Worst case of good writing going south within moments

[hermes]

To go for a recent movie, the ending of Bridge of Spies is really bad. Of course, spoilers follow... The entire arc is about a small man that sticks to his convictions even when his country, his colleagues and even his family think he is wrong. They are not really wrong, either. All of them has pretty understandable reasons to believe he is being stubborn and naive. It is one of the points of the entire movie. He is in a position of absolute lack of power. He goes to hell and back and his family doesn't even know about it, he convinces them that he was on a fishing trip. If the film ended there, with him being an unsung hero, it would have been much better.

Then the world finds out about it, and he gets recognition in the most unrealistic way posible. Out of the dozens of people involved in the operation and without even naming the hostages like it was secondary information, the president of the United States singles him out by calling him by name in national television and dedicating an entire paragraph of his announcement to point out how he was the reason the entire thing worked, and his courage, bravery and convictions are a pride to the american people, so that his wife and small child could see it and admite him for it. Even the old lady that scorned at him in the train now sees him with respect and admiration (we know its the same person because it is seated on the same seat, and dressed the same way).

I was not a fan of how they handled the USSR spy either. They handled the entire scene to make it look like his government was ashamed of him, and was going to execute him as soon as possible for the crime of being caught (because god forgive they portrait soviet Russia as anything but a corrupt and heartless police state), and then they put a small line before the credits to indicate that, actually, he returned to his family and lived and served for several decades. If they knew about it, why bother making the scene to emphasize that a) the American institutions are flawed but better than the alternative and b) his role is, in the end, a small one, because he can't save everyone; if they were going to refute both points less than 10 minutes later?

 

[HybridChangeling]

The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It started OK, sure I disliked the whole dynamic with Malcolm and his daughter, and it had some early cheesy moments, but I felt hope. Then Vince Vaughn's character came on screen. He was everything this film didn't need, and everything that was wrong with it (until other things started popping up that just made me lose all hope).
He was a environmentalist hired by Hammond to help preserve the dinosaurs and keep the team safe. So here is what this "experienced environmentalist" does to help the dinosaurs and people in the film.

-He tracks down the hunter camp and releases all the dangerous dinosaurs into the camp with tons of humans and guns, endangering both the dinosaurs and the humans.
-He steals the T-Rex baby and takes it back to the camp, endangering the humans of both camps, causing the T-Rex's territory to expand.
-He steals the bullets from the main hunters gun, while that character is still stuck on dino murder island, and as a result, allows InGen to capture the Rex alive, therefore being one of the events to cause the San Diego dinosaur incident through cause and effect. Which, stop me if you heard this before, endangers humans and the dinosaurs, and causes so much bad PR that there is no way humanity would just let all the possibly dangerous dinosaurs live!

 

[Erttheking]

I'm of the, I assume unpopular, opinion that the end of the Departed is a dick slap to the face. It's like the writers saying "I want a sad ending. We didn't build up to that? Fuck you, rocks fall everyone dies."

 

[DrownedAmmet]

I think maybe halfway through a book called The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss there was just a point where the main character went full overpowered power fantasy character. I mean he was a bit Gary Stu-ish in the first book (The Name of the Wind) and stuff because he's literally the best at everything but there are some interesting flaws, mostly in his mindset in that in his mind, he must look perfect at any cost even when there isn't really any harm in showing a few mistakes here and there.

Like not presenting himself as perfection incarnate just never enters his mind, I think that's pretty neat seeing the lengths a man can go too to look perfect and obviously, stretching himself out to look perfect often makes even more problems for him.

Then out of nowhere, y'know guys, we gotta make him get kidnapped by a sex fairy and get super good at pleasing women because... reasons? Then later he wipes a camp of hardened mercenaries single handedly.

Yeah, Kvothe slipped off the edge of the overpowered but relativity relatable side of the knife into the just plain bullshit.

This so much. Being awkward around women was basically one of the very few flaws the character had and then he gets turned into Mr. Sex-God, Superseducer. It's just so stupid.
Now all that's left basically for him to turn into the worlds best accountant and mathmatician, thats flawless in managing his money and he's officially without flaws.

I had the same reaction at those exact spots. I could buy him being the best singer ever and being the best at magic, and being the youngest person at magic-school gave him some interesting character bits
But holy shit did he have to learn to be a super sex ninja? Was that so important to spend a thousand fucking pages on? I love the books but they move waay too slowly when he focuses on that stuff and we learn very little about the actual main plot. (Like why are we 2 books into the "Kingkiller Chronicles" and we haven't even met a King yet, much less seen one killed)

 

[The Raw Shark]

I'm of the, I assume unpopular, opinion that the end of the Departed is a dick slap to the face. It's like the writers saying "I want a sad ending. We didn't build up to that? Fuck you, rocks fall everyone dies."

This so much. I was just watching the movie engrossed in its story and then -BANG- -BANG- no more protagonists. Seriously it just made the whole thing feel so God damn abrupt I felt like I almost hit a wall flying out of my seat in annoyance.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Condemned 2: Bloodshot was extremely guilty of this.

It was real tense, building up to something creepy and dramatic. But then it suddenly went "And then SONIC SUPERPOWERS PEWPEWPEW!!!"

I'm of the, I assume unpopular, opinion that the end of the Departed is a dick slap to the face. It's like the writers saying "I want a sad ending. We didn't build up to that? Fuck you, rocks fall everyone dies."

Really? I always felt like that shit was completely and absolutely inevitable. A deliciously nihilistic ending, not at all surprising to me considering how entwined the criminals and cops were in that film.

I think maybe halfway through a book called The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss there was just a point where the main character went full overpowered power fantasy character.

The Fae sex thing wasn't even the worst bit. You know what was worse? The fffffucking Ademre part.

I didn't notice as much during my first reading because I was way too enamored with the world building and style of prose, which indeed is why I too still recommend those books wholeheartedly. But during my second reading the Ademre part especially stood out like a sore freakin' thumb. At least the Fae thing was blind luck and the bandit camp thing was done with planning and a team. The whole sword fighting spiel was just pure character-masturbation.

What kept it bearable is how terribly he got his ass handed to him during the present-day bits. No matter how awesome he was in his retelling of his past, at least you know he's going to get fucked over.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

What kept it bearable is how terribly he got his ass handed to him during the present-day bits. No matter how awesome he was in his retelling of his past, at least you know he's going to get fucked over.

Pretty much this. But yeah, fuck the Ademre and their warrior poet superiority sideways. Worst thing in both books, easily.

Also: I really liked the Faelurian bits. You should reread it, just for her dialogue.

Spoiler

Protip: all of it is in rhyme

Life Is Strange. Kind of fell apart in the last few minutes in particular. I mean, the whole final episode was rushed but Life Is Strange is more sloppy and rushed with its ending than Mass Effect 3 is. Its not as bad as that ending, but its probably the second-worst ending in gaming I've encountered.

Pretty much this, and I don't understand why. They had such an good setup, but the entire last episode is just kind of shit.

Spoiler

I think they should've just expanded on the headaches/nosebleeds by making time travelling literally fuck up her brain.

On a similar note: Remember Me (the film, not the book). It's quite well acted, with Pattinson more or less playing himself, and it's quite okay for a romantic film. But then the last 10 minutes happens for... some reason.


EDIT:
Interstellar. We all know which scene I mean.

 

[lacktheknack]

I really enjoyed Indigo Prophecy... until the protagonist fell off a roller coaster. Literally.

Myst IV had a pretty interesting narrative as well... and then we got Peter Gabriel voicing the spirit guide in alternate dream reality which had NO place in the mythos.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Myst IV had a pretty interesting narrative as well... and then we got Peter Gabriel voicing the spirit guide in alternate dream reality which had NO place in the mythos.

With literally just this to go on, I imagine the spirit guide being a flower talking insanely.

 

[lacktheknack]

Myst IV had a pretty interesting narrative as well... and then we got Peter Gabriel voicing the spirit guide in alternate dream reality which had NO place in the mythos.

With literally just this to go on, I imagine the spirit guide being a flower talking insanely.

It was actually a floating face talking with great insufferable serenity.

...to a Peter Gabriel song.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Myst IV had a pretty interesting narrative as well... and then we got Peter Gabriel voicing the spirit guide in alternate dream reality which had NO place in the mythos.

With literally just this to go on, I imagine the spirit guide being a flower talking insanely.

It was actually a floating face talking with great insufferable serenity.

...to a Peter Gabriel song.

Oh god... Post-Genesis Peter Gabriel is almost as bad as post-Gabriel Genesis....

 

[EdwardOrchard]

I think maybe halfway through a book called The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss there was just a point where the main character went full overpowered power fantasy character. I mean he was a bit Gary Stu-ish in the first book (The Name of the Wind) and stuff because he's literally the best at everything but there are some interesting flaws, mostly in his mindset in that in his mind, he must look perfect at any cost even when there isn't really any harm in showing a few mistakes here and there.

I agree. I really liked the first book, even though as you say, the character was just a little too perfect. The problem for me, was that I thought there might be a point to his almost outlandishly over-the-top perfectness. As in, the story revolves around him telling his tale at his tavern, and its clear he's going to embellish his story. Maybe because he just needs everybody around him to believe he's amazing, but, why? There doesn't seem to be any point to it. The first book left me thinking they were going to explore that side of his character, but then the second book comes along and it just doesn't - its just more of the same "I'm Kvothe, I murder kings and fuck princesses. I'm a badass."

 

[the December King]

What kept it bearable is how terribly he got his ass handed to him during the present-day bits. No matter how awesome he was in his retelling of his past, at least you know he's going to get fucked over.

I think this might be the only thing keeping me going with the series.

It's like the books by Douglas Nicholas- Something Red, The Wicked, Throne Of Darkness- the writing is superb, but I can't get into the actual story- I rolled my eyes so hard during the first book that I got a headache, the hero was soooo awesome.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

The Fae sex thing wasn't even the worst bit. You know what was worse? The fffffucking Ademre part.

I didn't notice as much during my first reading because I was way too enamored with the world building and style of prose, which indeed is why I too still recommend those books wholeheartedly. But during my second reading the Ademre part especially stood out like a sore freakin' thumb. At least the Fae thing was blind luck and the bandit camp thing was done with planning and a team. The whole sword fighting spiel was just pure character-masturbation.

What kept it bearable is how terribly he got his ass handed to him during the present-day bits. No matter how awesome he was in his retelling of his past, at least you know he's going to get fucked over.

It's worth mentioning that this is Kvothe telling his story from his perspective. He says that he's telling the truth...but is he really? How much of what he's saying is pure embellishment? The framework is probably all true, but what about the fine details?

Still...we all know that he's going to get completely fucked by a giant, prickly demon. I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out, and even if Kvothe is just a little too perfect, Pat is still a good enough writer to make it an enjoyable read.

OT: The very end of the Inheritance Cycle.

Spoiler

The books were great until the very end. Then, Eragon basically just leaves the known world for no good reason at all. He gets a bittersweet ending for reasons that were basically made up on the spot; he doesn't even get laid. The ending just felt so...contrived. He didn't have to leave, and the reasons he gave for leaving were flimsy at BEST, and nonexistent at worst.

It's a shame. Christopher Paolini was so good up until that point.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Addendum:

Sweet Jesus am I really having a conversation about a book series with four people at once? Well then.

Pretty much this. But yeah, fuck the Ademre and their warrior poet superiority sideways. Worst thing in both books, easily.

Actually, I adored reading about the culture as such. Yeah they were insufferable from our perspective, but that's fine. I don't need to identify with a culture as such to enjoy it. I loved how different they felt compared to the cultures the book were set in up until that point as well. It helped that we've read about the reputation Ademre mercenaries had beforehand as well. How they were painted as both dumb or socially awkward and legendary fighters. Reading what it was actually about felt like a real treat, it felt so well-fleshed out.

No, what was terrible about it is how Kvothe reached that level of legendary fighting ability in mere weeks without rhyme or reason. How he became best buddies and was all awesome and even got one of their swords despite being from a completely different culture they even look down upon. Fuck that noise.

What kept it bearable is how terribly he got his ass handed to him during the present-day bits. No matter how awesome he was in his retelling of his past, at least you know he's going to get fucked over.

I think this might be the only thing keeping me going with the series.

That and the mythos building. The stories-within-stories, the different perspectives on said stories, all the small things in the background. It makes the world feels so incredibly alive. From the moment young Kvothe sat down with that storyteller, we still know barely anything about by the way, early on in the first book I was hooked.

It's worth mentioning that this is Kvothe telling his story from his perspective. He says that he's telling the truth...but is he really? How much of what he's saying is pure embellishment? The framework is probably all true, but what about the fine details?

Considering how he feels about the legends surrounding him, how he often admits he got lucky and how tired he is of life I reckon he really is telling the truth so far as he knows it. He comes off as genuine and authentic. He knows his end is near and he wants there to be at least one genuine account of his life, he comes off as being really sick of all the nonsense.

I had the same reaction at those exact spots. I could buy him being the best singer ever and being the best at magic, and being the youngest person at magic-school gave him some interesting character bits

To be fair, at least at magic he wasn't the best. Name-calling that is. I loved his interactions with that crazy professor. How you're never quite sure but you just know there's tremendous power in that weird man that goes far beyond what Kvothe does.

That of course was slightly counteracted by him being so good at that artificing stuff.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

OT: The very end of the Inheritance Cycle.

Spoiler

The books were great until the very end. Then, Eragon basically just leaves the known world for no good reason at all. He gets a bittersweet ending for reasons that were basically made up on the spot; he doesn't even get laid. The ending just felt so...contrived. He didn't have to leave, and the reasons he gave for leaving were flimsy at BEST, and nonexistent at worst.

It's a shame. Christopher Paolini was so good up until that point.

TBH: I found it to be the poop icing on a turd cake. There was so much horribly wrong with those books, like every scene with Angela, the Draco ex Machina scar healing, Roran killing over a hundred people in one battle, the slightly homoerotic scene where Eragon looked at is teacher's crotch, the stupid shit with the holier than thou attitude of elves which is accepted by everyone, the non-descript evilness of the Empire and Galbarotix, Eragon's treatment of people who he doesn't agree with... The list goes on and on.

Pretty much this. But yeah, fuck the Ademre and their warrior poet superiority sideways. Worst thing in both books, easily.

Actually, I adored reading about the culture as such. Yeah they were insufferable from our perspective, but that's fine. I don't need to identify with a culture as such to enjoy it. I loved how different they felt compared to the cultures the book were set in up until that point as well. It helped that we've read about the reputation Ademre mercenaries had beforehand as well. How they were painted as both dumb or socially awkward and legendary fighters. Reading what it was actually about felt like a real treat, it felt so well-fleshed out.

No, what was terrible about it is how Kvothe reached that level of legendary fighting ability in mere weeks without rhyme or reason. How he became best buddies and was all awesome and even got one of their swords despite being from a completely different culture they even look down upon. Fuck that noise.

Did Kvothe though? I mean, how I interpreted it when I read it was that he was basically a yellow belt by the end of it.
[EDIT:

As an aside to that: I didn't really feel their culture, nor their language, to be that believable. Didn't help my opinion on that part of the book.

]

Also on my list of these kinds of series: fucking Sword of Truth. Book one was pretty decent, although the ending didn't make much sense. It didn't so much spiral downwards from there as it did fall of a fucking 10 kilometre cliff.

 

[Quellist]

Also on my list of these kinds of series: fucking Sword of Truth. Book one was pretty decent, although the ending didn't make much sense. It didn't so much spiral downwards from there as it did fall of a fucking 10 kilometre cliff.

Fuck yes! Not only is Richard a fucking Gary-Stu of the first order but once the writer started wanking off to Ayn Rand constantly and without letup it somehow managed to get worse

 

[Hades]

Mass effect of course. The story relied a great deal on the dread inspired by the Reapers which gets destroyed when you give them a motivation that requires the logic of a toddler. They aren't incomprehensible alien gods anymore but mere idiots with big guns. It also doesn't help that the original ending seemed to be somewhat unfinished.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I think maybe halfway through a book called The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss there was just a point where the main character went full overpowered power fantasy character. I mean he was a bit Gary Stu-ish in the first book (The Name of the Wind) and stuff because he's literally the best at everything but there are some interesting flaws, mostly in his mindset in that in his mind, he must look perfect at any cost even when there isn't really any harm in showing a few mistakes here and there.

Like not presenting himself as perfection incarnate just never enters his mind, I think that's pretty neat seeing the lengths a man can go too to look perfect and obviously, stretching himself out to look perfect often makes even more problems for him.

Then out of nowhere, y'know guys, we gotta make him get kidnapped by a sex fairy and get super good at pleasing women because... reasons? Then later he wipes a camp of hardened mercenaries single handedly.

Yeah, Kvothe slipped off the edge of the overpowered but relativity relatable side of the knife into the just plain bullshit.

Honestly i'd still recommend The Name of the Wind just for the way he writes. The content of the writing might not be super awesome but his writing style is pretty interesting.

You... you have to get out of my head. This sums up the books for me almost to a tee, as I really enjoyed that first one immensely.

In A Wise Man's Fear, I really didn't like the warrior woman ninja race either, and Kvothe's time with them felt like a ham-fisted and inplausible way of humbling him by saying he got beaten up by a little girl for months on end. The book had some cool ideas, but ultimately between the faery queen abduction and the time with the ninjas, it left me frustrated.

I still dunno what I think about the framework, the prose is excellent but i've never liked the flash-forward style of writing and I have never enjoyed waiting for a character I like to fail. It's like reading a ticking time bomb and hoping the next page won't be the one where it goes off and that's not really very fun. Kudos to the writer though, I really cannot stand flash-forwards at all but I still really liked the books.

I can't root for the hero when I know for a fact that the guy loses and loses hard, y'know?

Oh and there was a point in the books where I really noticed Kvothe's stubbornness, you know when that girl he was really sweet on makes a song about that guy in the legend where he betrays that city ala Troy? She makes a positive spin on the story and he rips her apart, practically ruining their relationship. Dude, you were like 16 years old or something and you heard the story once from some no-name storyteller that never appears in the story again, how is her version of events less valid than yours? You heard it in your childhood so it cannot be wrong I guess?

See how the mere concept that he was mistaken just does not enter his head? That's super cool, even if it is frustrating at times where he fucks himself over with it.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I don't know about MOMENTS, but...

The Pendragon series was an AMAZING set of books. The first 8 were outstanding stories involving world-hopping to strange new places (and the past and future of Earth), an enigmatic villain, a pacifist hero (except against the main villain under only the most dire circumstances) who got shit done despite still being a goddamn kid, close victories, horrifying reversals into defeat...It has everything going for it.

The ninth book was a little bit mediocre, but then

Spoiler: spoilers from here on out

they had this epic conclusion where the hero FINALLY snaps in the face of everything the villain has done to (Present Day) Earth and to his friends and outright kills one of the villain's puppets that was responsible for fucking up Present Earth by chucking him out of a helicopter.

Cue the major villain going "...I win.", followed by the Flume-Crystal network unifying all the various worlds together exploding, and the hero finding himself alone in a strange dark place, staring down the fact he had let the villain win by going against what he was supposed to do as the Prime Traveler by taking a life.

Then, his previously dead Mentor appears to him, along with the other main characters and tells him "Ok, we lost. You screwed up. We lost the battle of wits and ideas to keep our worlds safe. But we CAN still salvage this." prompting shock that the rules are now totally thrown out the window, and hope that whatever insanity brought back all these main characters and brought them together will be enough to turn things around.

EPIC conclusion with a setup for the final showdown. And THEN, the final book happened.

Spoiler: spoiler warning

So, the final book opens with the dead mentor pulling back the mysterious curtain on ALL the mysterious goings on about the worlds. EVERY single mystery is laid bare, EVERY last one, and the big twist is "Oh yeah, the universe runs on magical good-feelings powers, and all of you Travelers are made of it, which is why you can heal each other even if you're at the brink of death. And the villain just wants to be a god so he made is OWN magical power-realm made of negative feelings and that's what his whole plan is about, causing enough misery to let him be a god that rules over one world while letting the others just be perpetual misery machines." This, on top of all the other openly revealed and stupid twists, and the fact that all of their previous victories (minus the one in WW2 era earth) were reversed and rendered meaningless even when he hero DIDN'T accidentally fuck them up on his own, ruined the series in the first 3 chapters of that final book.

This was a series that THRIVED on the thrill of discovery and learning new weird rules for how the worlds interacted, and wondering how the hero would be forced to bend or break them next in order to stop the villain.

And the author fired every single remaining bullet in the opening, leaving no mystery whatsoever to be resolved in the next 95% of the book.

So what was left for the "epic conclusion" book of this series to do? A looooong protracted buildup of hopping around worlds to get a bit of a resistance movement started, followed by a kinda stupid march on the villain's home city in Future Earth, and finally ending in a goddamn FISTFIGHT between the hero and the villain, when the whole series was all about the two of them trying to outsmart each other.

Ugh...It was such a fantastic series, only for them to ruin it right at the start of the final book. Me and the friend who was also a huge fan...We were NOT happy with it. It was pathetic.

Anyone will tell you that you do NOT reveal all the mysteries of your setting all in one shot, THAT early in the final book! AUGH!