x86 consoles, smartphones and tablets, failing Wii U... this generation is... weird.

[Epona]

The PlayStation 4 won't stay more powerful than a PC for the same price for very long.

Pretty sure the PS4 is actually weaker than most modern top of the line PCs, I know I built mine a year ago not even using top of the line gear and it has better specs in a lot of places (though the PS4 might have a one up on my graphics card, but I haven't SLI'd it yet as I haven't hit any graphical walls).

Well, did you account for the fact that your PC has to run Windows when comparing specs. While it's hard to say exactly what any specific Windows installation needs in terms of resources we know the min specs. Windows need 1 GB of RAM to itself and a 1 Ghz CPU.

 

[Epona]

The Wii U's bad launch doesn't necessarily mean it's going to have a bad run. The PS3, DS and 3DS all had truly dreadful first years.

For comparison, the Dreamcast had one of the strongest launch lineups of all time and sold out across the globe on launch.

The Wii U hasn't even been out for a year yet. If it reaches year two and is still in the same situation, we can call it a failure and start to worry. But right now? There's still reason to hope.

Comparisons can be used to show any point. I am sure it wouldn't be too hard to find some dead console (like the CD-I or the 3DO) that had a bad launch and also failed.

It reaches year two in November, when the PS4 comes out. Do you see anything on the horizon that will turn the WiiU around? I certainly don't.

3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Wind Waker HD, Bayonetta 2, SMTxFire Emblem, X, whatever Retro is working on currently, W101, Pikmin 3.

None of those games are available on other systems. They're looking like they're going to be quality games. Those games alone will give Wii U one hell of an exclusive lineup.

How many of those are going to sell lots of WiiU's? Maybe the Mario games but certainly not the rest and not an HD remake.

If you think the WiiU is going to turn around before the PS4 hits, you are going to be disappointed.

 

[Epona]

What people keep forgetting with the Wii U is that Nintendo still hasn't shown their hand yet.

LOL, is the new way of saying "There are no games worth buying on the WiiU"?

Hey, I can do that too. "Sony just hasn't shown their hand with the Vita yet, people keep forgetting that."

When it comes to any Nintendo console, there are a stable of Nintendo games that people will always buying hardware for: 3D Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, Mario Kart. So far, we next to nothing about any of those titles for Wii U. The only Nintendo developed games for the console so far are NSMBU and Nintendoland.

Two games out of their entire stable is nothing.

And the Vita comparison is bollocks. Sony already released an Uncharted and a Resistance for the system, two of their most notable exclusive franchises, and have been teasing a Killzone. Still not done anything to boost sales. Sony showed their hand, it didn't do much. Their only hope now is that indie developers prop up the system.

What's your point? I already know that they haven't put out the Mario and Zelda U games. You may not see those till next year or beyond. All you know right now is that they will eventually arrive.

My only point with the Vita comparison is that you just found a nice way of saying "There are no games worth buying on the WiiU".

To me the only difference between the Vita and the WiiU is that the Vita has been out a little longer. So far they are both failures with no hope of recovery.

 

[Requia]

Hey, don't blame me. That's just what the news folks were reporting. The Wii U made $30 million more for Nintendo than the Wii did at launch. Majority of Wii U owners ended up buying NSMBU which no doubt helped.

You live in a strange strange world where a launch that was conducted at a loss (WiiU operations were in the red until late January) was profitable. Those game sales just edged things into the black.

 

[Requia]

Except they didn't make $30 million more at launch, they didn't make a single goddamned dime at launch, including game sales. You figure is complete and utter bullshit, because they were in the red until late January, including game sales.

And while it might be standard in the industry, its not standard for Nintendo, this is the first time they've ever sold at a loss. So how exactly losing money can make them 30 million more than making money is a hell of a mystery.

 

[Epona]

Utterly laughable.

I was talking about Nintendo developed games. Outside of that specification, there are games for the Wii U- Monster Hunter 3 U, Lego City, Zombi U, Most Wanted U and various other third-party and multiplatform games. Coming out in the near future we've got Injustice, Disney Infinity, RE: Revelations, lego Batman 2, etc. So good effort trying to twist my words there, but that's a fail.

The Wii U does have games. It simply doesn't have many Nintendo games, and those are the games that will sell the system.

Whatever, it isn't selling now and I don't think first party games will save it. Remember the N64 and Gamecube? Fantastic first party game but it just wasn't enough.

Again, laughable. The Wii U will live or die based on its first party exclusives, of which we've so far only gotten two. If, after Mario 3D, Smash Bros, Mario Kart and Zelda the system still isn't doing well, then you can be all doom and gloom. Right now, you just look ridiculous.

...and like the N64 and Gamecube, it may die even with it's first party games.

Smash Bros and Mario Kart are both huge sellers. Brawl sold over 10 million copies. Mario Kart Wii sold over 34 million copies.

How many people bought the Wii to play those games? How many of those 44 Million sales were people who already owned the dust collector known as the Wii?

Let me give you an example of what I mean. I would not buy a 3DS to play Luigi's Mansion 2 but I bought it because I needed SOMETHING to play on the 3DS that I already owned. You talk about games sales but that's moving the goal post. It's about console sales.

If you think people are going to pick up the PS4 in their droves to play more Killzone and Infamous, then you will be the one who's disappointed.

I don't, I think consoles are dying (remember?). I think the PS4 and the 720 will also sell poorly. I just think that once the PS4 is released, the WiiU will become even less attractive than it is now.

Yeah, which is how it works now in the games industry. Sell hardware at a loss, make it back from game royalties.

Pretty sure this is the first time Nintendo has sold a console at a loss and the 3DS is the first time they sold a handheld at a loss. It may be standard for Sony and Microsoft but it isn't standard for Nintendo.

 

[Requia]

Except they didn't make $30 million more at launch, they didn't make a single goddamned dime at launch, including game sales. You figure is complete and utter bullshit, because they were in the red until late January, including game sales.

This isn't my figure, so get off your high horse and stop acting as if it is. This is the figure that was widely reported in the gaming media at that time. Nintendo came out of that period with $30 million more than they did with the Wii. That's the figure everyone reported, that's the figure Nintendo had. Go take it up with the games media if you have an issue with that.

And while it might be standard in the industry, its not standard for Nintendo, this is the first time they've ever sold at a loss. So how exactly losing money can make them 30 million more than making money is a hell of a mystery.

I already explained it to you. Game sales. They made their money back off game sales.

No, they didn't, because WiiU operations were at a loss until late January according to Nintendo. They've made decent money now, because they've sold 3-4 games per console (and they only need one Nintendo published title per console to make a profit), but those game sales didn't materialize until launch was over.

 

[Maximum Bert]

*snip* for space

Ah I see it sold more via money gained from hardware not it necessarily made more money still I am very sceptical of that sounds like spin to me they can say whatever the hell they like of course and they may even be telling the truth but around here at least it definitely did not sell as good as the Wii but then again what was the Wii launch price in comparison to the WiiU I honestly cant remember what the Wii cost on launch but I know it wasnt a lot around 200 pounds or so? I am pretty sure it was less than what the WiiU is costing anyway especially if they go for the more costly package which means they would need to sell less to generate the same kind of statistics money wise even though that money wouldnt actually be profit just gross.

As for android games and such I agree they arent going anywhere soon but they will also never replace console gaming the two serve different needs.

Comparing the WiiU to the 3DS is also pointless, the 3DS picked up mainly because of its price cut but what was their competition? the PSP and Vita not going to disparage any of those because I think they are all good handhelds in their own right but really the handheld is a market Nintendo is dominant in at least as far as traditional handheld consoles go and so all eyes are on them they could afford to wait it out and try and steal their competitions thunder they already have a huge installed base so its easy to drag people attention away from the Vita which is expensive and has few titles available.

On the home consoles it is different they do not have a huge installed base and at the moment they have relatively few system selling games. A bigger problem as I have said is a lot of people have written them off in this market thanks to the Wii not suiting their needs I could be proved wrong but I think waiting is a bad idea they could unveil the greatest game in the world but if no one is listening because people are paying attention to the PS4 or Nextbox it wont help them and it will be written off. Another reason to get the games out now is because there is no current competition except the 360 and PS3 although the fact people are comparing their current product to a seven year or so piece of hardware is not good anyway they are at least the superior piece of kit now and they need people to buy back into them.

Whats the point in waiting for something that may never happen at the moment it seems people will buy into the PS4 and Nextbox more on faith because a lot of them see those companies delivering games they want further down the line while Nintendo has been sidelined for a long time now in the home console market. The last dominant console they had was the SNES after all many stuck with them through the N64 and GC but almost all the people I know who used to love Nintendo abandoned them with the Wii.

I stuck with them well actually I stuck with all the consoles because I like my games but with a few excellent exceptions I must admit the Wii has been disappointing There have been a few absolute diamonds among its games that made me glad I invested in one but for the most part its output was dross especially third party wise.

I also think people will expect a WiiU price cut when the PS4 hits which means they would have to lose more money on each sale or not cut it and possibly alienate even more people but they need to make sure it is significantly cheaper than their competitors. Personally I am waiting for a few killer games for the system just like I do with any system but its their image that is damaged at the moment.

They need to show the consumer some classic Nintendo games because their IP is way stronger than Sonys and Microsofts and their best chance of getting people to notice them is now before the hype train for the other new consoles gets into gear.

 

[Epona]

The N64 and Gamecube both had to contend with Sony consoles that came out first and took the entire world by storm. That is highly unlikely to happen this time round, considering how much of the market Sony has lost with the PS3, and how much they seem to be focusing on expensive consoles now as opposed to cheap, affordable consoles. Not only that, but the PS2 had a a huge library of hundreds of third-party exclusives, something that is now simply uneconomical in the current industry.

The N64 and Gamecube faced circumstances that are simply not likely to repeat any time soon. The PS4 is not going to have the stratospheric success of the PS2. It won't have the same library of hundreds of third-party exclusives. It won't be as cheap.

I knew you were going go with the "no it's different this time" argument. Do you honestly believe the Wii beat the PS3 because it came out first? Need I remind you that it beat the 360 too and the 360 was first to launch. Being first to launch really isn't the issue. I mean, the Dreamcast beat the PS2 and we all know how that went.

This is unquantifiable bollocks. I have you examples of exclusive games that sold phenomenally. By any definition, that is a system seller. If you're going to sit there and wax lyrical about how many people already owned a console, then I will simply ask that you provide the same disqualifier for the 360 and Halo, and the PS3 and Uncharted. That line of reasoning doesn't prove anything, it simply obstructs the argument. Halo Reach sold something like 10 million, are you going to argue that that wasn't a system seller? Gears 3 only sold something like 5 million units out of a user base of 70 million, does that stop it from being a system seller.

Hilarious. Why are you always trying to shift the topic to Sony and Microsoft, this is about Nintendo.

Ok, let me put it another way. Mario Kart on the Wii sold much better than Mario Kart on the Gamecube, why? The reason is likely that alot of people already owned the Wii and alot fewer people owned the Gamecube (you can't outsell your install base). On the Gamecube it didn't sell the console in impressive numbers and it's completely possible that it also didn't sell the Wii console in impressive numbers. Wii Sports put the Wii in homes and Mario Kart sold a lot of games, but not necessarily consoles. Unless you have some numbers?

Also, the New Super Mario Bros series is a big seller too. On the Wii it sold more than both Galaxy games combined. http://www.vgchartz.com/game/35076/new-super-mario-bros-wii/

So, why hasn't New Super Mario Bros U sold a shitload of consoles? It's because games sales and console sales are not the same thing. Selling 34 Million copies of MKWii doesn't mean that it as responsible for selling 34 Million Wii's.

It'll be cheaper, and have a larger library. How is that unattractive? The PS2 sold even more once the Xbox came out, as by then it had found its footing and started getting games out.

I guess we'll see won't we.

You're right, it's not. However, the figures speak for themselves. While the hardware was sold at a loss, the launch was profitable for Nintendo due to software sales. I doubt things have been as rosy since, but the launch was a profitable one. There's no way round that.

Another poster is arguing with you about this, not me. Take it up with him, my only point was that Nintendo doesn't usually sell consoles at a loss, until now. I don't think Nintendo is a healthy company and I don't think it has been since the SNES. You can argue about the success of the Wii but that's a one-off (ie, fucking luck and the luck has run out).

 

[sextus the crazy]

snip

not relevant to the discussion, but is your avatar a 20th century boys reference?

The Wii U appears to be doing worse than the Gamecube did. And most people in the industry do not forsee the system taking a significant pickup.

It hasn't even been a year, and they have barely released anything themselves. Its a fact of life that most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo made games. As soon as Nintendo gets 2 or 3 of their most popular franchises on the thing, people will buy it! Of course it is priced way too high in its current condition IMO.

pretty much this. It's too soon to tell. If you showed someone the first half a year of DS/ 3DS launches, you'd think those would be crappy systems, too. Just wait and the Wii U will get just as much good stuff as the previous gens.

 

[Epona]

The Wii U appears to be doing worse than the Gamecube did. And most people in the industry do not forsee the system taking a significant pickup.

It hasn't even been a year, and they have barely released anything themselves. Its a fact of life that most people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo made games. As soon as Nintendo gets 2 or 3 of their most popular franchises on the thing, people will buy it! Of course it is priced way too high in its current condition IMO.

Did people buy the Wii for Nintendo games or for the motion controls?

See all those millions of casuals who bought it because of the motion controls are gone and they aren't coming back just because Super Mario 128 or Mario Kart U comes out just like they weren't here when Mario Kart 64/Double Dash and Super Mario 64/Sunshine came out.

 

[Epona]

This is pointless jeffers. You may think that Mario Kart U will sell another 30 Million and alot of consoles and I think it will be more like the Gamecube (Double Dash sold about 7 Million). Success last gen doesn't equal success this gen. Sony knows all about that and you know what, so does Nintendo.

I don't know what else to tell you except we'll have to wait and see.

You know this topic comes up all the time and we are always told to "wait" but nothing ever changes for the WiiU.

 

[Rad Party God]

Nintendo still doesn't "get it" (nothing new), Sony are kinda/sorta making the right decision of changing to an architecture that makes sense and isn't an unnecessary puzzle to solve to even start programming for it (like the PS3 did) and if Microsoft doesn't announce something worthwile to counter the multiple rumors of always-on DRM, I hardly see them dominating the console space the next generation like they once did.

In the meantime, I'm pretty happy/excited for my new Android tablet and my good ol' PC.

 

[Epona]

Nintendo still doesn't "get it" (nothing new), Sony are kinda/sorta making the right decision of changing to an architecture that makes sense and isn't an unnecessary puzzle to solve to even start programming for it (like the PS3 did) and if Microsoft doesn't announce something worthwile to counter the multiple rumors of always-on DRM, I hardly see them dominating the console space the next generation like they once did.

In the meantime, I'm pretty happy/excited for my new Android tablet and my good ol' PC.

I don't think the WiiU has a reputation of being hard to program for. The PS2 had that reputation though and it didn't hurt it.