Writing tips
- Thread starter Robert B. Marks
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-This post applies to kinch's post even though I didn't quote him-
I've been reading walls of text all morning, and I got about 4/5 the way through these posts before scrolling to the bottom and typing in my post.
Sorry if I missed anything important.
Something about writing that I love is that none of my teachers throughout school thought I was any good at it. That's because they always had me writing about something that didn't inspire me and they wanted you to write in a particular format, be that as it may a creative style, essay, etc. When time came for final exams they would give us a topic to write about and say choose your own style. I was gleeful. I'd go through the whole year with a maybe 70% in the class, and then get high 90s on the final exam.
Though the topic was often uninspiring, the choice of the style of writing allowed me to flourish. In later years, after leaving school, I've also found the opposite to be true, that if you are confined to a specific format of writing (take for example an article), write about a topic you find enjoyable. An article on an abstract view of videogames sounds like something I might be able to write, whereas an article on coffee beans grown under heatlamps in the arctic sounds as stale to me as, well... watching the beans grow.
Essentially, if you're going to be writing about something, make sure it's something you like. The worst thing you can do to yourself is grind your way through a topic you'd rather beat with a sack full of decaying body parts.
Thats just my two cents though. ;P
I've been reading walls of text all morning, and I got about 4/5 the way through these posts before scrolling to the bottom and typing in my post.
Sorry if I missed anything important.
Something about writing that I love is that none of my teachers throughout school thought I was any good at it. That's because they always had me writing about something that didn't inspire me and they wanted you to write in a particular format, be that as it may a creative style, essay, etc. When time came for final exams they would give us a topic to write about and say choose your own style. I was gleeful. I'd go through the whole year with a maybe 70% in the class, and then get high 90s on the final exam.
Though the topic was often uninspiring, the choice of the style of writing allowed me to flourish. In later years, after leaving school, I've also found the opposite to be true, that if you are confined to a specific format of writing (take for example an article), write about a topic you find enjoyable. An article on an abstract view of videogames sounds like something I might be able to write, whereas an article on coffee beans grown under heatlamps in the arctic sounds as stale to me as, well... watching the beans grow.
Essentially, if you're going to be writing about something, make sure it's something you like. The worst thing you can do to yourself is grind your way through a topic you'd rather beat with a sack full of decaying body parts.
Thats just my two cents though. ;P
As a complete side-note, I have always wondered just how much alcohol was involved in Wuthering Heights getting into the literary canon. I had to read it for a literary criticism course, and it was the very first novel I have ever read where a character gives birth without going through the formality of being pregnant first...
(I think Emily Bronte might have been a bit fuzzy on the birds and the bees there...)
Best to all,
Robert Marks
(I think Emily Bronte might have been a bit fuzzy on the birds and the bees there...)
Best to all,
Robert Marks
Snuffler: The basic words counts are as follows, give or take a few thousand words...
Short story: 0-7,000
Novelet: 7,000-15,000
Novella: 15,000-30,000
Novel: 30,000+
As far as an average word count goes, that depends on the genre. Some genres, such as mystery, tend to prefer shorter words counts around 50-70,000 words. Fantasy tends to prefer 100,000 words and up.
A good rule is to just write the story or novel to be as long as it needs to be, and then worry about whether the length is saleable later.
Best regards,
Robert Marks
Short story: 0-7,000
Novelet: 7,000-15,000
Novella: 15,000-30,000
Novel: 30,000+
As far as an average word count goes, that depends on the genre. Some genres, such as mystery, tend to prefer shorter words counts around 50-70,000 words. Fantasy tends to prefer 100,000 words and up.
A good rule is to just write the story or novel to be as long as it needs to be, and then worry about whether the length is saleable later.
Best regards,
Robert Marks
Stammer: Um, no, it's a long essay. A novelet is fiction... 
And I'm glad you liked the tips. Please, ask questions - while I've got the time, I will answer them in a reasonably helpful way, and hopefully so will any other writers coming along...
Best to all,
Robert Marks
And I'm glad you liked the tips. Please, ask questions - while I've got the time, I will answer them in a reasonably helpful way, and hopefully so will any other writers coming along...
Best to all,
Robert Marks
Snuffler: Yes, I played Diablo and Diablo II. I also wrote a novella set in it (finally in print in two weeks after 8 long years as an e-book), and a column based on it...
Boy, did I ever play Diablo...
Best regards,
Robert Marks
Boy, did I ever play Diablo...
Best regards,
Robert Marks
I was well aware you wrote the novella set. I just had to make sure, because Diablo was and always will be an amazing game, and only a true fan could ever write something that did it justice. /eagerly awaits D3.
At any rate, Diablo has been a huge inspiration for alot of my literary adventures, despite my teachers constantly telling me that nobody likes sci-fi and fantasy. Well, almost every, if not all online communities would disagree with them. My teacher actually made a mockery of my short story that I wrote for a pre-exam warm up in grade 12, then passed it around so the other teachers could have a laugh. I then proceeded to go on and ace the written part of the final exam.
Which brings me to another point that might be useful for this topic, determination always prevails. If you go into writing with even a somewhat determined mindset you'll come out on the other side enlightened by the experience, regardless if your piece is published, or even recognized for that matter. Keep trying!
At any rate, Diablo has been a huge inspiration for alot of my literary adventures, despite my teachers constantly telling me that nobody likes sci-fi and fantasy. Well, almost every, if not all online communities would disagree with them. My teacher actually made a mockery of my short story that I wrote for a pre-exam warm up in grade 12, then passed it around so the other teachers could have a laugh. I then proceeded to go on and ace the written part of the final exam.
Which brings me to another point that might be useful for this topic, determination always prevails. If you go into writing with even a somewhat determined mindset you'll come out on the other side enlightened by the experience, regardless if your piece is published, or even recognized for that matter. Keep trying!
I'm very glad that I decided to read this post, because it's inspired me to start writing some more gaming pieces. Cheers Robert, and I was wondering, will you be around to occasionally offer criticism on the forums?
Strafe: I'm glad this inspired you. As far as offering criticism, we'll see - it depends on how much time I've got.
Best regards,
Robert Marks
Best regards,
Robert Marks
I'm in the same boat with Pedro; you know, the one where we're rowing in opposite directions and turning ourselves around in circles.
My biggest difficulty with finishing the book is plot. I'm a very character-oriented person (I'm fairly certain that comes from acting for as long as I have) and I'll think of wonderful characters but I'll put them somewhere with only a vague idea of where I want to go with it, and then it doesn't go there. Sometimes I can't think of something at all, and other times I'll think of something but think it's too weird or too crazy and that people will judge me for it. In short, the advice I need is in the "plot development" category. How does one go about coming up with an exciting plot-line? The most advice I find is that it's actually a more common problem than I originally thought, which is reassuring, but nobody says much that actually gets me anywhere.
I mean seriously, who tries to write when they don't know what they're writing about?
My biggest difficulty with finishing the book is plot. I'm a very character-oriented person (I'm fairly certain that comes from acting for as long as I have) and I'll think of wonderful characters but I'll put them somewhere with only a vague idea of where I want to go with it, and then it doesn't go there. Sometimes I can't think of something at all, and other times I'll think of something but think it's too weird or too crazy and that people will judge me for it. In short, the advice I need is in the "plot development" category. How does one go about coming up with an exciting plot-line? The most advice I find is that it's actually a more common problem than I originally thought, which is reassuring, but nobody says much that actually gets me anywhere.
I mean seriously, who tries to write when they don't know what they're writing about?
A very nice thread, and it's nice to see such a succesful author trying to help out others. (And anyone who's read the rules for doing such things knows what is coming now ) But there are a few things I have to comment on. The fifth point for example.
I have to disagree there, yes, in the example used adverbs weaken the sentence, but that is not always the case. They exist for a reason. Thinking that they are your enemy will limit your writing, used correctly they strengthen a sentence, and make things more interesting. Instead of your example compare "she snuck up behind her foe and placed her finger on the trigger" with "she quickly and gracefully snuck up behind her for and gently placed her finger on the trigger".
Your advice on writing a novel is something I have to disagree with as well. It's an approach that works for some, but not for everyone. I find that if I force myself to write, every day, or once a week, or any time really, I lose something in my writing. Sure, I can still produce a work that is adequate, perhaps even good, but there's still something missing. I see writing as a very artistic pursuit, and I am a firm believer in that you cannot force creativity. If you do you lose some of the inherent chaotic nature that makes it what it is. You lose some of your passion, some of your inspiration.
My advice instead is not to sit yourself down and write at 9 am every day. Just, when you don't have anything else to do, sit down, close your eyes for a few minutes and just think, you can write in the air or do something relaxing with your hands. See if you something strikes you, if you find both a good story and the words to convey it. If you do, try to write it, just write for a few minutes then with no editing, no rewriting. If everything still feels right, then, and only then, start writing for real. What you wrote from the start is probably going to be mostly useless, you're going to have to rework most of it to really fit in, but with that start, and with that text instead of just a white screen you have a base to work with, a shape to mold. This isn't something that will work for everyone either, I'm not saying that. But I know that if I tried to do it mechanically I would finish one, maybe two pages and then start to feel unclean inside. Start putting it off, and start think of myself as a bad writer, because I just can't do it. Writing when inspiration strikes though, I have been able to produce a lot of good texts. Planning is still important when writing something longer than a short story, but that can be done when you have a few texts ready, when you know you're writing the right thing. To plan something out completely beforehand and constrict yourself in such a way is not a good thing to do, you might stop yoursel from writing something great, or you might be going about it the wrong way. No matter how cool one idea seem from the start, perhaps that just isn't your style, or genre. Write a few texts first, see if everything fits. If it does, even after checking to see which of the you can work into the same novel, and throwing away more than half of them, then you're on the right track. If not then you at least have a few nice texts, you've gotten a bit of practice writing, and you didn't plan a huge thing out in vain.
) But there are a few things I have to comment on. The fifth point for example.I have to disagree there, yes, in the example used adverbs weaken the sentence, but that is not always the case. They exist for a reason. Thinking that they are your enemy will limit your writing, used correctly they strengthen a sentence, and make things more interesting. Instead of your example compare "she snuck up behind her foe and placed her finger on the trigger" with "she quickly and gracefully snuck up behind her for and gently placed her finger on the trigger".
Your advice on writing a novel is something I have to disagree with as well. It's an approach that works for some, but not for everyone. I find that if I force myself to write, every day, or once a week, or any time really, I lose something in my writing. Sure, I can still produce a work that is adequate, perhaps even good, but there's still something missing. I see writing as a very artistic pursuit, and I am a firm believer in that you cannot force creativity. If you do you lose some of the inherent chaotic nature that makes it what it is. You lose some of your passion, some of your inspiration.
My advice instead is not to sit yourself down and write at 9 am every day. Just, when you don't have anything else to do, sit down, close your eyes for a few minutes and just think, you can write in the air or do something relaxing with your hands. See if you something strikes you, if you find both a good story and the words to convey it. If you do, try to write it, just write for a few minutes then with no editing, no rewriting. If everything still feels right, then, and only then, start writing for real. What you wrote from the start is probably going to be mostly useless, you're going to have to rework most of it to really fit in, but with that start, and with that text instead of just a white screen you have a base to work with, a shape to mold. This isn't something that will work for everyone either, I'm not saying that. But I know that if I tried to do it mechanically I would finish one, maybe two pages and then start to feel unclean inside. Start putting it off, and start think of myself as a bad writer, because I just can't do it. Writing when inspiration strikes though, I have been able to produce a lot of good texts. Planning is still important when writing something longer than a short story, but that can be done when you have a few texts ready, when you know you're writing the right thing. To plan something out completely beforehand and constrict yourself in such a way is not a good thing to do, you might stop yoursel from writing something great, or you might be going about it the wrong way. No matter how cool one idea seem from the start, perhaps that just isn't your style, or genre. Write a few texts first, see if everything fits. If it does, even after checking to see which of the you can work into the same novel, and throwing away more than half of them, then you're on the right track. If not then you at least have a few nice texts, you've gotten a bit of practice writing, and you didn't plan a huge thing out in vain.
Silvertounge: I think that you can combine your advice and mine together with the phrase "find what works for you." There is no right way to do this - for example, I actually write my non-commissioned work (like books) in spurts. When it comes to my commissioned work, though (and that includes a couple of books), I sit down and pound my way through it.
Motivation is also an important factor. I haven't written a lot of fiction lately because I work at my best when I have a contract signed, and I'm already two full length novels ahead of what is published. But, I write a LOT of short non-fiction right now, most of it under commission. So, when you're trying to get a start, find something to motivate you to keep going, and try to stay motivated.
And, to add one more, very important point:
15. Read. Read a LOT. Nothing is written in a vacuum, and the more voracious a reader you are, the better a writer you will be. And if you're writing fiction, make sure you read outside of what you are writing. When it comes to writing, it is better to be a generalist than a specialist.
Best to all,
Robert Marks
Motivation is also an important factor. I haven't written a lot of fiction lately because I work at my best when I have a contract signed, and I'm already two full length novels ahead of what is published. But, I write a LOT of short non-fiction right now, most of it under commission. So, when you're trying to get a start, find something to motivate you to keep going, and try to stay motivated.
And, to add one more, very important point:
15. Read. Read a LOT. Nothing is written in a vacuum, and the more voracious a reader you are, the better a writer you will be. And if you're writing fiction, make sure you read outside of what you are writing. When it comes to writing, it is better to be a generalist than a specialist.
Best to all,
Robert Marks
Hehe, gee, thanks for that one. I'm designing and writing for the elven nations in Warrior of Eternity. Not that those are mainstream elves, and even you would think they're awesome, I'm just that cool.Mr Wednesday said:
It does remind me of a good point. Be innovative. Using established races, settings and so on can work for a while, but if you don't bring anything new to it it's just another clone. No one will care in the least. So if you're going to use elves, dwarves, orcs, ogres, laserswords or super-space ships, be careful and think about what purpose they serve. They can work very well in getting the reader to feel comfortable and at home, make the reader know what to expect a little. It gives you a familiar base to work on. But if you write a story focusing closely on that thing you have to bring something new to it, or the reader will lose interest.
To summarize, and broaden the rule a little, be careful with what you write and when you introduce new elements think of what purpose they serve and if they are needed for that purpose or if something else can fulfill it better. This goes more for fiction than reviews, but it applies there as well with metaphores, quotes and references.