Would it be a good thing to teach American children to become nice people?

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Casual Shinji

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CaitSeith said:
Still, if the shitty kids don't learn how to not be shitty, they'll become shitty adults. Reducing that outcome as much as possible is something still worth trying (no matter if it can't be fixed 100%).
It is, but it's still something you're never going to find a proper solution for unless someone invents some sort of mind controlling device. As long as kids have free will they'll try and test the bounds of what they can get away with, this includes treating others like shit. Kids who get bullied only become a bigger target when they speak up about it, and kids who bully won't give a shit or aren't even aware of it. That's been my experience anyway.
erttheking said:
Casual Shinji said:
Isn't that what's already being done? Not that I have a firm grasp on what's going on in schools today, but I would assume that 'respect others and don't be an asshole' is something most will try to teach children, or at least prevent them from not doing. Kids are simply assholes by default, since they don't know any better yet.
Depends on the school, considering there's a lot of schools with many of them fighting tooth and nail against basic respect for trans people or the like.
Aah, but then those schools think they're doing the right thing already. A lot of bullying is done by people who simply follow what they consider rigtheous and noble believes.
 

Trunkage

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Marik2 said:
trunkage said:
Marik2 said:
Just show them Mr Roger's and teach them morals.
That's very SJW of you....

You know what does surprise me. Shows like Mr Rogers and He-man which literally state the moral of the story is frowned upon nowadays
Casual Shinji said:
trunkage said:
Casual Shinji said:
Isn't that what's already being done? Not that I have a firm grasp on what's going on in schools today, but I would assume that 'respect others and don't be an asshole' is something most will try to teach children, or at least prevent them from not doing. Kids are simply assholes by default, since they don't know any better yet.
If you listen to any media broadcast, apparently bullying is still a massive problem at schools.
And I don't think that'll ever not be the case.


I might have a very cynical outlook on this, but bullying is kind of unsolveable. You put that many kids together with comparatively very little adult supervision and they're gonna turn very nasty toward any kid that's a little weird or lacking in self confidence.
Just look at any discussion about Free Speech on this site. Bullying is rampant with adults too.
How is Mr Roger's and morals supposed to be sjw?
Being nice to each other. Morals. Tolerance. He deliberately put minorities in his show to make them more acceptable. Equality. Rogers was pretty self-righteous about it too. Sounds like all the traits of a SJW

Plus:
Hawki said:
I'd have thought that was always frowned upon. Stating the moral at the end of the story is lazy writing at best, and patronising at worst (mostly).
Honestly, I'd expect there would be a massive outcry if a show like Mr Rogers came out today, preaching morals at people.
 

Agema

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CaptJohnSheridan said:
Why do people think it is a bad thing to encourage children to be nice people?
Probably because that's not the attitude that they perceive that the people at the top of society have, and not what they've been told themselves for how to get ahead in life.

Often the view is to fight for yourself, graft, hustle, etc. and make sure you win. In short, to compete. Naturally, some people will be inclined to compete by hurting the opposition, not just by improving their own personal achievement.
 

Saint of M

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How would you teach it? There are small things, but if the home life is somewhere between the Simpsons and Married with Children, or heaven help, Family guy you're screwed. Teach them to be nice all they want, they still go home to that and that teaches them more than anything else.

While alot of people I would consider to be a Kyle or Stan, and the Mass Majoraty of us are a Kenny, you still got a Cartman. Teach him to be nice all you want, he's still going to be a Cartman
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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Agema said:
Probably because that's not the attitude that they perceive that the people at the top of society have, and not what they've been told themselves for how to get ahead in life.

Often the view is to fight for yourself, graft, hustle, etc. and make sure you win. In short, to compete. Naturally, some people will be inclined to compete by hurting the opposition, not just by improving their own personal achievement.
I don't know ... the greatest 'common' idea of successful I ever was was making the right friends at the right time (and luck of meeting them, I suppose). Being a total prick to them when I met them probably would have meant I'd still need to work for a living. I would have lost about half or two-thirds of my accrued wealth in 2008/9 with the mining boom end. Rather, instead I kept the grand majority of my wealth, bought back in half a year later and ended up with twice as much stock that has netted me collectively a pretty healthy div yield over time on top of a general increase in total value.

Human success, collectively, is built on mutual aid, trust, and collective knowledge 'banking'. That friend of mine who I went out on a limb and trusted his advice ... well he's my stock broker now, and we've enjoyed both a social and commercial relationship where he routinely invites meto his place for dinner and to meet his family, and over all it'sactually quite a lovely friendship that has been only broken up by various movements of mine in the past.

People who teach their kids basically any take on 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' is ultimately teaching their kids to simply fail.

You should teach your kids to get three or four friends together, and build a great ladder to share. I'm willing to bet you that they will do better in most aspects of life.

Nobody is an island.

Good study groups improve grades.

Extroverts statistically are happier than introverts.

Positive human relationships are a powerful thing. Precisely because we're gregarious creatures, and millions of us can share what is in total only a few hundred sq. kilometres of space, and together wecan build magnificent structures of civilization to educate, entertain, inspire, and embolden.

Teaching kids to merely 'compete' is ignoring the wonders of what we've built.

In a lot of ways it's self-destructive. You know the prepper movement? Each one of them telling you not to trust anyone, keepyour wits about you, people can turn on you inseconds ....

It's all pap. You want to know the people that most commonly survive disasters and hardships? The people that make good friends. The people that build trust. Leaders, and good communicators, mediators and organizers, and people that bring specialized skills mixing in with people that bring other skill sets they lack. People that can silence disputes and bring about decisive conflict resolution.

Symbiotic relationships reinforce the whole.

If you're a good leader, you have an economy on effort and time. If you're a loner, you have none.

Honestly, I think most peopleget that .. if only because it's a bit hard to ignore that society is a thing.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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immortalfrieza said:
We do already do that and always have, to respect each other and adults is among the first things we teach to our children. The problem comes down to the fact that in this day and age no one is willing to impose actual consequences for bad behavior anymore. Kids have effectively nothing to fear from adults anymore, we just sit them in a corner for 5 minutes or beg them to stop or some equivalent thereof. What very little we do about it just teaches kids to be sneakier about their bad behavior, thus bullies cornering another kid when there is no adult around so they can get away scot free. Bullies are actually much better at controlling the behavior of kids than adults are, having their fun with another kid and then threatening them with violence if they do anything and following through, while verbal bullying is pretty much let off without hardly a comment at the most.
There were plenty of bullies in the good ol' days of beating and belts, don't kid yourself.
 

COMaestro

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Addendum_Forthcoming said:
Extroverts statistically are happier than introverts.
That's only because a lot of introverts are not able to indulge in the solitude they desire as much as they need to really recharge their batteries. There's always school or work, family or social obligations, etc.

The most alone time I get these days is after the kids are in bed and if my wife goes to sleep before I do or decides to soak in the bath. So at best I might get an hour a day. It's not enough. The only way I do get some time to myself is if I stay up really late, which then makes me tired the next day and not all that happy either. I can't win :(
 

Canadamus Prime

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"Nice?" I dislike the word "nice." I prefer words like "respectful," "kind" and "compassionate." These words seem so much more powerful than "nice." On topic though, if these concepts can be taught to children then I definitely think they should be. Maybe have them read "The Sneeches" by Dr. Suess 20 times a day until they get it.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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COMaestro said:
That's only because a lot of introverts are not able to indulge in the solitude they desire as much as they need to really recharge their batteries. There's always school or work, family or social obligations, etc.

The most alone time I get these days is after the kids are in bed and if my wife goes to sleep before I do or decides to soak in the bath. So at best I might get an hour a day. It's not enough. The only way I do get some time to myself is if I stay up really late, which then makes me tired the next day and not all that happy either. I can't win :(
Hrm .... maybe? I Just remember havingto be a confederate on a psych core class that was measuringthe correlation between into/extro - happiness - optimism/pessimism. With a five point lie scale test, Oxford HS, Eysenck PI, etc. We managed to secure a testing body of 400 odd people over a wide swath of Eastern Suburbs and CBD Sydney and beyond. A goodspread amongst age brackets. There was a pretty significant correlation between extroversion and happiness. Whether in part because of environmental reasons as you say, or not ... but it does kind of exist.

I'm a bit sporadic myself. Fortunately I don't have to concern myself with other people when I don't need to ... not beyond study and accreditation reasons and other contractual obligations.

I love cities, but I do routinely just take myself off on 'adventures' exploring parts of Australia on foot by myself. Free climbing, orienteering, a bit of amateur fossicking in the interior. Alone time is good.

Even in the age of planes, helicopters and satellites, exploration is still thriving. Places that haven't been recorded, caves left uncharted, whatever is actually beneath jungle canopies and hazardous and isolated rock out croppings. What lies just beneath the surface of sand and sandstone.

I've run into all sorts of interesting people in the middle of arguably nowhere. People who spent their lives in a non-academic setting trying to correlate and study where that next major opal discovery might be found by poring over the latest geological surveys of natural underground bodies like the Great Artesian Basin.

Where the water bubbles and scalds flesh as it seeps out of the ground. You can actually make tea without having to boil it. I wouldn't suggest it ... the water is often partly fouled and you can smell it ... but in certain places it's safe.

The 21st century is still replete with explorers just waiting to stake a claim in a still wild world. And a lot of those people are happy introverts working alone under blistering sun and sand blasting winds, and freezing night skies. They're content to do nothing else precisely because a desert hermitage suits them more than any cityscape.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Canadamus Prime said:
"Nice?" I dislike the word "nice." I prefer words like "respectful," "kind" and "compassionate." These words seem so much more powerful than "nice." On topic though, if these concepts can be taught to children then I definitely think they should be. Maybe have them read "The Sneeches" by Dr. Seuss 20 times a day until they get it.
I support this solution.

Not sure if the term SJW is being used to vilify anyone who encourages respectful/kind/compassionate behavior in kids towards each other these days, but considering its overuse online it wouldn't be much of a leap to make: 'Shut up, Mrs. (Teacher Name)! You're such a damn SJW! I'll call my mom and she'll try to have you fired for telling her kids how to behave!'

I was bullied in elementary and high school, but in retrospect I consider it partly my own responsibility for being too introverted to speak out about it to an adult (also because I saw people getting it far worse than I did). Maybe it wouldn't have accomplished anything, but I will never know because I never tried.
 

Avnger

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WhiteFangofWhoa said:
Canadamus Prime said:
"Nice?" I dislike the word "nice." I prefer words like "respectful," "kind" and "compassionate." These words seem so much more powerful than "nice." On topic though, if these concepts can be taught to children then I definitely think they should be. Maybe have them read "The Sneeches" by Dr. Seuss 20 times a day until they get it.
I support this solution.

Not sure if the term SJW is being used to vilify anyone who encourages respectful/kind/compassionate behavior in kids towards each other these days, but considering its overuse online it wouldn't be much of a leap to make: 'Shut up, Mrs. (Teacher Name)! You're such a damn SJW! I'll call my mom and she'll try to have you fired for telling her kids how to behave!'

I was bullied in elementary and high school, but in retrospect I consider it partly my own responsibility for being too introverted to speak out about it to an adult (also because I saw people getting it far worse than I did). Maybe it wouldn't have accomplished anything, but I will never know because I never tried.
The alt-right has done its best to ensure that any type of empathy, kindness, or considering of others is demonized. "SJW," "white-knight," "virtue signalling", "snowflake," etc
 

Saint of M

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Avnger said:
WhiteFangofWhoa said:
Canadamus Prime said:
"Nice?" I dislike the word "nice." I prefer words like "respectful," "kind" and "compassionate." These words seem so much more powerful than "nice." On topic though, if these concepts can be taught to children then I definitely think they should be. Maybe have them read "The Sneeches" by Dr. Seuss 20 times a day until they get it.
I support this solution.

Not sure if the term SJW is being used to vilify anyone who encourages respectful/kind/compassionate behavior in kids towards each other these days, but considering its overuse online it wouldn't be much of a leap to make: 'Shut up, Mrs. (Teacher Name)! You're such a damn SJW! I'll call my mom and she'll try to have you fired for telling her kids how to behave!'

I was bullied in elementary and high school, but in retrospect I consider it partly my own responsibility for being too introverted to speak out about it to an adult (also because I saw people getting it far worse than I did). Maybe it wouldn't have accomplished anything, but I will never know because I never tried.
The alt-right has done its best to ensure that any type of empathy, kindness, or considering of others is demonized. "SJW," "white-knight," "virtue signalling", "snowflake," etc
Isn't a knight in shining armor one that hasn't had his tested in battle?

Its an issue on all sides. Alt right are the loud and proud type we all love to hate. Alt left, where you get the same thing but this time using the banner of something we care for as a shield. Um, no, just because you are doing it for the right reason doesn't mean you are not doing it stupidly (say for example the naked guy in LA that halted traffic for a go Green message, or a group of protesters that walked on a Oakland and somehow didn't end up shot despite an equaly notorious Bay Area Traffic).
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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You teach by example. It is not enough to teach the children to be nice people, you have to require the adults be nice people first to set the example.

Some places actually do some of this by setting city ordinances and handing out fines to offenders. Maybe these things should be done on a state/ federal/ county level rather than just the city.

Some towns have outlawed "foul language", though usually through social conditioning rather than through use of force through law. For example:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ocean-city-maryland-placing-a-ban-on-bad-words/

On the state level laws such as " failure to stop and render aid" have made it illegal to not help someone who has been injured in an accident, duty to rescue laws vary from requiring you to rescue your spouse to requiring you to call for help for others.. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue )

I think the most effective way to prevent people from being rude in general though is the ability to refuse service. If someone is known to be rude, businesses refusing to serve them is probably one of the most effective tools as eventually they will run out of places to go and things to do if no one will let them come in their business. I wish more businesses used this to toss rude people rather than just force their staff to suffer those people.