WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

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Neosage

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Therumancer said:
Salem_Wolf said:
Reposted from BlogTechnical.com [http://www.blogtechnical.com/219/wow-player-kicked-from-guild-for-being-deaf.bt]

I didn't find this story by using the search bar, forgive me if it was already posted.


It seems being deaf can actually get you into a bit of trouble with one guild in the World of Warcraft.

User Unwelcomed explained that he recently was involved in an accident, resulting in his hearing being damaged significantly. As a result, he has had problems conversing with friends and listening to music. The whole ordeal bogged him down so he turned to World of Warcraft to lift his spirits. His guild seemed to be accepting of the matter for just a short time, but when they asked him if he could use the Vent voice chat servers, he said no but also mentioned that he could research raids and use DBMs.

This didn't solve the matter and he was kicked from the guild and ignored. Here is the full complaint:

    • Hey there thanks for clicking my post. This is going to be a bit lengthy.

      I recently had an accident that resulted in the permanent lose of my hearing. The last few months have been the hardest i have ever known. I have had to deal with never listening to music and talking to people has become exhausting.

      Its become that most people i thought were my friends just didn?t want to deal with me anymore as i had become inconvenient. I felt more alone than ever.

      So i came back to wow. Now I've been playing with my guild for about 4 years. We have all become close friends. We have even done some rl guild parties. I explained why i have been off for so long to the guild. I explained my condition. Everyone was pretty supportive for about 5 minutes.

      Do you know what the first question i got from my guild leader was? He asked me if i could still use vent. I told him no, but tried to assure him it wouldn't be a problem as i usually research the fights before hand and use dbm.

      He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

      After that i cried. I didn't know what to do, who to turn to. I tried joining up with some other guilds but their response to why i can?t use vent went about the same.

      So i come to the forums to not only vent my frustrations but to find others with my condition. Are there any deaf friendly raiding guilds out there? Would you be willing to take me in? How have you dealt with being deaf?

      Any advice is appreciated, so long as its constructive.

      Thanks for letting me blow off some steam, typing this out has helped.

      TL;DR version
      Got deaf, got kicked, cried.

      Edit: I can't believe the responses i have received. My brother and i have been reading all of them and i have not felt such compassion in such a long time. (And from the wow forums no less lol) Its almost to much to handle. Now don't get me wrong, i'm 6?3 240 pounds built like a truck chef crying just isn?t something i do. lol But here i am making an exception.

      My brother and i have decided to make something out of our guild. The offers have been appreciated and noted. Thank You all again for the feedback it means more than you could ever know.

Haven?t they heard of text chat? Guess they don?t know about making exceptions. Luckily there are many other guilds that have non-Vent requirements, and some that cater to the deaf.

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.
Actually, I think there is a part of this that is being overlooked. The statement "I came back to WoW".

What it seemed happened was that he had taken a break from World Of Warcraft, and when he became deaf he decided to return to the game. This means he showed up after a noteworthy absence (where he stopped playing) to a very competitive group of people, and then wanted to start raiding again where he'd be a serious inconveinence at best, and an outright liability at worst.

Not being able to talk on vent is one thing, not being able to hear vent and listen to the raid leader is something else entirely as even if you know the fight, being able to react quickly to instructions is a big deal. Even if typing during a fight like that wasn't potentially catastrophic (I honestly think most raid bosses are designed with the assumption people will have voice chat and certain types of mods nowadays), it's a pain in the nuts to have to type stuff out that you just said for the sake of one person.

Consider that even in amateur and semi-pro sports where there is little at stake, someone with an injury might also be kicked form a team even if everyone is their buddy. You blow a knee out, and it'st too bad, but that doesn't mean they are still going to let you play.

The biggest factor here though is simply that he quit and decided to come back though. Or so it would seem to me. All the above reasons aside, if he was playing regularly and this happened, chances are allowances would have been made. On the other hand on top of of everything consider that he has been replaced as part of the regular raid line up. What this means is that adding him in means that someone is going to wind up having to sit so he can raid. Returns of old friends can be handled in such situations, but when you add the disabillity issue and the inconveience, it's easy to see where they are coming from.

On top of all of this, and admittedly the most minor factor, is that people DO dull after extended absences, not to mention needing new gear. Jumping right into raiding effectively just doesn't happen. What's more Cataclysm in paticular is brutal in this regard since they have hardwired gear requirements. To enter heroics for example the game itself won't let you in the door if you don't have an overall gear level of 329 or better (which is now listed on your sheet). Incidently this means that a group of overpowered guildies can't drag an undergeared buddy through heroics, or geat them up in the raids themselves until they become more useful, things have to be done in sequence. What's more Blizzard decided to take the attitude that "heroics are serious business now" and the difficulty has spiked quite a bit beyond the basic level. I suspect this is because Cataclysm included far less high level content than previous expansions, and only 5 levels, so Blizzard wants to drag things out a bit more with what they have before their next expansion. It's a big factor now as well.

As far as the "it's a game" comments, this is true, but games are intended to be fun, and understand this guy might not be fun to play with for the other 9 to 24 people (or more if people would have to sit) involved.

I'll also be blunt in saying that there is probably more to this than we're hearing. Most guilds probably wouldn't have kicked him for this, but they probably would have put him on non-raiding status even if they are generally a raiders only guild, a social thing. In a practical sense (intent aside) this means he'd probably wind up doing dungeons with people between raids when they were bored and very slowly gear up. Eventually the time would come when they would be short on people, and despite everything the other 9 to 24 guys online would decide that giving him a shot or dealing with the frustration is better than not raiding. With time he'd get a chance to prove himself, and if it worked out, chances are he'd be right back to raiding.

My immediate guess is that when he showed up he expected allowances to be made due to long term involvement, and everyone to drop everything to get him back into raiding on what amount to his terms. When this wasn't going to happen he made a stink about it, and wound up getting kicked. The fact that he had friends in the guild probably meant that his prescence with that attitude would lead to drama. I've seen things like this happen over the years for situations like this even without the deafness issue.

Don't assume I have no sympathy for the guy (I have some serious issues IRL myself which I have mentioned, and have difficulty doing a lot of things). I am just saying that what happened here is actually quite understandable and probably not unreasonable. Put yourself in the shoes of the other people in the guild, or the guild leader who has to decide what's best for the other people in the guild. This might not be a nice thing on any level, but sometimes the guy(s) in charge have to make hard desicians, and this is why being the leader sucks. If this guy had all these friends in this guild as he says, I doubt this was an easy desician from the end of the leadership, or done all that callously.
You forget the fact that he fought with the guild leader. As someone said, his report seems to imply he was kicked for being deaf. It appears to me that he was only kicked after fighting with the guild leader and that he wasn't necessarily going to be kicked for being unable to use vent.

But yes, I agree with your statement and I think the guild has every right to kick the guy. It's not their fault he's deaf and if he would be damaging the guild by raiding with them, then the guy would need to be booted; having said this though, I would be very surprised if this was indeed the case, as I'm sure they'd be some way round it.

Edit: To those who are sympathising, I would ask you to read who wrote the "complaint" and look into the possible bias demonstrated. I doubt we're getting the full story.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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I would if the pun on venting is frustration on the forums were intended? I can definitely see where the Guild is coming from on this but they still don't have a leg to stand on if this is actually the case for the guy. If he is deaf they should be willing to compensate for one member. Although they did have a fight so I dunno.
 

Veldel

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this is asinine and anouther reason for me to dislike wow I mean come on kicking someone becouse they lost there hearing is bull
 

Merkavar

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i can see the guild leaders point of view. wow is pretty relient on sounds but i would have thought you could take him to a raid and see how he went first.

or maybe not kick them, maybe just dont take them to new raids. only take them to raids that are faceroll.
 

Continuity

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Indecipherable said:
You just. Don't. Get it.

There are many guilds out there that have fun by winning. Heck, basically every sporting team out there measures success by their victories. Now tell me, in a group of like minded, dedicated gamers who derive their fun by succeeding in difficult content, should every single one of them give up on this fun to accomodate for someone who is only dragging them down. In a 24 person raid, is it fair that 23 have to have no fun and watch hours of failure go by for 1 person to be included..

When a sporting team has a player with an injury so that they cannot compete, they are out.

Gods... some people... unable to look outside of their own little box that people play the game differently to them.
hear hear, some people just don't realise that some gamers take competitive gaming very seriously, very much like a sport. People don't deride athletes for taking their sport seriously, why should we be any less tolerant of serious gamers?
 

Farotsu

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Continuity said:
hear hear, some people just don't realise that some gamers take competitive gaming very seriously, very much like a sport. People don't deride athletes for taking their sport seriously, why should we be any less tolerant of serious gamers?
Exactly. I've pretty much quit WoW for now, been off from active raiding scene for 9 months soon but when I was around, my guild was borderline hardcore. Like on Ulduar release we raided 6-10 hours a day when competing for the server firsts. Those were our goals which we worked for during the whole month prior the patch and we did have to kick out several people that we thought wouldn't measure up with the rest of the guild. Some didn't want to work that extra lenght, others just weren't clearly good enough. Now does that make us bad people for not including them on our raids? Yes we even kicked out people for not using the vent or not having a microphone. It was a major inconvenience on encounters that, we as a raiding community, were still learning.

I also think that we don't know the full story here. Having completed only "10 man naxx once" seems pretty much bull. If this was true, then the guild master was propably a kid who wanted to have a feel for a competitive guild and created the rules and stood by them without thinking all the consequences through. Sadly I've seen that to happen aswell.

Anyway, like others have already said, I wouldn't have kicked this guy out from the guild. Probably would've included him in on "farm" raids where no new encounters were done and where the other 24 could've easily carried that one person along. But if the guild is serious about progress and actually being competitive, I wouldn't bring someone who couldn't use vent on progress encounters. That would just most likely ruin the game for the other 24 players. Since we don't know the full story, both sides could've been at fault with the whole downfall between them.
 

Zarmi

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Oh dear... After having played WoW for quite some time, I can safely say that many people and guilds, are simply a bunch of assholes. But this is just pathetic by my standard. You can't just throw someone away like a piece of trash. It's a game, sure. But the guy knows those people, and expected some help from them, and apparantly this is what he got.. Shows how humans are today..
 

logiman

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To be honest, you kinda need vent 24/7 when you are doing top tear raids/pvp, no matter how pro you are. Communication is key.
 

Sixcess

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This thread reminds me why I play City of Heroes more than WoW. Sure there are supergroups, but LFG in that game tends to be "Fuck it, we're superhuman. We can handle anything with the first 8 people that show up."
 

Salem_Wolf

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Sixcess said:
This thread reminds me why I play City of Heroes more than WoW. Sure there are supergroups, but LFG in that game tends to be "Fuck it, we're superhuman. We can handle anything with the first 8 people that show up."
City of Heroes was massively fun. I'm really going to have to get into it when I get a better computer and steady source of income. There's no better mentality than the mind of a superhero.

For now, when Champions of Heroes goes free-to-play I'll just hang out there...ah well.
 

Bat Vader

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Mar 11, 2009
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The only problem with the story is that we are only reading his side of it. We don't know what was actually said. From the way he tells it the Guild Master would not even give him a chance to prove he could still raid well. If that is true I can understand why he would have gotten mad. In my opinion I think the Guild Master should have given him a chance before deciding to not let him raid.
 

Typhusoid

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strangeotron said:
Your arrogance is laughable. Grow up. If your need to play a video game 'competitively' excludes you from being friendly and welcoming to a fellow player with a disability then you don't deserve to be in the game. If i was Blizzard i'd personally kick the **** out the game permanently as an example. You can either choose to be a **** in this life or a decent human being. If you think that a deaf guy on a raid is that much of a hindrance to your game experience then you have my sympathy; at least you can find someone else to play with.
Playing games like Wow competitively might not matter to you, but it does matter to other people. In a raid, it is neccessary for all of the members to respond to the orders of the leader instantly, which is what Vent/voice chat allows groups to do. If he cant use vent, he can't raid effectively. It's really quite simple.
 

pretentiousname01

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Sep 30, 2009
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Ehh I've heard of a no girls allowed rule.

Nothing is saying they can't kick for any reason they want. This is also his side of the story. Perhaps he pulls sub par dps, stands in fires. Any number of other issues can compound the physical part.
 

Zannah

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strangeotron said:
Zannah said:
A serious threat?

Listen to yourself!
A serious, as in hardly compensable, threat to the success of the raid, and by extension the fun of everyone involved. Are you saying because this person had an accident, he suddenly has the right to spoil the fun and freetime of a considerable number of other people?
Since that's exactly what this person claims, to the point of picking a fight about it. And then when he has to pay the price for such behavior, he runs to a forum, continuing the fight behind the backs of those involved. This person doesn't deserve any pity, he's just the kid with glasses, hitting his classmates and trying to hide behind the teacher, so he needn't suffer retaliation, since you're not allowed to hit kids with glasses.
 

Kakashi on crack

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jaing1138 said:
Kakashi on crack said:
-snip-quote]
jaing1138 said:
Kakashi on crack said:
-snip-
I'm not saying tough love, I was just commenting on people's attitudes and that he should have seen this coming.

I feel a bit of sympathy, but I really have a hard time feeling sympathy for someone I don't know, and will likely never known because I will likely never see them in real life. Would I have done the same thing in the Guild Leader's shoes? Not exactly, I would have said "alright, lets see what you can do still" and would have given him a chance, but he mentioned having a falling out with the leader, so how am I supposed to know that he was the "victim" without further proof? I can victimize myself in a lot of crap I've done, it's really simple, and even simpler online.


EDIT: And yes, I jacked up the quote thing... ahh well
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Indecipherable said:
Except you do it all the time. Anytime you decide "this isn't fun I think I will do something else" then you have measured and weighed the pros and cons of spending your time doing what you are doing.
You don't, as you've just proved. You measure not having fun. You never measure fun.

Arguing for the sake of it isn't fun either.
 

Toeys

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Im not gonna bother reading all ten pages just to see similar stories, but i want to share the story of a magnificent deaf wow player.

Back in vanilla i was head of a guild that was clearing molten core and parts of blackwing lair. As we progressed in molten core this warlock was applying. He was deaf, but he had some gear and the right mindset. Now in a 40 man raid, atleast in molten core it wouldnt matter if someone was deaf. Simply because they could disappear in the masses. However, this warlock would perfect his job and i would do written instructions at specific bosses which he would execute without any problem. He was also easily top 10 and alot of times top 5 on damage.

I left the server at TBC launch, but migrated a char over to my old server half a year into WOTLK. Now my old deaf friend was in the top guild of the server doing hardmodes of Ulduar.
There is no doubt that not letting deaf people into your guild just cause of their handicap is
a huge mistake.

But it doesnt shock me that it occured as described by the OP. WoW is stuffed with rotten people that want their shiny epics before learning how to play their character. Thats why i left. You can get used to hating other people in those kinda games.