Xbox One Brings Microsoft Entertainment Biz Into Question

[Thanatos5150]

So Microsoft wants to move people forward... and the PC Gaming Master Race are complaining? Since when did the PCGMR become Luddites?

Does everybody forget that PC Gaming Master Race was used as an insult in its first invocation?

Having your own personal "Jarvis" should be a cool idea. Yet the PCGMR hates it.

Nitpick: *JARVIS (It stands for "Just A Rather Very Intelligent System") (Technically, there are supposed to be peroids between each letter, but people let that slide with acronyms all the time)
A personal pseudo-AI integrated to all of your electronic kit at all times? That does sound cool! It really does.
Where, anywhere in the Xbox One is this being offered? It has... a microphone which I can use voice commands with (Do people actually seriously use voice commands?), and a camera which is apparently able to monitor my heartbeat for some reason? Oh, and it's not a personal butler, it's proprietary of somebody else and is simply on contract to me. This is far from ideal.

The Kinect can spy on you in your own home! You mean like your cell phone and webcam? Apparently that third thing in your home that can be used to spy on you is the straw that breaks the camels back.

I don't actually *have* a webcam, but if I did, unless it was integrated into my PC's Monitor, I'd have the option to turn it off, unplug it, or remove it. I'd have the option to uninstall the drivers, and my PC would continue to work just fine. I'd have the option to cover the camera with a piece of electrical tape if I really didn't trust it. It wouldn't be able to run independantly of my system's power state, like the Kinect can.

Microsoft has DRM! Like Steam, Origin, and PS4? How dare they!

Nobody minds unobtrusive DRM, like Steam (Plus, y'know, SALES!). I haven't researched into the PS4's DRM, so I can offer no intelligent comments on this part. Also: do people actually use Origin?

Microsoft may get cause Gamestop to go under! Like Blockbuster? (And, correct me if i'm wrong, isn't Gamestop the company that people hate because they only get $5 for a trading in a new game and Gamestop sells it for $5 off? Just saying, their days should be numbered. They deserve it).

I miss Blockbuster.

You have to be connected to the interenet once every 24 hours! If you can post on an internet forum, that isn't a problem where you live.

Have you ever been in a blizzard? The Heat comes on, then the electricity, and then the internet, lagging far far behind. Sometimes, the heat doesn't come back for days

Seriously, when did the PCGMR become the cranky old people shaking their fists at progress? Next thing we know the PCGMR will be flinging wooden shoes at Microsofts servers...

I've only noticed PC Gamers embracing progress. PCs are still leagues ahead of consoles, after all!
I'd also like to note that, if you're meaning to bring this all around back to "Luddites", that the Luddites were arsonists, and they targeted textile factories. I guess the modern equivalent would be bombing the server farms.
It'd be far more effective, at any rate.

 

[MorphingDragon]

>.>

Though I dislike those people that go PC IZ TEH GREETEST UND CONSUL EEZ FR MORONZ, this time they do have a point. The Xbone doesn't have any advantages over a gaming PC.

It's about $1,000 to $3,000 dollars cheaper for one.

In NZD maybe.

In fact I can spec a computer in here in NZ for just shy of a grand and still be better than the Xbone or PS4. Even better still as I don't bother going after generic parts, just name brand shit.

It's pointless to argue in dollars and specs. The biggest strength of a console is to facilitate games and even then, the PS4 is diminishing compared to the PC. Ever since I got rid of my PS3 a couple years back there's only been a literal handful of games I want to play. The Last of Us, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Sly 4, Journey, Resistance 3...

 

[Vylox]

y check-in.

So Microsoft wants to move people forward... and the PC Gaming Master Race are complaining? Since when did the PCGMR become Luddites?

Having your own personal "Jarvis" should be a cool idea. Yet the PCGMR hates it.
The Kinect can spy on you in your own home! You mean like your cell phone and webcam? Apparently that third thing in your home that can be used to spy on you is the straw that breaks the camels back.
Microsoft has DRM! Like Steam, Origin, and PS4? How dare they!
Microsoft may get cause Gamestop to go under! Like Blockbuster? (And, correct me if i'm wrong, isn't Gamestop the company that people hate because they only get $5 for a trading in a new game and Gamestop sells it for $5 off? Just saying, their days should be numbered. They deserve it).
You have to be connected to the interenet once every 24 hours! If you can post on an internet forum, that isn't a problem where you live.

Seriously, when did the PCGMR become the cranky old people shaking their fists at progress? Next thing we know the PCGMR will be flinging wooden shoes at Microsofts servers...

1) because Jarvis is a fully interactive artificial intelligence, not just a voice recording camera that has limited motion sensing capabilities.
2) because it requires it. Your phone does not, your PC does not. The kinect2 is a require,went for the system to function, also when was the last time you heard about someone spying through your phone or PC or tablet camera¿ yes it can happen, but generally doesn't.
3) MS also has been saying that cloud gaming is the future, and saying a lot of stuff about cloud processing and cloud storage. Do you understand what that means ¿ do you really Origin understand what it means when a game console requires a static 1.5Mbs internet connection ? The PS4 doesn't have DRM as mandatory, Steam has limited DRM, and Origin is practically a failed and sinking ship.
4) it is highly unlikely that this is the case, as the US's largest used game retailer and largest game retailer anyhow, it is not likely that a company that's been supported and helped along is going to fail b/c of them being a supported used game retailer.
5) not so, there are places within those 21 countries where people use their phone or school or internet hosting coffee shops to post online, even in the US, and if you happen to have Verizon fios, or a non-business class internet provider service, your not likely to meed the 1.5mbs requirements, and could find it difficult to keep the daily check-in.

Progress is fine, if its actually progress. This isn't progress its a bald attempt at control and stepping on people's rights and shoving too many things into a package than should be there... not to mention not listening to the consumer. The consumer wants a game console, not a sometimes console that has requirements and restrictions, let alone less power and functionality than a tablet (which I might add is required for some features).

 

[Something Amyss]

*a lone voice from the back of the theater* Drop the DRM!!!

Were you saying "drop the DRM" or "Booourns?"

 

[Something Amyss]

Meh, Microsoft won't go consumer friendly. Much like our friends at EA and other gaming companies, they believe they are right. So, they will continue to piss on our leg and tell us it is raining until we agree.

The thing is, they will change if there's financial incentive. This is why EA's dropping online passes: they're costing more money than they make.

Believe it or not, corporations aren't Captain Planet villains set to take the world out even if it costs them their own profit margins. Microsoft weathers bad deals with its OS because it's the only game in town for most people, but they revise their other products frequently.

They gambled on a lock. They lost. But they only truly lose if they end up being incorrect that we'll buy anyway. I wouldn't expect change yet, but change will come if gamers have any integrity at all, because Microsoft won't blow a hole in their own hull.

Sep 12, 2003. It was called Steam. Please tell me you didn't install it

You ARE aware that Steam was NOt treated as progress, right? It was met with complaints and criticism and only really tolerated at all in its early stages because it was necessary for spoiled gamers to play bland shooters featuring silent protagonists who are somehow considered to have great "personality." It was further considered buggy and a RAM hog and people despised it. The only "progress" there is that it eventually gained acceptance because people couldn't go without their pweshush games.

The only way this becomes progress is is gamers are complacent.

Incidently, how does not being able to steal something infringe upon your rights? You've never had the "right" to steal something that wasn't yours.

Is playing your games offline stealing? Is the ability to trade games stealing? Is fair use stealing?

Like it or not, there are rights being infringed upon and the people who take issue aren't just dirty thieves who want to be able to pirate games. Those guys are probably just laughing anyway, as they'll have a day 1 crack while the legit users are punished.

.

PS: You know if Apple came out with something similar, say requiring finger print scans and DNA samples to turn it on, having to subscribe to play your games and it sells for only $2,000... everybody would be going on about how great it is right?

Apple fans are far from everybody. If the market was really that rife with people who would overpay that much for inferior crap with heavy restrictions, iOS would be so dominant Microsoft would have closed shop years ago.

Yes, iPods prey on people with more money than sense, but evidently not THAT much more as the PC market is still fairly robust and Apple's slice of the pie is not so much.

Honestly, "people would be okay with it if someone else did it" is a spourious claim best left for jokes rather than actual points. It's funny that Steam or Apple get a wider berth, but it doesn't mean they get a free pass or there's an inherent equivalence.

 

[Vylox]

It is sad that people are used to everything about them being online somewhere, but webcams and mobiles can be turned off.

A half decent hacker/NSA agent can turn those on without you knowing about it. If someone wants to spy on you, they can.

This part is bugging me so I'm going to puck on it specifically.

The Kinect is an integral part of the XBox One, as in it must be turned on in order for the system itself to be on. Couple this with a required 1.5Mbs internet connection.

Now, let's look at the webcam scenario. 1) the web can must be connected to a computer, 2) said computer must be connected to the internet, 3) said hacker must have root/admin access to that computer, 4) said hacker must be able to bypass your ISP's security protocols, 5) they must also be able to bypass your router's security, 6) they must also know exactly what brand and model webcam in order to bypass the integral security of that webcam, 7) they must also have the desire or need to look at your face/room. That is entirely possible but not particularly plausible.

Now let's examine the camera on your phone. 1) knowledge of your phone brand, 2) your phone number, 3) your SIM card's serial number, 3) ability to bypass your service carrier's security protocols in order to change the throttle and data limits, 4) the desire to look at your ear or pocket lint.
Again, possible, but not plausible.

There is a huge difference between something that is possible, but not particularly plausible when compared to something that is mandatory for use. The camera on your phone, along with voice recording is not mandatory for your phone to be turned on, they aren't mandatory for your computer to be turned on. They are mandatory for your XBox One to be turned on.

If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.

 

[Nimzabaat]

they must also have the desire or need to look at your face/room.

the desire to look at your ear or pocket lint.

If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.

Thank you very much. You have echoed my point nicely. Anyone CAN spy on you if they think you're up to something. The best defence is not to be up to anything. I'm pretty sure your NSA won't find your family or friends hanging out on a couch any more interesting than your "selfies". So if you'd prefer to worry about the people who want to keep you from harm as opposed to the people who wish you harm, that's your choice to make.

PS: For 500 bucks you can't expect much, but it brings the modern family closer to the technology seen in sci-fi movies. I was pointing out that you can probably name your xbox whatever (Jarvis was only an example. And Jarvis was a person in the Iron Man comics and became an AI only in the movies sheesh) and tell it to turn on, hook it up to your lights, coffee maker whatever and get to "feel" like Iron Man on a budget. There may be custom voice packs etc. I wasn't suggesting that it's going to be a fully functional AI capable of enhancing every aspect of your daily life, doing taxes, walking your dog, distracting your wife while you're with your mistress etc.

 

[Nimzabaat]

they must also have the desire or need to look at your face/room.

the desire to look at your ear or pocket lint.

If you can't see the difference, then there is no hope for you.

Thank you very much. You have echoed my point nicely. Anyone CAN spy on you if they think you're up to something. The best defence is not to be up to anything. I'm pretty sure your NSA won't find your family or friends hanging out on a couch any more interesting than your "selfies". So if you'd prefer to worry about the people who want to keep you from harm as opposed to the people who wish you harm, that's your choice to make.

PS: For 500 bucks you can't expect much, but it brings the modern family closer to the technology seen in sci-fi movies. I was pointing out that you can probably name your xbox whatever (Jarvis was only an example. And Jarvis was a person in the Iron Man comics and became an AI only in the movies sheesh) and tell it to turn on, hook it up to your lights, coffee maker whatever and get to "feel" like Iron Man on a budget. There may be custom voice packs etc. I wasn't suggesting that it's going to be a fully functional AI capable of enhancing every aspect of your daily life, doing taxes, walking your dog, distracting your wife while you're with your mistress etc.

There's no hope for you, as you entirely missed the point and took only small snippets basically out of context.
Firstly by missing the fact that thee are requirements to turning on those cameras, and second by the fact that they aren't required for the damn devices to be on.

The fact remains, that in order for the XBox One to be in the state of power on, the kinect video and voice recorder must also be on. This is not the case with other devices. Your cell phone does not require the camera to be on and recording in conjunction with a required internet connection just to have the status of being turned on, nor does any computer with a webcam.

That is the point. And quite frankly if you can't see that, you are an idiot. There is a reason that business have posted signs about video surveillance, there is a reason that your city or state government must keep posted on their website about cameras on street lamps and traffic lights along with making them plainly visible to the public. There is a reason that photographic evidence in not admissible in court unless there is a warrant which pre-dates those submitted images. There is a reason that most telephone tapping is considered illegal, unless there is also a warrant that pre-dates such taping.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/how-hackers-can-switch-on-your-webcam-and-control-your-computer-20130328-2gvwv.html

TLDR: Hackers can access anything that is connected wirelessly or wired. Basically as you said, if someone wants to go through a LOT of effort they can spy on you. As I said, you (not you personally, but everybody) are probably not interesting enough for anyone to do that so don't worry about it. I seriously doubt that anyone wants to watch you flailing away in front of your webcam/Kinect (in the case above the hacker was watching someone pick their nose), so it's not as big a deal as people think it is.

We live under the illusion or safety and the illusion of privacy. To some people those illusions are important, but that's because they choose to fear the wrong things. Yes the government may have spied on you at one point, no they don't need a warrant unless they want to charge you with something and use the information in that way. Yes it's because they're trying to keep people from getting hurt.

I've mentioned this in another thread but there was a small scandal in Canada about a decade ago when there was a drug problem on a military base. The military base was (and probably still is) monitoring all cell phone communication in North America. Apparently the average persons life is so boring that the people responsible for this monitoring developed drug habits. The story got down-played which was interesting in itself, but there you have it. Until the bad guys want to identify themselves the good guys will have to look for them.

 

[Vylox]

TLDR: Hackers can access anything that is connected wirelessly or wired. Basically as you said, if someone wants to go through a LOT of effort they can spy on you. As I said, you (not you personally, but everybody) are probably not interesting enough for anyone to do that so don't worry about it. I seriously doubt that anyone wants to watch you flailing away in front of your webcam/Kinect (in the case above the hacker was watching someone pick their nose), so it's not as big a deal as people think it is.

We live under the illusion or safety and the illusion of privacy. To some people those illusions are important, but that's because they choose to fear the wrong things. Yes the government may have spied on you at one point, no they don't need a warrant unless they want to charge you with something and use the information in that way. Yes it's because they're trying to keep people from getting hurt.

I've mentioned this in another thread but there was a small scandal in Canada about a decade ago when there was a drug problem on a military base. The military base was (and probably still is) monitoring all cell phone communication in North America. Apparently the average persons life is so boring that the people responsible for this monitoring developed drug habits. The story got down-played which was interesting in itself, but there you have it. Until the bad guys want to identify themselves the good guys will have to look for them.

Firstly, are you claiming that Microsoft (a corporation) is the good guys ¿
Secondly, you are comparing a business to a government.
Thirdly, there is a little thing called, The Electronic Privacy Protecting Act (1986) which prohibits most electronic surveillance within the homes of people.
Finally, you still miss the damn point.
Most cameras in devices are not required to be n for said device to be on and function. Whereas the XBox One requires both the video and voice recording devices to be on for the system to function. And according to the Electronic Privacy Protection Act, video and voice recording can not actually be done in regards to a person's phone calls or within their homes. It also states that video surveillance in public places must be done on closed circuit systems, and not transmitted elsewhere without express written consent of the parties involved.

Since I have not seen a legal document from Microsoft (and I have seen what is available of that EULA) regarding the camera and voice recording microphone of the XBox One, they are invading privacy. Now you might not like your personal privacy within your own home, but I'm fairly sure that the majority of people in the US and Europe along with many other countries, that privacy is valued.
It is entirely the fact that Microsoft is NOT a government entity that causes this to become an issue. If the system was sold be the government, it would likely not be such a volatile point to people, however it is a business, and most business have a habit of doing whatever they can to increase profit, including disregarding a person's freedoms and privacy unless they explicitly state that they won't sell or share your personal information. And the EULA for XBLA only states that they won't share you banking or credit card information, however they have the right (by your agreement) to share your E-mail and other information however they choose.

The difference between being a corporate entity and business compared to being a governmental entity makes a difference.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Finally, you still miss the damn point.

The point is that you are choosing to be afraid of one camera that is always and not being afraid of another. I don't know anyone who turns their cell phone off. I do know that the basic computer security course involves hacking each others smart phones as a class excercise.

Incidently, you CAN turn the Kinect off with a hardware switch if you choose to, just like anything else. You have to turn it on to be able to voice activate it, but the "off" function is there.

Since Microsoft is a business and is aware of the laws regarding privacy they will not be recording you with the Kinect (they have said that officially). You can chose to disbelieve that if you wish, but that's your paranoia and there is absolutely nothing to justify it in the real world.

Once again, if you want to be a tinfoil hat type and believe that people find you irresitable to watch, that's your choice. Just remember, that's a fantasy that others don't have to live in. I sure don't.

EDIT: Hang on... you're right. I did miss your point.

I thought you were complaining because you were afraid that the NSA or malicious hackers could watch you through the Kinect. That's a little paranoid but a semi-valid criticism that can be shot down by pointing out other ways they can spy on you. (which was what I was doing)

But you're actually afraid that Microsoft will spy on you with the Kinect. You actually think that one of the richest companies in the world WANTS to see poor people. That's so much more delusional. I mean wow. Just... wow. You sir, deserve one of these.

I have to thank you for this though. I've seen people with big egoes and i've seen paranoid delusions. I hadn't seen someone combine the two and crank that shit to 11 though. Just thinking about that has kept me smiling all day. Thanks again!