WW2 had two sides. Why do we never talk about the other one...

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May 6, 2009
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Ninjamedic said:
Lord Monocle Von Banworthy said:
Ah I see, thanks for politely correcting me rather than flaming.
In that case i retract my statement.
No problem. I always try to remember Hanlon's Razor. If you had argued subsequently with no sources to back you up I'd have been irate from then. I don't really care so much about these artificial distinctions everybody makes in war, with things like civilians vs. military, spies vs. combatants, nukes vs. conventional weapons...

Soldiers are some mother's sons too. They're not more or less people than civilians. Nuclear weapons don't kill you any deader than conventional weapons. If you gave me a choice between getting vaporized in Nagasaki and getting chopped up with a machete in Somalia I'd pick the nuke every time.

We're awfully hung up as a species on parceling out our murder only to people who we can convince ourselves have volunteered for it and doing it in whatever way the cool kids are doing it this century. Our current style is to do it as cleanly as possible and to use chemical explosives if possible. Nuclear explosives are right out and chemicals applied directly to the victim aren't cool. They must instead be used to propel bits of metal into a human body. A hundred years from now maybe we'll use nothing but poison gases and be obsessed with killing people without leaving marks on them because a pretty corpse is more humane to the family.

I guess all I was saying with that last paragraph is that Hiroshima isn't more evil than Dresden because it was a nuke and not a chemical bomb, and it's not more evil than Normandy just because it killed children instead of conscripted teenagers and twenty-somethings with rifles in their hands.
 

Warlordnipple

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Sep 9, 2010
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Well the Japanese civilians were being handed explosives and the children were being taught to run under tanks with bombs. So the Nukes actually saved a lot of Japanese lives as well. They could at least tell themselves that the thought of invading them was so scary we decided to nuke them instead.

Germans pretty obviously hate themselves for Hitler, that just clearly got out of hand and they were not really sure what they were getting themselves into, I mean it is illegal to have a picture of hitler in germany or be a nazi now, neither of which are illegal in America
 

lukemdizzle

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Diamondback One said:
lukemdizzle said:
though my grandpa who fought in the battle of Manila would agree that the Bombs should never have been dropped without at least a warning.
You do know that they DID give them a warning, they said for them to surrender or there will be unleashed a new weapon against Japan. They ignored it. Bomb dropped, city gone. They warned them again to surrender, they ignored it, second bomb dropped. Only after two warnings did they quit. America didn't want to, but it knew it was necessary.
The United States gave no warning, none whatsoever of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki Bombings.
The U.S did however drop leaflets over various Cities telling the Japanese that they were not the enemy, that their government was the enemy.
That is as close a warning they got, the U.S never mentioned they had Nuclear weapons, nor did they tell the Japanese they had the most powerful bomb ever designed by man, it's all lies and myths.
 

Devil's Due

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lukemdizzle said:
it's all lies and myths.
Wow... I can tell you're a conspiracy theorist now. Okay, believe that if you want. But do know this: America DID warn Japan that they would drop a different bomb on another city every day until Japan surrendered after the first bomb, which Japan didn't believe. Don't censor out parts of history because it doesn't fit what at least your grandfather said, he doesn't have the full story, either.
 

lukemdizzle

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Diamondback One said:
lukemdizzle said:
it's all lies and myths.
Wow... I can tell you're a conspiracy theorist now. Okay, believe that if you want. But do know this: America DID warn Japan that they would drop a different bomb on another city every day until Japan surrendered after the first bomb, which Japan didn't believe. Don't censor out parts of history because it doesn't fit what at least your grandfather said, he doesn't have the full story, either.
wait to not quote all the other historically accurate things I said and dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist. Im not going off my grandfathers word hear Im going off of research I did for a history project about WWII. ask your history teacher if you don't believe me. I told you exactly what happened. america dropped letters over Japanese cities, but these letters said nothing about The Bomb, or any specific cities. look it up an answer. I didn't want an argument here but you dismiss me as a know nothing conspiracy theorist and bring my grandpa into the argument even though my point had only to do with his opinion. what the hell?
 
Nov 24, 2010
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Kenko said:
The germans can take pride in their fallen ancestors. The vast majority of the german army were fighting to for their home and fatherland like everyone else did. Only assholes were the real nazi's. The SS, Gestapo and so on. They pretty much coerced germany into war. Everyday germans didnt really have much choice but either shut up and do as they say or get shot like the rest.
Sadly its not so easy.
A part of the Police were "choosen" to form "Einsatzkommandos" at WWII. They had to exterminate partisans, sinti,roma, jews and "assoziale" (criminals, homeless etc) while the army was invading Russia (unternehmen Barbarossa)

This people were free to deny. No consequences. But most of them didnt gon home. they stayed. (they thought of it as a "liability", a "duty".)

That were fathers, men with families ans maybe nice people too. (one was a poet)
(i´ve read a book about the Einsatzkommando.)
and the members of the Einsatzkommandos-they disliked their "work" (some diarys were found, so the though of few members of the ek were documentated.They were also citated in the book I mentioned above)
but they´ve done it. Some of theme were traumatised, but soon they got accustomed.

At school, we learn much about, because wo should not forget about. We hear often: "this should never ever happen again"

But if you demonize only the fuhrer and the politics, you taking the responsibility away.
The holocaust began early. soon after the nazis won the "election", laws were made. Afer a short time the jews were excluded from social life. They were demonized. At the reichskristallnacht their synagogues were burnt, their shops destroyed and many of them died. (At my hometown, one was shot in the synagogue,then they was set on fire, burning the dying boy inside)
The civilans didnt help. maybe they feared the ss, but many of them thought of the jews as "untermenschen".

I dont feel guilty for the things my greatgrandparents and grandparents may have done. but i am interested to know why the "normal german" could live at this times so peaceful*. but these things you don´t learn at school.


i think, that´s very,very important to know, why normal policemen learnt killing children, women, men. Its important, because only if you know how to manipulate people to kill harmless and defenseless people you know how prevent it. and how to aware.
if you say "this never could happen to me" than you dont think about, which factors could get you so far. I for my self, need to know that the hell was going on inside the heads of this men.

concernment doesnt help against atrocities. sadly, at school you mostly learn to b concerned about the things our grandparents have done (my grandma was member of the hj and the bund deutscher mädchen. like many others. it was part of their life. they hat friends their, spendet time together. the nazis attained almost all parts of the german life. interfused it.





*maybe except those, which lived near concentrationcamps like bergen belsen, buchenwald or dachau. they saw the poor people. much of them might have thought, that the inhabitant were guilty. or that "this" was needed to save them from the enemy..maybe they feared the gestapo and ss so they never criticised.



(i hope you get what i wanted to tell. have write more english texts. so, sorry for this. didnt use my english since abitur and never have written about such comlex topics))
 

ICanBreakTheseCuffs

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Jekken6 said:
I think the main reason why the nuke was dropped on Japan was because they wouldn't give up otherwise and it was the only way to get them to stop.
yea,and also if we invaded it probably cause more destruction than just two cities. The entire island would probably be decimated.

OT:well apparently everyone on the internet bases everyone else on their part in word war 2 or the cold war EX:you're german so you a nazi(remember,it's just a example).and from the german side:you're American so you're a b**** a*** fa**** piece o' sh**. because you pwned our ass in WW2,and you're too arrogant
 

Mr.Mattress

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Jul 17, 2009
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martin said:
The Japanese would have dominated Asia, and Germany would have dominated Europe, North America would be whoever got there first.
Pop Question: When would you think Japan and Germany would go to war? Cause as we all know, Hitler was a blatant racist and it said in Mein Kampf that the Earth was to be a German Earth. Certainly the world couldn't be a German Earth if their are Japanese occupying Parts of Russia and America, all of China, the Pacific Islands and Australia, could it? And for that matter, how long would it take till Germany conquered Italy?

OT: The reason we never hear from the other side is because, well, they did some pretty bad stuff, and while we should never blame or punish the citizens of the respective countries, we shouldn't be making the countries (at the time) out to be some sort of underdog that just couldn't.
 

Death916

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Apr 21, 2008
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Ninjamedic said:
The problem lies with the fact that they chose civilian cities, not high priority military targets.
If they hit military it wouldn't have ha the desired effect, which was shocking the Japanese into a quick surrender. Just be glad they didnt hit more populated cities, or Tokyo.
 

Altorin

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May 16, 2008
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Well, I'm pretty sure World War 2 is the most documented war ever. Both sides have been examined a lot over the past 60 years.

DeathSnipa1992 said:
Ninjamedic said:
The problem lies with the fact that they chose civilian cities, not high priority military targets.
If they hit military it wouldn't have ha the desired effect, which was shocking the Japanese into a quick surrender. Just be glad they didnt hit more populated cities, or Tokyo.
I'm pretty sure if you nuke ANYWHERE, the military gets the message. They could have nuked out in the middle of the ocean outside japan's ports, and just said to japan "We have more of these" and they'd have surrendered. The war was almost over anyway, America just wanted a chance to make a strong stance against the soviets. Those 2 bombs in Japan proved to the world that nuclear bombs certainly did have the destructive power to destroy civilization, and so america and the soviets stalled their assaults at eachother (sometimes by merely minutes) to avoid mutually assured destruction. Without the destruction of those two Japanese Cities, I'm left to wonder if they would have held back long enough for the soviet union to fall apart all on its own.
 

astrav1

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Jul 6, 2009
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We were taught to think for ourselves after them telling us what it was all about and the possibilities of what might happen.
 

Kurokami

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Feb 23, 2009
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martin said:
If the Germans/Japanese/Italians/and the others, had won, we'd be grateful to the Nazi regime for liberating us from the threat of genetic impurity. In fact, celebrations made to recognise those lost in World War Two would be celebrating those who died fighting to protect ourselves from the Jewish menace.

We'd be in space a lot earlier had the Axis won, that's the only thing I see as a positive. The Germans had such a promising future in technology at the end of the war, superior Rockets, the first military jet fighters.

The Japanese would have dominated Asia, and Germany would have dominated Europe, North America would be whoever got there first.

We'd be damn glad about the whole thing too...

We'd be none the wiser, really.

And for those who suggest the German soldiers didn't know what they were fighting for, do you think the lowly Allied soldier knew?
You think when their fighting over genetics that after they each got their respected halves of the world, they would simply stop? I don't see their genocide ever working out to be honest. Nor do I think everybody believed in it, or would. There will (I hope to god) always be critical thinkers out there wondering about whether everything they've been told is less than the absolute.
Mr.Mattress said:
martin said:
The Japanese would have dominated Asia, and Germany would have dominated Europe, North America would be whoever got there first.
Pop Question: When would you think Japan and Germany would go to war? Cause as we all know, Hitler was a blatant racist and it said in Mein Kampf that the Earth was to be a German Earth. Certainly the world couldn't be a German Earth if their are Japanese occupying Parts of Russia and America, all of China, the Pacific Islands and Australia, could it? And for that matter, how long would it take till Germany conquered Italy?

OT: The reason we never hear from the other side is because, well, they did some pretty bad stuff, and while we should never blame or punish the citizens of the respective countries, we shouldn't be making the countries (at the time) out to be some sort of underdog that just couldn't.
You don't think Japan would instigate the attack as well as Germany in that case?

The Germans had a hard time then since World War 1 was pretty much solely blamed on them and they were forced to pay every other country off for it. (Perhaps my facts are a bit hazy, but I'm pretty sure that's right) Them looking for someone to blame isn't exactly surprising, nor would I be surprised if they felt shunned after the incident was blamed on them, so when a leader comes claiming superiority and some payback on people, it wouldn't be that hard to see people following him, would it?

I'm not saying genocide is justified, but I can certainly sympathize with how such a war could begin.
 

martin's a madman

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Aug 20, 2008
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Mr.Mattress said:
martin said:
The Japanese would have dominated Asia, and Germany would have dominated Europe, North America would be whoever got there first.
Pop Question: When would you think Japan and Germany would go to war? Cause as we all know, Hitler was a blatant racist and it said in Mein Kampf that the Earth was to be a German Earth. Certainly the world couldn't be a German Earth if their are Japanese occupying Parts of Russia and America, all of China, the Pacific Islands and Australia, could it? And for that matter, how long would it take till Germany conquered Italy?

OT: The reason we never hear from the other side is because, well, they did some pretty bad stuff, and while we should never blame or punish the citizens of the respective countries, we shouldn't be making the countries (at the time) out to be some sort of underdog that just couldn't.
That's true, I'd imagine Japan would be less capable of gaining power than Post-War Germany would have been able. It would probably be as soon as the Alliance became an inconvenience.
 

martin's a madman

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Kurokami said:
Well, look at the celebrations we have remembering those who fought against Germany. Most seem willing to agree that is the 'right' thing to do without thinking of it. Anyone who does question that the allies' side was the correct side morally is intellectually ostracised.

People have become almost incapable of questioning that moral standard, if the situation were reversed, I suggest the same attitude would be held for the scenario I described earlier.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Hmm, weren't there three sides to WW2?
Russia didn't have any particularly great love for the rest of the Allied forces; they made that clear in the years following Germany's surrender.