Xbox One to Get Kinect-Free Version for $399 in June

[Strazdas]

Oh good, that clears that up. Thanks

I read through a couple of articles about the removal of the hard drive and how it would void the warranty, and at some point Microsoft would eventually update the box so you could remove the hard drive like the PS4. Though they haven't brought it up for months.

I also found a small list that showed most games were around 10 to 15Gb, some going up to 30Gb, and it also said some of them had big updates which made a difference.

They really screwed up. How much did it cost Microsoft making all these changes? Revising all the practices? I wonder

Its microsoft, so i doubt they are going to allwo you to modify your own hardware because god forbid you know what you bought. altrough voiding warranty is pretty standard for modifying hardware, nothing new here.

they did screw up, and they think it cost them less than trying to push these tactics forward, otherwise they wouldnt do it (because they arenty doing it because their nice, they are doing it because its hurting their bottom line otherwise).

Praise? No, I never mentioned praise at all only that they deserve some level of positive recognition for addressing the complaints of potential customers. Listening to customers is a good thing, that is just to much for the people that want to mindlessly hate though isn't it? They also dropped the price of the console in some countries with the launch of Titanfall, not just the Kinect free price drop in the future.

As for hardware "magically becoming more powerful" I guess you don't understand computers if you think APIs and drivers cannot have a startling effect on the performance of hardware, obviously as DX12 isn't out yet we cannot see how much of a difference it will make but I will leave you this [http://www.anandtech.com/show/7926/nvidia-releases-33750-beta-driver-offers-significant-performance-improvements] as proof of how much difference they can make. A simple driver update with a more optimised version and it increases performance in games by between twenty and fifty percent, that is just a driver not a reworked API.

but they are not doing it in this case now are they. no, they are touting that they came jup with the idea of kinectless box completely ignoring/preteinding costumer complaints. they dont even have the integrity to admit they are fixing a mistake here. when that, as i pointed out with price they may be getting money out of this deal all along.
as far as launch of titan fall price drops - i didnt knew about that. in this case - good for them. that is a positive thing.

i know computers well enough to know that hardware does not become faster. like i said, getting rid of layers was something thats popular lately (like the directx12 thing) but there was more push for it on PC front than consoles and consoles are getting the benefit solely by using identical infrastructure. and due to x86 infrastructure any benefit in consoles will transfer to PCs as well, so no, they will not get "optimized" or "magically better".
as a Nvidia user im well aware of their great driver support. its not really so much a performance improvement though. merely updating the driver to proplerly use whats coded in the game, as in, your "optimizing". your GPU isnt going to run 20% faster, its just that this game stops being run 20% slower due to driver issues.
as far as your link, well, thats the Nvidias answer to Mantle. they said they dont need a new API to beat them in power and i guess they are showing why. also the article points out that actual improvements are mostly game specific and overall are 12% instead.

 

[xxcokexd]

despite Microsofts true intentions, it still is good that they have decided to lower the price ( I clap for for you Microsoft ). But then again, can one really praise a child who has fallen down for simply getting back up. I honestly can't see how any company messes up so bad in the beggining. It is just embarrassing

 

[J Tyran]

Praise? No, I never mentioned praise at all only that they deserve some level of positive recognition for addressing the complaints of potential customers. Listening to customers is a good thing, that is just to much for the people that want to mindlessly hate though isn't it? They also dropped the price of the console in some countries with the launch of Titanfall, not just the Kinect free price drop in the future.

As for hardware "magically becoming more powerful" I guess you don't understand computers if you think APIs and drivers cannot have a startling effect on the performance of hardware, obviously as DX12 isn't out yet we cannot see how much of a difference it will make but I will leave you this [http://www.anandtech.com/show/7926/nvidia-releases-33750-beta-driver-offers-significant-performance-improvements] as proof of how much difference they can make. A simple driver update with a more optimised version and it increases performance in games by between twenty and fifty percent, that is just a driver not a reworked API.

but they are not doing it in this case now are they. no, they are touting that they came jup with the idea of kinectless box completely ignoring/preteinding costumer complaints. they dont even have the integrity to admit they are fixing a mistake here. when that, as i pointed out with price they may be getting money out of this deal all along.
as far as launch of titan fall price drops - i didnt knew about that. in this case - good for them. that is a positive thing.

i know computers well enough to know that hardware does not become faster. like i said, getting rid of layers was something thats popular lately (like the directx12 thing) but there was more push for it on PC front than consoles and consoles are getting the benefit solely by using identical infrastructure. and due to x86 infrastructure any benefit in consoles will transfer to PCs as well, so no, they will not get "optimized" or "magically better".
as a Nvidia user im well aware of their great driver support. its not really so much a performance improvement though. merely updating the driver to proplerly use whats coded in the game, as in, your "optimizing". your GPU isnt going to run 20% faster, its just that this game stops being run 20% slower due to driver issues.
as far as your link, well, thats the Nvidias answer to Mantle. they said they dont need a new API to beat them in power and i guess they are showing why. also the article points out that actual improvements are mostly game specific and overall are 12% instead.

The thing is I never claimed that the hardware in the Xone will "magically improve", all I said was Microsoft are working on the Xbones performance issues. PCs will benefit from DX12 thats true, I cannot wait and I just have the vain hope Microsoft won't release it only on Windows 8. Going by past history though it really is a vain hope. The improvements in that link are game specific but as you are an Nvidia user you will know they work hard on the optimisation of individual games all the time, there are always frequent updates to improve games both for single GPU and SLI profiles.

However PCs are not really relevant to the point I was making, we all know PCs are superior but the topic was the Xbone so there is no need to inject a discussion about another platform in an attempt to dismiss the point I made about the XBone by saying "but, but this is better. XBone sucks". Yes I know PCs are better, I have my own [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.409130-Your-PC-Specs#17109260] gaming machine that I always choose to play multiplatform games on rather than a console but the topic was the XBone not PCs.

The Xbox division are also working on DX12, they are also including developers in the development of the new API. There have been articles [http://www.neowin.net/news/directx-12-a-game-changer-for-xbox-one] making some rather substantial claims about the added performance, personally I will take them with a pinch of salt until we actually get to see it in the wild. Considering the performance issues the Xbone is suffering seem to be software issues related to leveraging the Xbones complicated APU [http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/171735-xbox-one-apu-reverse-engineered-reveals-sram-as-the-reason-for-small-gpu] there will certainly be some level of a performance increase, the actual hardware in the XBone should be capable of running games at a higher resolution and frame rate than we are seeing at the moment.

Better software and hardware access will allow developers to get the most out of whats already there, so please stop insisting that I am saying Microsoft will sprinkle fairy dust on it and make the hardware more powerful.

 

[Strazdas]

The thing is I never claimed that the hardware in the Xone will "magically improve", all I said was Microsoft are working on the Xbones performance issues. PCs will benefit from DX12 thats true, I cannot wait and I just have the vain hope Microsoft won't release it only on Windows 8. Going by past history though it really is a vain hope. The improvements in that link are game specific but as you are an Nvidia user you will know they work hard on the optimisation of individual games all the time, there are always frequent updates to improve games both for single GPU and SLI profiles.

However PCs are not really relevant to the point I was making, we all know PCs are superior but the topic was the Xbone so there is no need to inject a discussion about another platform in an attempt to dismiss the point I made about the XBone by saying "but, but this is better. XBone sucks". Yes I know PCs are better, I have my own [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.409130-Your-PC-Specs#17109260] gaming machine that I always choose to play multiplatform games on rather than a console but the topic was the XBone not PCs.

The Xbox division are also working on DX12, they are also including developers in the development of the new API. There have been articles [http://www.neowin.net/news/directx-12-a-game-changer-for-xbox-one] making some rather substantial claims about the added performance, personally I will take them with a pinch of salt until we actually get to see it in the wild. Considering the performance issues the Xbone is suffering seem to be software issues related to leveraging the Xbones complicated APU [http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/171735-xbox-one-apu-reverse-engineered-reveals-sram-as-the-reason-for-small-gpu] there will certainly be some level of a performance increase, the actual hardware in the XBone should be capable of running games at a higher resolution and frame rate than we are seeing at the moment.

Better software and hardware access will allow developers to get the most out of whats already there, so please stop insisting that I am saying Microsoft will sprinkle fairy dust on it and make the hardware more powerful.

fair enough, peroformance issues have to be dealth with. Its not something worth praising either thought, just bugfixing. DirectX wont come to 7. Its being built to work with new kernel from 8 and would simply not work. just like 10+ didnt work on XP. It may actually be the thing that makes me upgrade to 8 eventually. (or 9 perhaps depending on how that turns out).

Yes, Nvidia works hard on optimization from a driver perspective, altrough lately most of it was for SLI performance, which is entirely different beast and is unrelated to console comparisons. However like i said it does not so much improve hardware performance overall as it makes drivers support the game code better. and thats really software optimization, something a developer does for consoles themselves since MS surely aint going to bother.

the PC injection was made because of the often used false pretence that consoles somehow magically optimize themselves and run better on weaker hardware. i merely pointed out that thats not going to be the case, removing the argument of consoles doing anything special here.

Yeah, the people working on 12 is likely cooperating with a lot of other people. They certainly should if they want to make API suitable for good developement. I guess that confirms that Xbox Done will support 12 fully though.
Yeah, the complicated APU thing is really going to hurt them, just like it hurt PS3. thing is, its not actually faster, unlike the PS3 processor was, so even studios that bother untangling that web (and most wont, because why would they) wont really see as much improvement as PS3 had. PS3 processor was fastest in the world until i7 launched, didnt help it much in making games run better though.

fair enough, you seem to be one of the very few that actually are saying more than fairy dust.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Users who purchase the Xbox One sans Kinect will be able to change their mind and add a standalone sensor, but not until, Microsoft makes it available sometime in the fall.

This makes me think they are making a different custom connection for the separate kinect. The used kinect market is going to be flooded with people getting rid of theirs cheap as a result of this decision to sell them separately.

Expect 6 month old used kinects for $20.

 

[J Tyran]

The thing is I never claimed that the hardware in the Xone will "magically improve", all I said was Microsoft are working on the Xbones performance issues. PCs will benefit from DX12 thats true, I cannot wait and I just have the vain hope Microsoft won't release it only on Windows 8. Going by past history though it really is a vain hope. The improvements in that link are game specific but as you are an Nvidia user you will know they work hard on the optimisation of individual games all the time, there are always frequent updates to improve games both for single GPU and SLI profiles.

However PCs are not really relevant to the point I was making, we all know PCs are superior but the topic was the Xbone so there is no need to inject a discussion about another platform in an attempt to dismiss the point I made about the XBone by saying "but, but this is better. XBone sucks". Yes I know PCs are better, I have my own [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.409130-Your-PC-Specs#17109260] gaming machine that I always choose to play multiplatform games on rather than a console but the topic was the XBone not PCs.

The Xbox division are also working on DX12, they are also including developers in the development of the new API. There have been articles [http://www.neowin.net/news/directx-12-a-game-changer-for-xbox-one] making some rather substantial claims about the added performance, personally I will take them with a pinch of salt until we actually get to see it in the wild. Considering the performance issues the Xbone is suffering seem to be software issues related to leveraging the Xbones complicated APU [http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/171735-xbox-one-apu-reverse-engineered-reveals-sram-as-the-reason-for-small-gpu] there will certainly be some level of a performance increase, the actual hardware in the XBone should be capable of running games at a higher resolution and frame rate than we are seeing at the moment.

Better software and hardware access will allow developers to get the most out of whats already there, so please stop insisting that I am saying Microsoft will sprinkle fairy dust on it and make the hardware more powerful.

fair enough, peroformance issues have to be dealth with. Its not something worth praising either thought, just bugfixing. DirectX wont come to 7. Its being built to work with new kernel from 8 and would simply not work. just like 10+ didnt work on XP. It may actually be the thing that makes me upgrade to 8 eventually. (or 9 perhaps depending on how that turns out).

Yes, Nvidia works hard on optimization from a driver perspective, altrough lately most of it was for SLI performance, which is entirely different beast and is unrelated to console comparisons. However like i said it does not so much improve hardware performance overall as it makes drivers support the game code better. and thats really software optimization, something a developer does for consoles themselves since MS surely aint going to bother.

the PC injection was made because of the often used false pretence that consoles somehow magically optimize themselves and run better on weaker hardware. i merely pointed out that thats not going to be the case, removing the argument of consoles doing anything special here.

Yeah, the people working on 12 is likely cooperating with a lot of other people. They certainly should if they want to make API suitable for good developement. I guess that confirms that Xbox Done will support 12 fully though.
Yeah, the complicated APU thing is really going to hurt them, just like it hurt PS3. thing is, its not actually faster, unlike the PS3 processor was, so even studios that bother untangling that web (and most wont, because why would they) wont really see as much improvement as PS3 had. PS3 processor was fastest in the world until i7 launched, didnt help it much in making games run better though.

fair enough, you seem to be one of the very few that actually are saying more than fairy dust.

Without trying to be rude you made up the whole "false pretence", that was you not me. All I said that amongst other things that "fixing the performance issues" deserved some recognition, I never claimed that consoles where "special" and that they will be "making the hardware more powerful" or that they deserve "praise". You dropped that assumption into the conversation and I never claimed any of that at all, all I said was that the fact Microsoft are working hard to fix the Xbone and address the the complaints of the users and potential customers and that is a good thing. But yes they haven't openly apologised but the price drops and dumping of the Kinect is obviously a tacit admission of "we done fucked it up", it would be funny to see Major Nelson apologise for the whole "we cant just throw a switch and get rid of it" however.

Now sorry if that is a bit combative and the discussion has been civil so again sorry for dropping that, it had to be said though.

But back to the XBone yes they have made a similar mistake that Sony made with the PS3, as you say the Xbone APU isn't the same as the PS3s Cell which was very powerful. The Xbone APU seems to go for efficiency in its memory pipelines and evening out the usage of all its cores, it seems they simply didn't have the software ready for launch for some reason. At the end of the day will it equal out its real time performance compared to the PS4? Doubtful but the Xbone should be capable of more than we are seeing, the on screen performance gap should be barely noticeable to most users. We should be seeing slightly lower draw distances, reduced particle effects and maybe a few FPS less and other things that can be disguised and barely noticeable.

I also believe that the efforts Microsoft are taking to fix the Xbone do deserve some recognition instead of the blind fanatic vitriol we see from the MS haters and Sony Ponies, recognition isn't the same praise though. They are handling the situation better than Sony with their post launch woes with the PS3, remember when Ken Kutaragi addressed complaints about the PS3s price point with "get a second job" or "work more hours"? While thats true its still an incredibly insulting thing to tell your potential customers to "be less poor".

I will also add that as someone thats into hardware, PCs and gadgets that as a machine and a piece of hardware I like the PS4 a lot more, its compact runs quiet and cool and packs a lot of power for its size and power consumption. Even without the gap in performance I think the PS4 is a better machine with a better design and build.

 

[grigjd3]

You mean they are going to provide me with the hardware I want at a price I might consider paying? Is this the Microsoft from eight years ago?

 

[Tony2077]

that is nice maybe i will be able to get it after all once i get a decent income again

 

[PunkRex]

Why did I click on this article, I don't have a Xbone or a PS4, maybe i'll pick one up when they have actual good games on them! Why the hell would I-

Stupid double-posting BS....Here's a puppy.

/)^3^(\

 

[Holythirteen]

This also shows that anything Major Nelson said about the Xbox One was total bs and Spencer should continue being the person to bring good PR to the device since all Nelson ever did was just accumulate more hate for the One and Microsoft in general.

Not sure how changing the liar helps anything. Companies know it looks better to have a different liar come in when they need to backpedal, rather than have one liar directly contradict himself from previous statements(lies).

I agree with the move, but I won't be changing my tune on microsoft, but I guess I could play it more quietly? It seems to be upsetting people. It's taken most of the year for microsoft to do it, but I find myself with fewer arguments against them.

It still creeps me out that M$ has this patent.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

Sorry, no, not running into their arms just yet, even now that they've backpedaled on this, this clearly shows how anti-consumer they were TRYING to be. I hope you are enjoying paying 100 bucks extra for a machine that spys on you and charges you with public viewing violations. Have fun. Now that most people won't have a kinect, they probably won't bother putting such a system in place.

My only solace is that M$ owns the patent and is not in an ideal position to use it at the moment. Just glad the other systems haven't tried to put anything similar in place as of yet. Who knows? It's such a magic time to be a gamer...

But that only makes his point, why be consistent?, once they change for the better why?.

Yes, they fixed there mistakes! Go Microsoft! Yay!

Now once they start making smart decisions, people will stop annoying you with their criticism, okay?!? You can either wait until they do, or you can keep antagonizing them! I highly recommend you do the latter, it's obviously much more fun, or we wouldn't all be here doing it, would we?

Gamers criticizing microft's decisions with the XBone just made the XBone better for all of its loyal fans(or most of them at least, I don't have the crystal ball that tells everybody how awesome the DRM and kinect were going to make xbone games so awesome). So now they have to yell at people and say "ok, now it's everything you want, stop complaining about it already", it's not our fault that it takes so much complaining before it even blips on m$'s radar.