WTH do you mean by generic?

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bushwhacker2k

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Drakmeire said:
really? all shooters are different?
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/2/7/5/25275.jpg?v=1
Yeah, I think this calls for a:

http://arthropoda.southernfriedscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/facepalm.jpg

Pretty much destroyed the OP... or at least in the (somewhat unlikely) case he was being totally sincere, made a darn good argument.
 

MiracleOfSound

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Drakmeire said:
me which game it's from.
http://ui02.gamespot.com/1825/cod418_2.jpg
tell me
That's quite obviously COD4.

You can tell from the objective compass and the way the M4 is designed, particularly the red dot sight.
 

Nexus4

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Minimalism in my opinion, when a company only does the basics and doesn't attempt their own personal touch.
bushwhacker2k said:
Drakmeire said:
really? all shooters are different?
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/2/7/5/25275.jpg?v=1
Yeah, I think this calls for a:

http://arthropoda.southernfriedscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/facepalm.jpg

Pretty much destroyed the OP... or at least in the (somewhat unlikely) case he was being totally sincere, made a darn good argument.
To be fair though, both Call of Duty and Medal of Honor were going for the 'authentic' (I'm hesitant to use the term realistic anymore) military experience. In a modern setting how many different was can you expect to model an M4 or M16 rifle authentically without them looking remarkably similar in their own regards. Both companies attempted the same thing, so of course they would look very similar to one another. Killzone 2 on the other hand kinda falls flat in it's weapon designs for a 'futuristic shooter' and many guns end up looking generic. However, in saying that, there are unique things about them. Killzone had kick ass vehicle sections and some rather epic designs in the vehicles, spacecraft, and enemies. Modern Warfare 2 had epic set-pieces using an imaginative invasion of Washington D.C. and awesome chase scenes in snow mobiles. Medal of Honor...had...actually MOH was just generic.


Still the exact same game?
 

rockingnic

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Drakmeire said:
really? all shooters are different?
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/2/7/5/25275.jpg?v=1
Ummm, I'm sorry but images tell you shit about a game. I bet if you did the same thing to Half-Life, it'll be generic as well with the spas shotgun or the glock, which is in many FPSs. So HL is the same to CoD by your statement.
 

WanderingFool

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To the untrained (i.e. normal person's) eye, they are all looking the same, but they are incredibly different...

Serious now, really, there are differences, but if you dont play FPS games that often, in many cases everything can look like COD. Course Im waiting for Brink to blow the generic FPS trope out of the fucking water... for a few months until MW3 comes out...
 

omicron1

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There is some merit in the observation that FPSs tend to be nearly identical in many ways nowadays. There are four main things I note here that pretty much define the games' character: Setting, Color Balance (visual appeal), Weapons, and Interface.

* The color balance is identical - grey+brown+red. This contributes massively to the criticisms of sameness. And no, having the occasional white snow level doesn't mean you've put color in your game.

* The weapons are pretty much identical across all modern shooters - not so much with Killzone. This happened with World War II shooters as well.

* The setting varies in the individual games (aside from Killzone, which (from an outsider's perspective) appears to be different ruined areas of the same industrial planet) but one thing I've noticed is that the variation tends to the same set of "backdrops": Tundra, Desert, Forest, Jungle, City. Maybe sometimes a suburban area for good measure. And furthermore, each game tends to hit most if not all of these setting types during its run.

* The interface is largely standardized, but this is to be expected. Sadly, it means that playing the games is a very similar experience no matter which you pick. Few surprises here.


This has happened before. At least twice before, within the FPS genre even - the explosion of Doomalikes and the oversaturation of World War II shooters. Same basic checkpoints - interface, setting, weapons, color balance.

But it has also happened in other genres. Most notably and recently, in the Total War genre. Try looking up these games sometime, especially if you're not a fan of the genre, and see how similar they appear (They're all on Gamer's Gate, if you're curious, aside from Medieval: Total War):

First, we have the Creative Assembly's myriad games:

Shogun
Medieval
Rome
Medieval 2
Empire
Napoleon
Shogun 2

- all pretty much identical in gameplay and style, but this is forgivable considering their parent company invented and personifies the genre. Complaining about this would be like complaining that all the Civilization games look and play similarly.

But let's look farther - at the imitators, the genre members:

The Kings' Crusade
Real Warfare: 1242
King Arthur
Strength and Honour 2
Imperial Glory
Sango 2
Takeda 3
XIII Century: Death or Glory
Crusaders: Thy Kingdom Come

And, in a rare modern (or WWII, at least) example, Pacific Storm.

Yes, they're all in the same genre, but look at the overt similarities:
* Realistic/war movie visual tone (except for the ones with 2's by their names - they're older and by Eastern companies - and notably they all share the same gray appearance)

* Historical theme, mostly about the Medieval and Renaissance periods.

* Standardized interface: Camera controls, unit cards at the bottom of the screen, orders, identity flags for units.

* Very similar gameplay. Tactics, moving battalions around on the battlefield, charge and retreat, with a turn-based side to tie the battles together - reskin these and you probably couldn't tell the difference without spending a good bit of effort.



So in sum, yeah, game developers tend to copy a lot. If you like the copied aspects, this is a good thing; if not, not so much. But "generic" carries a heckuva lot of weight as an argument if you look at the evidence.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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In the common usage, generic is a tautology and therefore utterly meaningless.

When someone says "This gun is generic", it doesn't really tell us anything. The finer points that distinguish a quality firearm from a mass produced Chinese piece of garbage are all but impossible to relate in a video game. At the end of it all, the first person shooter has only had a few basic types of weapons:

Weapons who's rounds travel to a target in the same frame in which they are fired (the Railgun from Quake for example), or a weapon who's rounds actually take time to travel (any weapon in Battlefield Bad Company 2).

From there, there are only a few distinguishing characteristics:
Weapons that affect an area
Weapons that affect a target

People might look at that list and think it awfully short but Wolfenstein 3D only featured two of these (all weapons were hit-scan and all affected a single target). Yes, you can modify any number of values to offer a distinction between any two weapons but the functional difference between the FAMAS and the M-16 in Modern Warfare 2 is all but irrelevant.

Art direction is another point where this makes little sense. Sure, every military first person shooter looks fairly similar but then one will find that is because modern militaries all look very similar.

What you really find is that generic accurately refers to any game belonging to any particular genre. This is because the word generic refers to "traits shared by all members of a genus". Thus, when there is a glut of "modern military first person shooters" one will find they are defined by a similar set of characteristics. If we take the biology metaphor further, the genre would be a higher order classification (for example, class), the games that fit a generic pattern would be a genus, and the particular game would be a species.

Are modern FPS games generic? Yes, but that is because a particular game of the genus "modern military shooter" sold enormously well a few years back and it's sequel did even better leading everyone in the world to say "Well maybe we should get on that money train".

This isn't a new thing. When a game takes tens of millions of dollars to produce, people tend to back the product that has the best possible chance of success. Sure, it's good to take risks every now and then (how else do people find the new money train?), but such risks are rare indeed at the AAA level.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Jrpg is different, you may call the characters generic but most of the time the setting or story has a certain twist as well as the type of abilities you have.

Breath of Fire and Dragon Quest are both purely fantasy themed stories but they have completely different conventions for example.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Neverhoodian said:
Basically, any FPS that has all of the following is often described as "generic,"
I already pointed out my thoughts on the specifics of "generic". The thing is, this isn't new

Take Wolfenstein 3D as an exmaple, it provided a template that looks a little something like this:

1) The game treats health as a collectible resource
2) The PC can carry every weapon in the game simultaneously without effort
3) Enemies absorb arbitrary amounts of damage before they die
4) The levels are constructed as a maze
5) Keys may be required to progress

Now, consider the following list of games that takes us all the way up to 2001 (from 1992).

Doom (Technical upgrades from wolfenstein, introduced area of effect weapons and projectiles with travel time. Introduced rudimentary multiplayer)
Marathon (Similar to doom in terms of advancements, minus multiplayer)
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold (Similar to Doom)
Rise of the Triad (Similar to Doom. Introduced more vertical elements to the game)
Quake (Popular push to 3D from the previous sprite based technology. Community efforts (quakeworld, gamespy) made the game a multiplayer experience for the masses)
Duke Nukem 3D (Still similar to Doom. Level construction attempts to create a more plausible setting but still inevitably a maze)
Quake 2 (Most similar to Quake. A retread with refinements. Multiplayer became a focus)
Unreal: (Enormous technical advancements from previous games. First wildly popular game where the player traveled logically between areas. Strong move towards narrative adaptation)
Half-Life (Similar to Unreal. Ultimately more popular).

Counterstrike (Released as a beta mod for Half-Life. Runaway success of the game was the mark of the transition to many of the modern things pointed out above).
Halo (The game's enormous popularity was sufficient to generate most of the remaining modern ideas you point out).

While there were plenty of FPS games produced during this period that did not strictly follow the Wolfenstein model (Descent for example), there are still dozens of lesser known games that I could place on that list. These games were made because they sold well. It took people with nothing to lose (the mod team that made Counter-Strike) to break from the cycle and a major commercial release to set the new standard.

The thing is, when you define games strictly by such things, it is easy to assert that the games were identical. While Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold certainly feels exactly like a Doom clone (which is not an entirely reasonable designation given that it was released mere months after Doom), few would assert that Unreal was exactly like Wolfenstein even if they shared a list of common traits.

It is those finer details that distinguish games. Sure, plenty of games on the market right now are "Modern Warfare" in all but name but would one really say that Halo: Reach is so generic because it shares common traits with such things?
 

Erana

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Drakmeire said:
really? all shooters are different?
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/2/7/5/25275.jpg?v=1
To me, its a matter of flavor.
Whatever the differences in game mechanics, they still function fairly similarly, and try all too hard to capture the same sort of gritty war action.

Let's look at a few other games that are strikingly similar in gameplay, but of another genre:
Say, Jack and Daxter to Ratchet and Clank.
Do I really need to list the similarities?

Of course, each of them has a different cast of characters, a different world, different aesthetic, different sort of humor, (as in use of horticulture, species and technology in the visuals, not the similar cartoon-y style) and different tone to the events within the world that drive the story.
The differences are what really stand out, which while leaving them related, separates them enough to not be twins.

You could also bring Sly Cooper into the mix for a greater deviation from these two while retaining the core "Cartoon 3D platformer with an animal protagonist" thing.
 

IamSofaKingRaw

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Drakmeire said:
IamSofaKingRaw said:
Drakmeire said:
snip
the regenerating health wasn't what I meant.
look at the screen shots. same gun, same looking environment, same blood effect, and the same red half-circle that tells you where the shots came from. if all FPS games had a regenerating health bar, that's fine, but they have the same guns and graphics. I guarantee that if I showed you a screenshot of an fps, you wouldn't be able to tell me which game it's from.
http://ui02.gamespot.com/1825/cod418_2.jpg
tell me
COD? Anyway, no your point is still off. KZ looks nothing like COD, or Halo, or Battlefield, and the same goes for the other games. They all play different to. Can you honestly say that playing KZ2 and COD felt the same? HELL NO

Can you tell me the difference between this



And this

[img src=http://admintell.napco.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/halo_reach_1.jpg]

A majority of games look different and play different. No just because guns look the same (the games are based on some form of real life) they are not the same.

PS. If you think KZ has the same graphics as COD or Medal of Honour you need to get your eyes checked.
 

IamSofaKingRaw

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bushwhacker2k said:
Drakmeire said:
really? all shooters are different?
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/2/7/5/25275.jpg?v=1
Yeah, I think this calls for a:

http://arthropoda.southernfriedscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/facepalm.jpg

Pretty much destroyed the OP... or at least in the (somewhat unlikely) case he was being totally sincere, made a darn good argument.
Yup regenerating health and the bloody screen (for convieneice) is in most shooters. Woe is me all shooters are the same./s

Can you honestly tell me that KZ plays like any other shooter out there? Can you say Halo plays like any shooter out there. Can you say Resistance plays like any shooter out there? See my point? Looking at a screenshot of a feature that is placed is most shooters to make it convenient for players (unless its SOCOM why wouldn't you want regen health is a shooter, it'd be nearly impossible to win a higher difficulties and it'd put players off the game).That picture shows nothing. I guess all RTS's are generic because they have a top down view and allow you to build factories etc.. that can deploy units. Right?
 

bushwhacker2k

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IamSofaKingRaw said:
Yup regenerating health and the bloody screen (for convieneice) is in most shooters. Woe is me all shooters are the same./s

Can you honestly tell me that KZ plays like any other shooter out there? Can you say Halo plays like any shooter out there. Can you say Resistance plays like any shooter out there? See my point? Looking at a screenshot of a feature that is placed is most shooters to make it convenient for players (unless its SOCOM why wouldn't you want regen health is a shooter, it'd be nearly impossible to win a higher difficulties and it'd put players off the game).That picture shows nothing. I guess all RTS's are generic because they have a top down view and allow you to build factories etc.. that can deploy units. Right?
It's not really the viewpoint, so much as the fact that all have the same weapon at the same angle.

I loved Halo 1 when it first came out though, felt revolutionary.

Honestly, even though I call them generic, if I played them I probably would still think they were alright. But it doesn't change the fact that an FPS coming out with 'slightly improved' things is routine now. When a new FPS comes out, it isn't really that different from the last FPS that came out.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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Drakmeire said:
that... is just creepy. I have never payed close attention to any gun that much ever. unless it looks really cool.
What sold it to me was the color of the subtitle. The Modern Warfare series has that distinctive green color name with white font of the words spoken.
 

Zaik

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It's blah samey mehness.

Like, for example, I have Neverwinter Nights 2 and Dragon Age: Origins. If I've been playing one for a bit, it's late, and I'm tired, I can forget which one I'm playing and and have to look to figure it out. Besides being a somewhat different story and slightly different look graphically, they're pretty much the *exact* same game. The basic functioning of the game never really improved, even from all the way back when it was Baldur's Gate. Hell, they could have used the same engine with very minor improvements and tweaks for all of them because of how samey they are.