Worried About Dark Souls 2

[Isra]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole? The level design is solid but hardly anything to gasp at.

I mean, I guess it's possible you've played like...three games. That would also explain this reaction.

The level design in Dark Souls is pretty unique. Obviously it's subjective as to whether you like it or not, but I don't see many games out there that, at the same time as being linear, also offer you many different routes through & to certain areas. It was very web-like and occasionally labyrinthine for a game that felt like a corridor run. Definitely one of the more interesting approaches to level design that I've seen, and I've probably played way more games than is healthy. Do I think it is unparallelled work of pure genius? Even as a big dark souls fan: No. It was good, and it was unique, but my mind was not utterly blown.

And I get that it seems like the 'Souls fanclub' comes across pretty smarmy when they're talking about features that not everyone thinks are a good thing. When someone endlessly praises a game that I thought was mediocre and they tell me I just don't understand, well, I kinda feel like slapping them too.

 

[Ishal]

The "Lone Traveler" aspect was so cool, allowing you to warp from the start all but confirms my suspicions. They don't care about creating an intimate relationship between the world and the player anymore, mark my words it is the beginning of the checklistification of dark souls. Such a bullshit move.

Bullshit.

The warping is a choice. You want to opt out, you can. I won't mark your words because neither of us have played the game yet and I despise "it's the beginning of the end!!11!1" talk. All evidence points to them taking care in designing the world.

 

[gavinmcinns]

The first time you enter the bell tower and take the elevator down is a wow moment, finding shortcuts to the valley of drakes, the deep parts of new londo, defeating the undead dragon for a shorter path to blighttown, entire hidden areas like ash lake that you can miss entirely. I've never seen a game do it like this, if you're going to call it hyperbole than at least make the effort to cite a few examples.

How am I supposed to post examples when I still have no idea why you think it's so revolutionary?

"Wow moments", short cuts and optional areas. Be still my heart. WHAT OTHER GAME HAS DONE SUCH THINGS?

As of late, none. Everything is cookie cutter formulaic garbage save a very few rare cases, all of which come from the indie and mid tier development. Triple A is a hopeless wasteland littered with opinionated focus group retards and life size Commander Sheperd cutouts from feckless hundred million dollar marketing campaigns.

 

[gavinmcinns]

The "Lone Traveler" aspect was so cool, allowing you to warp from the start all but confirms my suspicions. They don't care about creating an intimate relationship between the world and the player anymore, mark my words it is the beginning of the checklistification of dark souls. Such a bullshit move.

Bullshit.

The warping is a choice. You want to opt out, you can. I won't mark your words because neither of us have played the game yet and I despise "it's the beginning of the end!!11!1" talk. All evidence points to them taking care in designing the world.

I hate this argument. It's not a choice, they put it in the game, and regardless of their intentions that is what they designed the game around. It's the same argument people used for splinter cell when they gutted the stealth from that game and turned it into a balls to the walls steven segal movie

 

[Ishal]

I hate this argument. It's not a choice, they put it in the game, and regardless of their intentions that is what they designed the game around.

Too bad. This is what they designed the game around? Evidence please. But you'll have hard time finding any since the game isn't even released yet. As long as the world is still interconnected, you can be the lone traveler that you always wanted to be. To say that they don't care about the world anymore is a bold claim, but an ignorant one.

It's the same argument people used for splinter cell when they gutted the stealth from that game and turned it into a balls to the walls steven segal movie

ALL GAMES ARE TURNING INTO NOT GAMES! NO! C'mon, this is Dark Souls we're talking about here. The game won't be altogether like DKS I, and I'm fine with that. The game had some major issues, same with Demon's Souls. But hey, if you want to stand around preaching the beginning of the end of the Souls series. Who am I to stop you? However, I do suggest heading over to /v/ where you'll at least have company.

 

[Dandark]

The "Lone Traveler" aspect was so cool, allowing you to warp from the start all but confirms my suspicions. They don't care about creating an intimate relationship between the world and the player anymore, mark my words it is the beginning of the checklistification of dark souls. Such a bullshit move.

Bullshit.

The warping is a choice. You want to opt out, you can. I won't mark your words because neither of us have played the game yet and I despise "it's the beginning of the end!!11!1" talk. All evidence points to them taking care in designing the world.

I hate this argument. It's not a choice, they put it in the game, and regardless of their intentions that is what they designed the game around. It's the same argument people used for splinter cell when they gutted the stealth from that game and turned it into a balls to the walls steven segal movie

I see where your coming from but it really isn't that big of a deal. Assuming they still had the same level design, which I assume you did as you need to light the bonfires before travelling to them so you still need to explore the world, then you can just not use the warp feature. I agree that it may have been better to only have some bonfires warpable as in the first game but this could turn out fine.

It just makes it quicker for others to get around early game rather than not being able to quickly move around the world until you get the lord vessel.

Now could it be a sign of them "Casualizing"(Im tired and wanted to make up a word, please don't hurt me) it? Maybe but I doubt it. From what I have seen and heard its a great souls game you need not worry. I'd recommend trying not to make too many sweeping judgements about it until you play it.

 

[gavinmcinns]

I see where your coming from but it really isn't that big of a deal. Assuming they still had the same level design, which I assume you did as you need to light the bonfires before travelling to them so you still need to explore the world, then you can just not use the warp feature. I agree that it may have been better to only have some bonfires warpable as in the first game but this could turn out fine.

It just makes it quicker for others to get around early game rather than not being able to quickly move around the world until you get the lord vessel.

Now could it be a sign of them "Casualizing"(Im tired and wanted to make up a word, please don't hurt me) it? Maybe but I doubt it. From what I have seen and heard its a great souls game you need not worry. I'd recommend trying not to make too many sweeping judgements about it until you play it.

I used to be more "cautiously optimistic" about these kinds of reveals but I've been burned every single time, especially with big developers like Bioware and Blizzard and EA and Ubisoft (and square and capcom and Sega, who now owns atlus).

The instant warp unlock is a very bad sign to me because it means that shortcuts would be totally meaningless, why even bother designing them when you have this superpower? Insta warp is for games that are so big that they have to reuse textures and models for 90% of the game and everything just looks samey and generic after a few hours, like skyrim.

Also, Doesn't the boss from the demo worry you? It seemed like such a gimmick, it was just lazy if you ask me. Copy the boss from majoras mask and ctrlc ctrlv some bonewheels in there. Just lame.

 

[hermes]

Are we really going there? Because the level design in Demon's Souls was pretty awful. Confusing when good, and straight horrible when bad. There are levels that are just levels upon levels and they all look the same (world 3); on the other hand, there are levels that, combined with the weird camera and unreliable locking, are simply too frustrating to navigate... piles of wood planks among oceans of dark poisonous liquid (world 5).

Also, most of the settings are hardly inspired. Other than the nexus, most of the levels run with a few fantasy settings.

I haven't played Dark Souls, so I can't tell if they improved on it. But I don't think its fair to compare a yet unreleased game with a game that didn't set the bar so high.

 

[Phasmal]

If you're mad they're putting in insta-warp, don't freaking use it.
You'll still have to unlock those bonfires anyway, right? So the world WILL be interconnected.
And while I personally liked the design and flow of the world in Dark Souls, I thought it was awkward at times because.. well that was the point.

I dunno.
I love Dark Souls, but other fans sometimes make me embarrassed to love it.

Can we not just wait til it's out and see if it's still the same controller-snapping frustration fun before we start declaring that the end is nigh?

 

[Kopikatsu]

I see where your coming from but it really isn't that big of a deal. Assuming they still had the same level design, which I assume you did as you need to light the bonfires before travelling to them so you still need to explore the world, then you can just not use the warp feature. I agree that it may have been better to only have some bonfires warpable as in the first game but this could turn out fine.

It just makes it quicker for others to get around early game rather than not being able to quickly move around the world until you get the lord vessel.

Now could it be a sign of them "Casualizing"(Im tired and wanted to make up a word, please don't hurt me) it? Maybe but I doubt it. From what I have seen and heard its a great souls game you need not worry. I'd recommend trying not to make too many sweeping judgements about it until you play it.

I used to be more "cautiously optimistic" about these kinds of reveals but I've been burned every single time, especially with big developers like Bioware and Blizzard and EA and Ubisoft (and square and capcom and Sega, who now owns atlus).

The instant warp unlock is a very bad sign to me because it means that shortcuts would be totally meaningless, why even bother designing them when you have this superpower? Insta warp is for games that are so big that they have to reuse textures and models for 90% of the game and everything just looks samey and generic after a few hours, like skyrim.

Also, Doesn't the boss from the demo worry you? It seemed like such a gimmick, it was just lazy if you ask me. Copy the boss from majoras mask and ctrlc ctrlv some bonewheels in there. Just lame.

Forward shortcuts still have plenty of use (Like the Chaos Servant's path from Queelag's Domain to Lost Izalith), and I can see shortcuts back to the hub being useful between a long stretch without a bonfire or if the warping function is limited in some way.

 

[Carnagath]

I'm not worried about the level design personally, Dark Souls's level design was fine for me and the sequel looks on par. What I'm worried about is that there are a ton of weapons as preorder bonuses on Steam, and weapons are... kinda important in Dark Souls, you know... If they are not starting-grade weapons and give any sort of progression advantage, they really can go fuck themselves with this. Actually, they can go fuck themselves right now. I'm not going to preorder the game, and with this dickery I'm not even going to buy it at full price. If the weapons are there just to look cool, then I will get it at 75% off whenever that is. If they are actually strong, I will... well, not pay for the game at all.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I'm not worried about the level design personally, Dark Souls's level design was fine for me and the sequel looks on par. What I'm worried about is that there are a ton of weapons as preorder bonuses on Steam, and weapons are... kinda important in Dark Souls, you know... If they are not starting-grade weapons and give any sort of progression advantage, they really can go fuck themselves with this. Actually, they can go fuck themselves right now. I'm not going to preorder the game, and with this dickery I'm not even going to buy it at full price. If the weapons are there just to look cool, then I will get it at 75% off whenever that is. If they are actually strong, I will... well, not pay for the game at all.

It says 'early access to 10 weapons'. Early access being the key phrase.

I don't see what the big deal is regardless. You could get the Drake Sword shortly after starting DS1 proper and ruin yourself for a most of the game anyway.

 

[Dandark]

I see where your coming from but it really isn't that big of a deal. Assuming they still had the same level design, which I assume you did as you need to light the bonfires before travelling to them so you still need to explore the world, then you can just not use the warp feature. I agree that it may have been better to only have some bonfires warpable as in the first game but this could turn out fine.

It just makes it quicker for others to get around early game rather than not being able to quickly move around the world until you get the lord vessel.

Now could it be a sign of them "Casualizing"(Im tired and wanted to make up a word, please don't hurt me) it? Maybe but I doubt it. From what I have seen and heard its a great souls game you need not worry. I'd recommend trying not to make too many sweeping judgements about it until you play it.

I used to be more "cautiously optimistic" about these kinds of reveals but I've been burned every single time, especially with big developers like Bioware and Blizzard and EA and Ubisoft (and square and capcom and Sega, who now owns atlus).

The instant warp unlock is a very bad sign to me because it means that shortcuts would be totally meaningless, why even bother designing them when you have this superpower? Insta warp is for games that are so big that they have to reuse textures and models for 90% of the game and everything just looks samey and generic after a few hours, like skyrim.

Also, Doesn't the boss from the demo worry you? It seemed like such a gimmick, it was just lazy if you ask me. Copy the boss from majoras mask and ctrlc ctrlv some bonewheels in there. Just lame.

The mirror knight?
I loved the idea of the mirror knight. Sure he has a gimmick but big deal. It looked like the iron golem fight except now he can summon invaders. I feel they put him in their to show off the new kind of boss fight you can get invaded in and I thought it looked great.

I understand getting burned by games you were looking forward too but this one actually looks to be doing pretty well so im hopeful for this as opposed to being horrified and filled with worry like I am for DA:I

 

[MrBaskerville]

People should have a little faith, From Software have been making these games since the ps1, i wouldn't be concerned that they would suddenly "sell out" or whatever. Warping bonfires is probably just something they thought would fit into the game, and i have faith that it will make sense when we see it in action.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

The "Lone Traveler" aspect was so cool, allowing you to warp from the start all but confirms my suspicions. They don't care about creating an intimate relationship between the world and the player anymore, mark my words it is the beginning of the checklistification of dark souls. Such a bullshit move.

Warping from the beginning is not checklistification. It's an extension of the warping in Demon's Souls, and the connection was still felt. It's a matter of letting the character feel their progress without resorting to repetition.

I am equally worried about how they are going to treat the lore and atmosphere, but the warping from the beginning does not worry me in the slightest.

I don't see what the big deal is regardless. You could get the Drake Sword shortly after starting DS1 proper and ruin yourself for a most of the game anyway.

I think they're more worried about the online aspect...In which case, they could just play offline till they get good gear. I still agree that it's a bullshit move though.

I've been to multiple MMO sites and seen what is (imo) the worst of it. I just don't see the Dark Souls fanatics any differently than I see the Titanfall ones, or the Secret World ones, or the GW2 ones, etc.

Bioware was just an example since I used to be one not too long ago. "No other game has the character depth that is found in KOTOR or ME." is something I might have said. But that was before I played Planescape: Torment

This guy gets it.