WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[binvjoh]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

Hence why he needs to be reminded it is just a game.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm getting at. A game can have a profound effect on people, saying things like "it's just a game" undermines our medium as an artform.

 

[Kortney]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

Hence why he needs to be reminded it is just a game.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm getting at. A game can have a profound effect on people, saying things like "it's just a game" undermines our medium as an artform.

No it doesn't. It's just reminding this particular man to stop acting like it's the end of the world because some dick kicked him from a guild.

I'd say the same if someone was distraught over a film, book, song or painting. It's not healthy to be.

 

[binvjoh]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

Hence why he needs to be reminded it is just a game.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm getting at. A game can have a profound effect on people, saying things like "it's just a game" undermines our medium as an artform.

No it doesn't. It's just reminding this particular man to stop acting like it's the end of the world because some dick kicked him from a guild.

I'd say the same if someone was distraught over a film, book, song or painting. It's not healthy to be.

Then we have very different mindsets.

 

[Kortney]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

Hence why he needs to be reminded it is just a game.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm getting at. A game can have a profound effect on people, saying things like "it's just a game" undermines our medium as an artform.

No it doesn't. It's just reminding this particular man to stop acting like it's the end of the world because some dick kicked him from a guild.

I'd say the same if someone was distraught over a film, book, song or painting. It's not healthy to be.

Then we have very different mindsets.

So you support this man victimising himself, for a series of events we know next to nothing about, over a video game? Surely that's not doing anything other than making himself feel terrible.

And like I said in an earlier post, I'm not convinced by this guys story. The way he writes makes me think that he could of acted inappropriately too. But, as I also said earlier, if I had to take a side I would take that of the deaf man's. I just don't see why he couldn't of reported them to Blizzard (if they really were as abusive and awful as he made out) and joined one of the many other guilds who wouldn't ever do such an awful thing.

 

[binvjoh]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

Hence why he needs to be reminded it is just a game.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm getting at. A game can have a profound effect on people, saying things like "it's just a game" undermines our medium as an artform.

No it doesn't. It's just reminding this particular man to stop acting like it's the end of the world because some dick kicked him from a guild.

I'd say the same if someone was distraught over a film, book, song or painting. It's not healthy to be.

Then we have very different mindsets.

So you support this man victimising himself, for a series of events we know next to nothing about, over a video game? Surely that's not doing anything other than making himself feel terrible.

And like I said in an earlier post, I'm not convinced by this guys story. The way he writes makes me think that he could of acted inappropriately too. But, as I also said earlier, if I had to take a side I would take that of the deaf man's. I just don't see why he couldn't of reported them to Blizzard (if they really were as abusive and awful as he made out) and joined one of the many other guilds who wouldn't ever do such an awful thing.

I wasn't actually referring to the story in my previous post, but the fact that I feel it's perfectly natural and healthy to be emotionally affected by a game, movie, book, etc.

 

[Kortney]

I wasn't actually referring to the story in my previous post, but the fact that I feel it's perfectly natural and healthy to be emotionally affected by a game, movie, book, etc.

I agree that art should have an effect on people too. I just don't see why that is relevant at all. How was he affected by art here? How is the fact games are an art form relevant to this situation? I'm just confused as to why you are bringing that into the conversation - because I don't disagree with that outlook at all.

 

[binvjoh]

I wasn't actually referring to the story in my previous post, but the fact that I feel it's perfectly natural and healthy to be emotionally affected by a game, movie, book, etc.

I agree that art should have an effect on people too. I just don't see why that is relevant at all. How was he affected by art here? How is the fact games are an art form relevant to this situation? I'm just confused as to why you are bringing that into the conversation - because I don't disagree with that outlook at all.

I'm bringing this up because you seemed to dismiss any sort of emotional impact this could have had on him simply because "it's just a game".

 

[Kortney]

I wasn't actually referring to the story in my previous post, but the fact that I feel it's perfectly natural and healthy to be emotionally affected by a game, movie, book, etc.

I agree that art should have an effect on people too. I just don't see why that is relevant at all. How was he affected by art here? How is the fact games are an art form relevant to this situation? I'm just confused as to why you are bringing that into the conversation - because I don't disagree with that outlook at all.

I'm bringing this up because you seemed to dismiss any sort of emotional impact this could have had on him simply because "it's just a game".

I see, but he was affected by another person, not an art form. My "it's just a game" comment was in no way referring to the video game industry itself - it's just a nice way of saying "stop whining and move on to another guild". I never advocate self victimisation over something as silly as some dick on the internet.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[gigastrike]

Why are people so kick-happy when it comes to guilds? It's not like he's doing anything that would hurt the guild.

 

[binvjoh]

I wasn't actually referring to the story in my previous post, but the fact that I feel it's perfectly natural and healthy to be emotionally affected by a game, movie, book, etc.

I agree that art should have an effect on people too. I just don't see why that is relevant at all. How was he affected by art here? How is the fact games are an art form relevant to this situation? I'm just confused as to why you are bringing that into the conversation - because I don't disagree with that outlook at all.

I'm bringing this up because you seemed to dismiss any sort of emotional impact this could have had on him simply because "it's just a game".

I see, but he was affected by another person, not an art form. My "it's just a game" comment was in no way referring to the video game industry itself - it's just a nice way of saying "stop whining and move on to another guild". I never advocate self victimisation over something as silly as some dick on the internet.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not the story we've been given is an accurate description of what happend.

 

[jaing1138]

-snip-

-snip-quote]

-snip-

-snip-

I'm not saying tough love, I was just commenting on people's attitudes and that he should have seen this coming.

I feel a bit of sympathy, but I really have a hard time feeling sympathy for someone I don't know, and will likely never known because I will likely never see them in real life. Would I have done the same thing in the Guild Leader's shoes? Not exactly, I would have said "alright, lets see what you can do still" and would have given him a chance, but he mentioned having a falling out with the leader, so how am I supposed to know that he was the "victim" without further proof? I can victimize myself in a lot of crap I've done, it's really simple, and even simpler online.


EDIT: And yes, I jacked up the quote thing... ahh well

That's fair enough, the subject was just a little too close to home for me a think.

 

[Littlee300]

How about you pack your shit in. Realise that there are WoW Guilds that play to win against the hardest content Blizzard can throw at them. You have to be a well oiled machine to do that, end of story Don't argue with me because I am right! <.<.

Oi, just preparation beforehand and he if ever made a mistake that actually caused a raid wipe they could tell him what he did wrong in one sentence and then revive. Unless he also had was dumb I have no sympathy for the guild.

Voice communication is the most effective system for about 90% of guilds. It takes rare talent and lots of experience to do the raids without it. I don't have that talent; so I rely on the voice chat.

If this guy has the talent, no doubt with good leadership he'll take his guild far. Which is the best way to get back at the crew that kicked him out; don't get mad, get even and then some.

DBM
He has been with the guild for 4 years already
it takes no more then 5 minutes to give him all the advice he needs

DBM does not allow for on the fly changes that may occur and typing them would take too long during an active encounter.

l: I said this before, they could tell him beforehand and saying DBM isn't too slow for me.

 

[shreedder]

I know I will sound like an ass, but yes they should have kicked him.

Think about it guilds use vent to communicate quickly in raids, most fights can be ruined in seconds with one wrong move, and typing is far too slow.

So if he kept trying to raid with these people he would have caused them to be wiped over and over, wasting both their times. Does anyone really want their time wasted?

Maybe he shouldn't have been kicked but, he definitely can't be raiding in a guild that uses vent.

 

[shreedder]

@ shreedder:
Vent/Voice chat is a crutch for a guild that doesn't know the encounters by heart yet. A good guild is able to not require vent once they have an encounter on weekly-farm rotation. The Deaf player could have very easily been put on either healing or DPS duty, either in a guaranteed raid spot or (more likely) being able to fill in when someone doesn't show up for a raid.

Booting someone from a guild because they can't use Vent is amateurish and childish. Its WRONG. There is no excuse for it, and MMOs in particular are designed to work around such issues particularly due to the sheer variety of race/class/gear combinations available that make raiding easier or harder.

Maybe I think Vent is needed because I haven't done much raiding sense vanilla 40's. But I have a friend who raided hard core back then.(he was 98th healer in America, I still make fun of him for that)This kid raided hard every night, and he and his guild needed vent. Ya they knew the fights, but things don't run smoothly every time, people mess up, a boss hits a bit harder than usual, placements of buffs/debuffs. You need vent for things like this, no amount of mods, or knowing the fight can help when fast decisions must be made.

again they should have not kicked him, but I agree with not letting him raid.

 

[Kelethor]

That...sucks. Too have too suffer something like this is awful, and then for the world to basically leave you...sucks.

I feel bad for the guy. he should start his own Deaf only guild.

 

[shreedder]

Booting someone from a guild because they can't use Vent is amateurish and childish. Its WRONG. There is no excuse for it, and MMOs in particular are designed to work around such issues particularly due to the sheer variety of race/class/gear combinations available that make raiding easier or harder.
Maybe I think Vent is needed because I haven't done much raiding sense vanilla 40's. But I have a friend who raided hard core back then.(he was 98th healer in America, I still make fun of him for that)This kid raided hard every night, and he and his guild needed vent. Ya they knew the fights, but things don't run smoothly every time, people mess up, a boss hits a bit harder than usual, placements of buffs/debuffs. You need vent for things like this, no amount of mods, or knowing the fight can help when fast decisions must be made.
again they should have not kicked him, but I agree with not letting him raid.

I agree that raiding has some degree of unpredictability, however a good player is able to adapt to things without outside input (voice chat). A healer has almost entirely-visual information on everyone in the raid, who needs healing and so on. The raid leader assigns the healers their roles and they do their thing. Tanking is undoubtedly the most difficult, hence having OTs and such that can take over if the MT falls. DPS is dps, you do the best you can, and even in 'pro' guilds with vent, DPS is often the first to fall.

Buffs last for 30 minutes to an hour now, for the most part. For everyone else they have mods that can remind them when to redo a buff or dispell a debuff (I believe it was 'Decurse' or whatever the newer version of that mod is). There's even a WoW built-in UI option to 'only show dispellable debuffs' as well as specific talents (at least for Holy Pallies) that enhance debuffing abilities. You plan debuffing in advance.

For bosses that hit a bit harder then usual, pally and warrior tanks both have a 'last stand' type of ability that lets them recover from a near-death by cheating death and having 35% (or possibly less) health afterwards.

WoW is a LOT easier than the old days of 40-person raids. Its even easier than the crazy-hard heroic-70 dungeons of TBC. Even a lot of fully-geared 5-man parties of 80s who didn't know the TBC heroic dungeons would get roflstomped by the bosses if they didn't know the encounters. WoW's easier than it used to be, and Cata only served to make things even more streamlined.

Voice chat isn't necessary, putting the guy in a DPS or even a healing role (to heal the melee dps for instance) wouldn't have negatively impacted the raids as long as he knew the encounter well enough.

Please give me some more specific examples of Cata-heroics or raids that require voice chat specifically.

again i haven't raided in some time, so giving specifics from cata is very hard. I must also point out good players can adapt, but you also need to let the 9+ other people what the new plan is. Calling out who got the random undispellable debuff timer bomb is critacle.

When I healed way way back I would have to announce mana levels, always be checking for things going wrong, when certain spells would be cast, who was picking siliencing at which time and the works. I always needed to talk on vent, and if i had to type we would have died.

Hell maybe all raiding has been nerfed to the point where a guild does not need to talk and continue to startigise during a fight, and if it is it makes me sad.

 

[shreedder]

Hell maybe all raiding has been nerfed to the point where a guild does not need to talk and continue to startigise during a fight, and if it is it makes me sad.

Bingo.
I'm thinking you missed out on the heavy-casualized-nerfing of LK dungeons in the last expansion, but yeah. Its easy-mode now, no voice chat really needed. You're thinking 40-man pre-TBC raids as well as any TBC heroics/raids. THOSE were damn tough, but its easy-mode now.

I blame all the damn DKs for the nerfs
They specifically redid tanking and everything purely to allow DKs to tank with a 2H weapon (in and of itself a pretty absurd idea, given that parrying isn't exactly something a tank wants to do since if a boss is parried, its next strike on you has a lower CD and you get hit more often).

I will save my theorycrafting for more appropriate sections but suffice it to say, I know tanking and healing pretty well

Ya a ran a few dungeons in Wrath, and they were piss easy. I've only run a few heroics in Cata, but I heard it got a little harder.