Xbox Creator: New Consoles Need Apple Experiences

[JEBWrench]

Part of that's because of the way the market is set up -- it's got a terrible interface. Plus, more to the point, Apple lets devs send out patches without paying a fortune. Microsoft doesn't. Besides, we're talking the main store, not the indie ghetto.

The Indie Ghetto is set up almost identically to the App Store; that's the point I'm getting at. The only major difference is that the interface is terribad, and even that I can't say for certain if it's a difference, because I don't use the App Store. I assume its interface is good, because it's a pretty big deal from what I gather.

As far as the updates go:

You can submit updates to your apps/games at no cost.

I think I agree with a point I think you're making, in that there being two different layers of the XBox Live Marketplace, the XBLIG is lost in the shuffle.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Part of that's because of the way the market is set up -- it's got a terrible interface. Plus, more to the point, Apple lets devs send out patches without paying a fortune. Microsoft doesn't. Besides, we're talking the main store, not the indie ghetto.

The Indie Ghetto is set up almost identically to the App Store; that's the point I'm getting at. The only major difference is that the interface is terribad, and even that I can't say for certain if it's a difference, because I don't use the App Store. I assume its interface is good, because it's a pretty big deal from what I gather.

As far as the updates go:

You can submit updates to your apps/games at no cost.

I think I agree with a point I think you're making, in that there being two different layers of the XBox Live Marketplace, the XBLIG is lost in the shuffle.

So then we actually agree: XBLIG should /be/ the main store, or rather, the main store should have those policies (low barrier to entry, patches and updates at no cost to the developer.) That's what the article is saying will, or at least should happen -- no indie ghetto, just a store with better, more open policies.

 

[Vhite]

Apple experience? You mean 1000$ console, 80$ games, 10$ for every patch and new console with 1 new feature every year? Count me in as long as its shiny. Also no competition since apple invented consoles so one else could use them.

Although captcha says not yet.

 

[eternal-chaplain]

Jeez another one of these 'Apple is the future' bits. Such a load of crap. Of course the creator of the Xbox says the price is too high otherwise, making a game for the XBLA is obscenely overpriced because of Microsoft. Plus, while making a game for the iOS may be cost efficient to a general extent, consider what actually becomes popular on the iOS. If the iOS is the future of gaming, it's a pretty bleak future for quality in general.

 

[Jfswift]

Ugh please no. I don't like touchscreens and I don't like apple's business structure. I really want Ouya to be independent.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I think this guys really, really loves his iPhone, like in an unhealthy way.

Not his iphone...

...That's why Fries believes that the Ouya, for which he is currently acting as an advisor...

He's heavily involved in creating a console that does exactly what he claims is holding back the current generation of consoles.

I'll wager this is more marketing's opinion than his own, after all, not only is it bringing publicity for his lesser known console, but a justification for why it does things differently than the current consoles we have, and an explanation of why this is, like, totally better than the consoles that are going to be released man!

I think it certainly has it's positives, of course it has negatives as well: I like having a physical manifestation of my product, it's why I am able to load Red Alert 2 onto this laptop and I'll be able to effortlessly load it onto my next laptop despite the dozen or so computers I've already had to load it on to play it.
But I don't think that moving exclusively to an Apple style app store would be the best thing: A huge portion of the videogame market are underage and therefore not likely to have access to personal online transactions. A lot of my teenage games were bought by myself in a store, in fact up till now I have never bought a single fully digital game.

 

[The White Hunter]

While console manufacturers have been slowly catching up with new technologies and distribution methods, Fries notes that in many ways they're still inflexible to change. That's why Fries believes that the Ouya, for which he is currently acting as an advisor, might succeed in the coming generation. Fries even suggests that an Apple console would inevitably spark another gaming revolution. "Those kinds of ideas have to go away in the next generation," he says. "They'll go away in Ouya, they'll go away if Apple brings some kind of product into this space, the console makers like Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, they have to respond to that, it's just the future."

Do I need to break out the Pippin avatar again?

Apple already released a console and it was terrible.

As for the rest of it, that's already bloody well what they're doing, and have been doing for years now. Has Mr. Fries even looked at the "treasure trove" that is XBLIG? It's like the App Store but worse.

Holy shit somebody actually ninja'd me on the Pippin! :O
You sir win the thread.

Seriously. That's it [/thread]

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Oh right. I see how that works. Microsoft is a ****, so it costs a lot of money to release a patch for a game on XBLA. But if that game was on some other system on the Xbox, Microsoft...wait, no, I must be missing something because my calculations still say Microsoft's a ****. That can't be right, can it...?

 

[Atmos Duality]

I was all ready to break out the doom and gloom, but he's actually suggesting a pretty good thing: relatively open platforms with minimal licensing fees. That's what they mean by "Apple experience." You could just as easily call it the PC experience, or the Android experience, but I guess that doesn't make for as good of a headline.

That was the issue I had with this article too; it's misleading.

For one thing: Apple is NOT "open-platform".
They have a "walled garden" environment (read: proprietary) system that isn't unlike the current PS3 and Xbox 360 licensed development environments.

-The development kit is pretty cheap, but not free. It's also a controlled program architecture, for obvious reasons, and the ONLY architecture that you can submit software as. Apple also requires registration for a license, so this is legally, the same as registering licensing with Sony or Microsoft.

-Distribution is "free" only as long as you don't charge anything for your software, otherwise it's 30% of your revenue.

-Finally, Apple still retains full authority to deny you distribution/publishing rights.
Simply put: they control the gates to the garden. It's still firmly proprietary, they just aren't being as big of dicks as Sony and Microsoft are.

Further comparing experiences, I'd say it's Apple who is copying consoles.
The main reason people use Apple is because of streamlined functionality and ease of use; especially compared to a more open "DIY" system.
Sound familiar, anyone?

The only salient point made in the article to differentiate the two models (Apple vs Console) is the fact that XBLA charges *massive* premiums for hosting new content and updates. Point to Apple.

So really, Ed Fries is just sucking Apple's cock to make his upcoming product look favorable/comparable to a currently popular brand.

 

[JEBWrench]

The XBLA Indie game membership comes also with a lot of restrictions. And those restrictions let indie devs choose the other way - the way where they have to pay 40k$ to patch their games.
And those restrictions are rather harsh - most of the indie games on Steam could not qualify through those - "Games must be less than 500 MB." is just one example that makes me cringe.

Fair enough. I just think that Microsoft is already in the process of doing what Mr. Fries thinks they should do. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Microsoft App Hub restrictions change even more towards what Apple's App Store is like, as they seem to be focusing pretty hard on trying to get a bite out of that.

Holy shit somebody actually ninja'd me on the Pippin! :O
You sir win the thread.

Seriously. That's it [/thread]

Aw, shucks. I just remember all the "Apple should try making a console!" rhetoric from right around when I first got here. Until the tragic death of Lance; I had a Pippin as my avatar.

 

[Joccaren]

I personally think the gaming market could certainly learn a lot from Apple; having a platform which is easy for content creators to make things on is never a bad thing. Look at how many iOS games there are compared to XBLA/PSN; its no competition in terms of sheer numbers. Sure, a lot of those games may be crap to people like us, but Apple has a MUCH broader market because of that, and for people like us there are also 'hardcore' gems like Infinity Blade. Not to mention the prices, even for DLC titles, are significantly cheaper on the Apple system.

As was said earlier in the thread, you could just as easily call that the PC or Android experience, Apple just makes a better headline.

Honestly, if this is all they want to copy off Apple, and they took this long to realise something that the PC has been doing since its inception - yeah.
The main thing they should be focusing on from the "Apple Experience" is the speed and usability side of things, and the simplicity. Those were the strengths of consoles that have become diluted over time. Making consoles load quickly, with no crashing or FPS problems, short loading times and a simple and very usable interface that your grandma could understand on booting it up is what consoles need to head towards - they're strengths as a platform. In doing this prices of consoles would probably also drop, playing to another of their strengths.
It is, to be honest, something I liked about the Wii. Going over to a friends house and using their Xbox/Playstation I had little idea what was going on on the main menu, or if it just booted straight to the game how to access the main menu. I just had to trust them to get things done, or take a guess at what things did and learn. With the Wii, there were big, labelled icons for everything, and the background was simple and white so as not to distract from the icons. There was no way you could go wrong in doing what you wanted to. That, IMO, is the core of what should be copied from the "Apple Experience" - simplicity and ease of use. Making a big deal out of a market with 'No restrictions' that is still far more restricted than the PC market is... eh. You should be focusing on something else.

 

[Beautiful End]

Ugh! Am I the only one who misses the good ol' days when a console was just a console and not a PC/Mac/random Apple product hybrid? No updates or any of that? Yeah, online gaming was a great addition and it was bound to happen but aside from that, I just miss turning on my console, popping in the disc and find myself playing a game less than 5 seconds later.

But that aside, I admit I don't think I quite got the grasp of the article. I might be misunderstanding something; I have to go back and check. At any rate, I would hate for them to release a new console every couple of months. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would lose interest.

 

[mitchell271]

"Anybody can develop for the platform, certification is a relatively cheap and painless thing, and in the old days of consoles there are all sorts of myths and legends that say that's a bad thing to do. That's why the game business melted down in '84, there was too much junk on the market, but now you've got guys who make games like Fez who can't do an update to their game because it costs too much, if that game was <color=red>on iOS that wouldn't be a problem, but because it's on XBLA it's a problem."

[/quote]

First problem: it was the Gaming Crash of '83, not '84. Either it was a slip of the tongue or he needs to brush up on the history of the business he's in.
Second problem: it's harder than you think to get stuff approved by Apple.
Third problem: there's just as much crap on the market now except that it's all digital and people usually don't have to wade through it to get to the good stuff.

 

[Zeldias]

Well, as expected Apple haters are out in force?

Look, the 'Apple experience' isn't about suing other companies (which every company does these days, by the way), re-releasing new products every year (again, every company does that), etc etc; thats what the Apple corporation side of things. By 'Apple experience' it means user experience: the ridiculously easy-to-use style where even your grandmother can use it with very little learning.

I personally think the gaming market could certainly learn a lot from Apple; having a platform which is easy for content creators to make things on is never a bad thing. Look at how many iOS games there are compared to XBLA/PSN; its no competition in terms of sheer numbers. Sure, a lot of those games may be crap to people like us, but Apple has a MUCH broader market because of that, and for people like us there are also 'hardcore' gems like Infinity Blade. Not to mention the prices, even for DLC titles, are significantly cheaper on the Apple system.

Apple recently sued to get a patent on rectangles with rounded corners. I haven't heard of Samsung or Motorola pulling shit like that. Also, I don't find Apple easy to use at all. The only people I know who feel this way are people who started with Apple computer and rarely, if ever, used another OS or folks justifying the initial purchase. The only thing I'm happy with from Apple is the iPod, and even then that gets hurt by having to use iTunes. I will say that setting up an Apple desktop is a pleasant experience, though.

Anyways, I don't want to have all my products be outrageously overpriced because the competitors are actually making the components to put the thing together and still have a machine that's not nearly as good as the price would make one think. I'm also not a fan of funneling every single thing through something shitty and bloated like iTunes.

I'm not saying that the UIs that the consoles have now is good (the current PSN makes me want to pluck my eyes from my skull), but what he's really saying is the Big Three have some shitty digital publishing practices and it needs to be fixed (not that Apple is great with their apps, IMO (especially compared to Android)). Unless he's thinking that M$ can start charging $1600 for an Xbox because it fits inside something slim.

 

[Waaghpowa]

I don't get how people think anything Apple is easy to use. What one finds easier to use is entirely subjective. I personally think Linux command line is easy to use.

I also find it funny that he brings up the high costs of keeping a game on XBLA as a reason for wanting to do the "Apple experience". Why not just reduce the damn costs? Granted, this may open up to a lot of crap flooding in, though it can't be as bad as some of the stuff they already let onto the XBLA right?

 

[Waaghpowa]

I'm not saying that the UIs that the consoles have now is good (the current PSN makes me want to pluck my eyes from my skull), but what he's really saying is the Big Three have some shitty digital publishing practices and it needs to be fixed (not that Apple is great with their apps, IMO (especially compared to Android)).

This is exactly what I was thinking, they need to fix their online publishing. You always hear stories about XBLA nightmares, but I don't know much of how Sony does their publishing aside from over charging for full digital games and offering little to no competitive pricing.

You also hear a lot of crap about Apples app store, like allowing the publishing of blatant copyright infringement games and that whole thing with Pokemon Yellow. How is Android though? I have an Android phone and I don't usually care much for the whole "app" thing, so it's something I don't pay much attention too.

Related thought, why the hell do people make such a big deal over "apps" anyway? Aside from the asinine "easier to use" argument, a whole butt load of apps is pretty much the only argument I ever hear in Apples favour. What percentage of those apps are even good, you can gloat all you want about having a million apps on your store, but if they're all shit, who cares?

 

[Something Amyss]

The article linked within this article to talk about how the Xbox isn't doing as hot as it once was, blames sagging console sales.
The thing is, once everyone owns the console, they have no reason to buy another. It's just peak market saturation.

Indeed, at this point in the generation you expect to see sales are not as good as what they once were. And we are. In all three consoles. It's more remarkable when this doesn't happen.