to, in order to protect yourself from bodily harm or even death. Some people can't accept that. I can.

Now, I have locked doors, a dog, and a very loud alarm system. And my house can be well lit very quickly, so you can't accuse me of a "shoot the milkman who decided to break into" situation. You could try to spin a story of infinite "what ifs" but I'd say it's fair to assume someone in your house unlawfully seeks to commit another unlawful (likely felonious) act. Were someone to break into my home, they'd likely flee. If this rare even were to happen, simply shouting at them to get out while I point a gun would be sufficient to make them leave. But if they're remaining there, I would reason they're not there to steal something from me, which leaves few other options. Could I shoot them then, if they made any motion I viewed as threatening, such as reaching in a way that could be for a weapon? Yes. Morally, I can live with that. The laws of my state are abundantly clear: If someone broke in and are now dead on the floor, you're assumed to have acted in self defense and are free from criminal and (very importantly) civil liability. I don't want to ever be in this situation, but should it come to that, I've made up my mind that I would rather call the cops telling them that there's a dying man on my floor, bleeding out into my carpet than telling them I'm hiding in my closet as a strange man goes through my house with unknown intent. If you disagree, that's fine by me. You are not required to own guns. I would never demand people who don't want guns to have to own them.

Before anyone suggests simply calling the cops, I'd remind them of two important things. One: In my state, cops responding to a hot break in (one which the resident is at home), enter with their guns drawn. Either I can have guns or I can call people with guns into the situation. Secondly, it's not a risk I'm willing to take. Calculated risks with reward I'm willing to take on occasion, but not these. There is no benefit to me.

In closing I'd like to say that I would like to make my position clear. I am never going to give up my second amendment rights any more than I am going to give up my first amendment rights. Never. And I am not articulate enough to make it clear how strongly I, and my peers, feel regarding gun rights.

EDIT: I realize that that point went off topic a bit, into the gun control debate, but I felt these lingering questions needed to be clearly answered

As for the 3D gun: No comment. Although it does prove a point I've long said to proponents of gun control laws: How do you mean to enforce this?
 

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CriticalMiss said:
I expect there will be an episode of CSI where the killer used a printed gun, if there hasn't already.

I'm also not entirely sure why this would be a good thing given human nature and the abilities of the interwebs.
Yeah, I foresee its only a matter of time until someone tries to use one of these to take a pot-shot at a politician or someone else who's pissed him off.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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omega 616 said:
On topic. I imagine this being a "a few bad apples" scenario, drug lords buy these printers and gangs are now producing throw away weapons that can't be traced ...

Already enough guns killing people, don't need any more.
That would actually be great. Enough of gang members could injure themselves with these printed guns that it would limit their manpower pretty severely for a while.

The materials these printed guns are made out of just aren't strong enough to contain the pressures necessary for a functional firearm. If a bunch of idiots want to remove themselves from the gene pool by building these then more power to them.
 

The Funslinger

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AntiChri5 said:
The ability to cheaply and quickly produce untraceable disposable firearms using an item for which there are thousands of legitimate uses.

Yeah, this is exactly what humanity needs.
I'm pro-gun and pro-carrying licenses myself, but I agree with this sarcastically made remark. At least actual firearms and suchlike can be registered and traced, and aren't too easily disposed of.

Unless we somehow end up with something as resource draining as the apex of WW2 going on for an incredibly long time, there's really no need for shit like this.
 

Strazdas

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AntiChri5 said:
The ability to cheaply and quickly produce untraceable disposable firearms using an item for which there are thousands of legitimate uses.

Yeah, this is exactly what humanity needs.
it already does. Its called smelting.

MinionJoe said:
3D printer resin is reported to have a tensile strength similar to ABS plastic, which is rated at 40 MPa UTS.

Steel has an ultimate tensile strength in excess of 400 MPa depending on the grade and application.

So, really, unless your printed barrel is 10 times thicker than a steel barrel you can fuck right off and keep your worthless/dangerous design files to your self.
They maded a cannon out of ducktape [www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gio6k9KycM], just because steep has high pressure resistances does not mean other substances cant handle it.
 

FoolKiller

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Ed130 said:
This is going to end well.

Considering that you still need ammo, the simple solution to this (assuming that a printable gun is feasible) is to require licences for ammo and gunpowder/primer.
I think a comedian made the best point. Charge $5000 per bullet. That way if you really want to kill someone you would have to save for it.
 

Strazdas

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MinionJoe said:
But I saw that episode of Mythbusters too. While they did build a cannon solely out of duct tape, they still only managed to fire it once before it became unusable. Which does nothing to promote the argument that 3D printed weaponry is safe and effective.

CanadianGunNut has already shown that it's possible to print a 3D gun and have it fire one bullet down range before self-destructing. It would have been nice if he had shown whether it actually hit the test target or not.

I'm just saying 3D printers are not best way to make safe and effective weapons. Once these designers can get multiple shots out of the same components, have those shots in a reasonable grouping, and have no catastrophic structural fatigue in the weapon, then maybe they'll have something.

But I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that they won't be able to do so using the currently available line of 3d printer resins. It simply does not have the material strength (or elasticity) necessary to duplicate the effectiveness of even the zip guns or Sten guns of WWII. And those weapons were made using 60 year old technology.
Are you sure you remember it correctly? They shot it multiple times, till eventually the non-ducktape parts gave up (the ductape held) and they decided its not safe enough, altrough likely it would ahve fired a couple mroe times. granted, the ball only went half the fistance, but a cannon ball going at that speed half or full power it would go though you without slowing down were you in the way.

Of course 3D printers a they are not is not the best or safest way to make weapons. neither is a ductape cannon. but it is a possible way, and criminals often ignore safety (for example those meth lab people who breathe the fumes in whole day long).
This is a prototype. most prototypes of guns arent very safe or reliable. thats why its a prototype - it still gets improved. the first step is taken however, and its likely only a matter of time.
you know, there is liquid wood, which is storng enough and does fit in 3d printers we have currently. there is many diferent kind of plastics, some of them as strong as metal, and while ranted only few 3d printers accept those now, 3d printers themselves are new and upcoming technology. saying that they will never do that is like saying 20 years ago "Well this nintendo 64 cant pull 20.000 polygons graphics, so no computer ever will".
Now i dont kow about Sten guns, as i am not a "GunNut" (to steal a nickname), it is likely they are much easier alternative now, does not mean 3d printers got no potential.
 

Strazdas

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MinionJoe said:
Strazdas said:
Are you sure you remember it correctly? They shot it multiple times, till eventually the non-ducktape parts gave up (the ductape held) and they decided its not safe enough, altrough likely it would ahve fired a couple mroe times. granted, the ball only went half the fistance, but a cannon ball going at that speed half or full power it would go though you without slowing down were you in the way.
I could very easily be wrong. After prodding my brain a bit, I may actually be thinking of their leather cannon instead of the duct tape cannon. My apologies. I'll concede the point because you're more than likely correct. In my defense, Adam and Jamie have created a LOT of cannons and they do tend to fail most spectacularly. :D
Fair enough. Leather cannon did indeed fail after one shot. The wooden cannon though worked quite nicely, consdiering it was a real weapon used by swedes.