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Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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Actually the RNG does favor the computer on Classic and Impossible - the Aliens get a +10% and +20% bonus to their RNG rolls on those difficulties.

Which is basically cheating. They can succeed on way more bad shots and poor positions than you can. Its classic Fireaxis "difficulty" - the AI doesn't get any better at the game, they just get to cheat more on higher difficulties.
 

Quazimofo

New member
Aug 30, 2010
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Paragon Fury said:
So I finally got X-Com: Enemy Unknown as an early birthday present (mine is on Dec. 26) and have been trying to play it for the last few days.

I'm no stranger to strategy games. I've bent many an RTS and TBS to my will. Civilization except on the hardest difficulty (where the computer is allowed to cheat) poses no challenge to me.

And though I didn't get to play the original X-Com, this new one shouldn't pose too much of a problem, right? Apply real-life squad tactics, use my head, take it slow, exploit LoS, everything will be fine. A few people may die, but hey, that is what happens in desperate battles, right?

Except I can't bend the rules of bullshit to my will. The things that happen are the most aggravating things...and always against my favor.

Even uninjured SGTs. panic if a fly farts nearby them (though ironically, they seem to have better aim when panic'd than normally). Even with good LoS, height advantage and flanking, my soldiers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if they were inside it. They die if the aliens use harsh language.

Meanwhile the aliens pull off impossible shots (I've seen an alien on Overwatch hit a Dashing' soldier through a wall, a tree and a car window before), are unshakable and can take a good deal of damage.

I feel like I'm losing not because of bad tactics....but because a RNG is saying "F#$%@ you. I don't like you." I know its supposed to be a hard game.......but it feels like its hard not because of tactics, planning and strategy but because of random chance and BS.
This sounds more like a case of colossal bad luck. What difficulty are you playing on? That tends to skew the numbers against you. But yeah, there is nothing you really can do besides keep your guys in hard cover, focus fire, build in redundancy in case crucial shots miss, and take as few risks as will keep your guys alive but not stagnate tech. It is a fine balance, since you really need those alloys and fragments, and the free plasma guns are fuck awesome, but risky as shit to acquire, and replacing veterans is absolutely terrible to go through, not to mention that the panic problems you have had get even worse with rookies.

Ive not played xcom games before this one, but basically, you are clearly capable of winning this game, you just need 1. some practice and 2. your troubles stem almost exclusively from exponentially bad luck, so there is little to be done about that besides save scumming.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Feb 3, 2010
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Paragon Fury said:
Actually the RNG does favor the computer on Classic and Impossible - the Aliens get a +10% and +20% bonus to their RNG rolls on those difficulties.

Which is basically cheating. They can succeed on way more bad shots and poor positions than you can. Its classic Fireaxis "difficulty" - the AI doesn't get any better at the game, they just get to cheat more on higher difficulties.
This isn't Civilization, where you have 8 AI "players" all ostensibly meant to be operating under the same rule set in order to create a level playing field. There is no level playing field. The alien is defending, you are attacking. The alien moves when discovered, you do not. The alien has greater numbers than you do. The alien accelerates tech independently of what you are doing. Etc, etc, etc. This is not checkers. The sides are not even. Whether the aliens have a slight accuracy bonus or not is completely irrelevant. If you can't cope with a higher difficulty level, I suggest not playing on it. Choosing it and then complaining that it's too hard because the enemy gets too many advantages is just the height of ridiculousness. There is an easy setting for a reason.

As I have previously stated, there is plenty of footage of people succeeding at the highest difficulty levels using the tactics and strategies you claim are not applicable because of the RNG. You can either peruse those tactics and improve your game play, or you can drop to a difficulty level more befitting your present ability with the game, or you can continue to moan about how the AI is "cheating". The choice is up to you, really.
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Ultratwinkie said:
That's actually original XCOM mechanics.

Dumb shits shooting your commander? Check

Easily scared auto dipshits? Check

The NECESSITY to look at your soldiers' stats or they become liabilities? Check

The RNG is there to make sure you don't keep reloading and hoping you get the outcome you wanted, even with a 1% shot.
The primary difference is that in the original XCOM, you could bring 10 pants-crapping rookies to use as cannon fodder, allowing your elite team to sit back and pick off all the aliens.

In this, you lose one guy and it's a disaster.
It's like playing chess with just a King and a Queen.
 

Salad Is Murder

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Oct 27, 2007
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I gather the material components to cast: WALL OF TEXT!

Hargrimm said:
How are concepts like weight, stamina and elevation obtuse? Are you even human ;)? These are things every human being has encountered in their lives. They might not know the exact numbers, but a heavier load causing fatigue is not a difficult concept to grasp at all. People having to rest and catch their breath isn't either. Strength is self explanatory in the context of items having weight.
Also, read the fucking manual.
Okay, first of all, don't be that guy. We weren't having a semantics argument before you showed up and we're certainly not going to start one now.

And let's read the manual, since it's soooo clear right? I reinstalled the Collector's Edition (I keep an ISO of my CD-ROM of it on my Ipod) and took a look at it, it's a PDF, yay!

"Strength - the soldier's Strength. This affects the distance which the
soldier can throw objects."

Yeah, that's it. There is not a single mention of the word weight or elevation in the manual, nor is there ever a single mention of the number of time units any action requires (though they often remind you of the "NOT ENOUGH TIME UNITS" message 50 times) or effects that terrain have. In the game itself, while the items do have a weight, they are not listed anywhere in the game (unless you have that mod), nor is your soldier's carrying capacity ever expressed numerically, except to reduce his TU value if you're carrying too much gear. Since you seem to think that the way it works is a realis...excuse me, simulation, don't you think any mention of a soldier being overburdened could maybe be expressed as something as simple as "hey boss, I can't carry the rocket launcher, 5 rockets and a laser pistol...I mean, you can fit them all in my grid here but my strength is 20 and I threw out my back carting heavy explosives around."

The concepts of weight, stamina and elevation in and of themselves are certainly not obtuse, you simpering pedant, but how these concepts and numbers were expressed and implemented in the game were (whether intentionally or not) often obfuscated from the player. Seeing that you have 61 time units but not as clear an idea of how they will be spent can be...frustrating. I've lost more than a few shots walking up that incline expecting to spend 4 TU and seeing that 6 had been deducted and now I get plasma rifle mouthwash.

This means that it was hidden and/or unclear; one might even say that having things like that in a tactical game could make it obtuse. That means, in this context, that it could be intentionally difficult to understand. (Pedantry? In my vagina? It's more likely than you think.)

tl;dr I read the manual, it contained two words: Jack and Shit.

Unfortunately, the Heavy's weapon is neither particularly accurate nor powerful. It also needs to be reloaded frequently. You also lose out on Holo-targeting, arguably a better ability than Bulletswarm. You can only use it with your primary weapon. It's also restricted to one class. Of which you still only have 4-6, tops.
-While the Heavy does have the worst accuracy potential (hey, someone had be last place), their weapons deal as much damage as comparable tech levels of both the Sniper Rifle and the Shotgun. They don't have the accuracy penalties of the sniper(short range) and shotgun (long range) but they don't have the critical bonuses either and can be moved and fired in the same turn. Different strokes, sure, but more or less balanced; fair enough. And while Holo-targeting is good, you're really only getting your money's worth if you're going to take Suppression as well, and since I usually bring more than one Heavy I try to bring a suppression build and a crazy-go-nuts shoot everything build...or the Mad Bomber What Bombs at Midnight.

-Bulletswarm effectively let's you take a second action. Useful stuff, you know, like Shoot/Hunker Down, Shoot/Psychic Power, Shoot/Shoot, Shoot/Overwatch, etc., you get the picture. The heavy is a very versatile unit if you know how to play it.

-I find little use for most of the secondary items (except Alien Grenade if you take Grenadier) that aren't S.C.O.P.E. for the heavies, so that problem is a little less of one.

-You are wrong about everything, ever. You're entitled to your opinions, but those are wrong too.

Look, I love the original, I still play it, but I don't think that this game has to be the original either. In fact, I'd prefer it didn't. If I want to play the old one I still can and save myself 50 bucks. And while I certainly agree that there are some things that aren't perfectly simulated or tactical, I also appreciate the fact that these are conceits that exist largely to make the game play better at a specific design point.
 

Hargrimm

New member
Jan 1, 2010
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Salad Is Murder said:
I gather the material components to cast: WALL OF TEXT!

Hargrimm said:
How are concepts like weight, stamina and elevation obtuse? Are you even human ;)? These are things every human being has encountered in their lives. They might not know the exact numbers, but a heavier load causing fatigue is not a difficult concept to grasp at all. People having to rest and catch their breath isn't either. Strength is self explanatory in the context of items having weight.
Also, read the fucking manual.
Okay, first of all, don't be that guy. We weren't having a semantics argument before you showed up and we're certainly not going to start one now.

And let's read the manual, since it's soooo clear right? I reinstalled the Collector's Edition (I keep an ISO of my CD-ROM of it on my Ipod) and took a look at it, it's a PDF, yay!

"Strength - the soldier's Strength. This affects the distance which the
soldier can throw objects."

Yeah, that's it. There is not a single mention of the word weight or elevation in the manual, nor is there ever a single mention of the number of time units any action requires (though they often remind you of the "NOT ENOUGH TIME UNITS" message 50 times) or effects that terrain have. In the game itself, while the items do have a weight, they are not listed anywhere in the game (unless you have that mod), nor is your soldier's carrying capacity ever expressed numerically, except to reduce his TU value if you're carrying too much gear. Since you seem to think that the way it works is a realis...excuse me, simulation, don't you think any mention of a soldier being overburdened could maybe be expressed as something as simple as "hey boss, I can't carry the rocket launcher, 5 rockets and a laser pistol...I mean, you can fit them all in my grid here but my strength is 20 and I threw out my back carting heavy explosives around."

The concepts of weight, stamina and elevation in and of themselves are certainly not obtuse, you simpering pedant, but how these concepts and numbers were expressed and implemented in the game were (whether intentionally or not) often obfuscated from the player. Seeing that you have 61 time units but not as clear an idea of how they will be spent can be...frustrating. I've lost more than a few shots walking up that incline expecting to spend 4 TU and seeing that 6 had been deducted and now I get plasma rifle mouthwash.

This means that it was hidden and/or unclear; one might even say that having things like that in a tactical game could make it obtuse. That means, in this context, that it could be intentionally difficult to understand. (Pedantry? In my vagina? It's more likely than you think.)

tl;dr I read the manual, it contained two words: Jack and Shit.
So the guy carrying the huge rocket launcher with four large rockets spends all his energy just by walking five squares and has less than his max TU to boot, while the guy with just a pistol and two clips doesn't have this problem.
This is not explicitly stated to you, but it's effects are obvious to anyone paying enough attention. I fail to see the problem.

Going up slopes and through rough terrain consumes more TU than normal, how could that be? Could it be that terrain is actually taken into account?

You do know that you can reserve TU's for shots and retreating right?


In hindsight, discussing this point is pretty pointless, since how obtuse something is, is a matter of perception. I found these things very intuitive and logical while playing the game, but I recognise that might not be so for everyone.
Especially for people more used to modern games, where these things often flat out don't exist.
Salad Is Murder said:
-Bulletswarm effectively let's you take a second action. Useful stuff, you know, like Shoot/Hunker Down, Shoot/Psychic Power, Shoot/Shoot, Shoot/Overwatch, etc., you get the picture. The heavy is a very versatile unit if you know how to play it.
I know, right?
So... why is this even a special ability in the first place? If I move and then shoot, I spent one action on each, but if I shoot first, I have to spend both at once for no reason whatsoever. This is just illogical.

Salad Is Murder said:
[...]you simpering pedant[...]
Salad Is Murder said:
-You are wrong about everything, ever. You're entitled to your opinions, but those are wrong too.
Charming. This conversation is over.
 

Salad Is Murder

New member
Oct 27, 2007
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Hargrimm said:
Charming. This conversation is over.
But we were finally getting to the crux of the issue and starting to solve real...pfffft...Hee hee, nah, thanks for playing you've been a real pantload*.

It's been swell but the swelling's gone down...I'll let my idol play me out.



*You get bonus stupids for guessing the old PC game this comes from.
 

squid5580

Elite Member
Feb 20, 2008
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Paragon Fury said:
And now on to restart 16? 17 now? I've lost count.
I am about there and I haven't made it past the tutorial yet lol. The game is a cheating bastard (hush it is the only thing that lets me sleep at night)
 

godgravity

New member
Aug 20, 2012
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Paragon Fury said:
And now on to restart 16? 17 now? I've lost count.
Just out of curiousity - what build (version number) are you running on?

If you haven't fully patched, that could be the issue, as it sounds a lot like you're experiencing some of the early-reported balancing problems.

Check the Firaxis support pages - you'll see what I mean.
 

Saviordd1

Elite Member
Jan 2, 2011
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Paragon Fury said:
erttheking said:
Paragon Fury said:
erttheking said:
You know, if you aren't prepared to have the game kick your ass at one point or another, then no offense, it's not really your game.
There is "every once in a while" and then there is "Your not actually doing anything wrong, the game is just fucking you".
Yeah well, sometimes the game fucks you. Because sometimes bad things happen when commanding a squad of soldiers against an advanced alien force, even if you're doing the best that you can. Again, no offense, but if you're not ready for that, then this isn't your game.
Bad things happen.....but they shouldn't be happening so frequently that even a good strategy game player has had to restart the game 7 from scratch times with 10 hours of owning it.
If you don't like the game; don't play it.

This is the appeal of Xcom, a game that will fuck you even if you plan for the worst. If you don't like it your wasting your time and our time complaining about it.

Personally I never found the game horribly hard but maybe that's because I played the original and REALLY know what it's like to be fucked.
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
7,403
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Question:

Does the first terror mission always start mid April? Because I'm currently pretty low on funds, haven't got the officer training school built so I can increase my squad size, and I've haven't got laser weapons researched yet.

I'm asking because, I'm on my second playthrough of the game, attempting Classic, and I've just entered April. While I MIGHT pull a terror mission off with conventional weapons and default armor, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if I had at least one of the following available.

Also, damned Thin Men and their extremely lucky criticals! X(

Salad Is Murder said:
Hargrimm said:
Charming. This conversation is over.
But we were finally getting to the crux of the issue and starting to solve real...pfffft...Hee hee, nah, thanks for playing you've been a real pantload*.

It's been swell but the swelling's gone down...I'll let my idol play me out.



*You get bonus stupids for guessing the old PC game this comes from.

Is that GIF from 30 Rock? I remember watching and enjoying that show.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
5,717
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Paragon Fury said:
So I finally got X-Com: Enemy Unknown as an early birthday present (mine is on Dec. 26) and have been trying to play it for the last few days.
In future try not to create a whole new thread on a subject you've already covered in a previous still "active" thread.

Hopefully this thread doesn't get as heated though.