Xbox Owner Sues Microsoft for $500 Billion (Yes, Billion)

Celtic_Kerr

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May 21, 2010
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Cid SilverWing said:
If this doesn't bankrupt the big corporate monster, nothing will.

Also I don't care if it's a troll, M$ is an acceptable target even for Nazis. Yes, we crossed the Godzilla Threshold when Halo became the scourge of FPSes.
A company that makes money is an acceptable target to a group of people that attempted to eliminate an entire race?

So basically, The Nazis, who tried, and almost succeeded in exterminating the Jewish people, can look at Microsoft and say "Wow, you're a bunch of pricks"? Really?

Try actually saying something that has an iota to do with the discussion, and try to actually keep on board with the duscussion
 

Kopikatsu

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Celtic_Kerr said:
Cid SilverWing said:
If this doesn't bankrupt the big corporate monster, nothing will.

Also I don't care if it's a troll, M$ is an acceptable target even for Nazis. Yes, we crossed the Godzilla Threshold when Halo became the scourge of FPSes.
A company that makes money is an acceptable target to a group of people that attempted to eliminate an entire race?

So basically, The Nazis, who tried, and almost succeeded in exterminating the Jewish people, can look at Microsoft and say "Wow, you're a bunch of pricks"? Really?

Try actually saying something that has an iota to do with the discussion, and try to actually keep on board with the duscussion
It's called Godwin's Law. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]

Looking at some of the other comments here, I think we need a Godwin's Law for 9-11, too. It got mentioned so many more times than it needed to. Especially because it has fuckall to do with the topic.

Anywho- People have this sick obsession with hating all things bigger than they are. At least they do on this forum. Government? Full of soul-sucking demons, I tell you what. Corporations? Obviously greed incarnate unless they give us their product for free! Demons don't need to eat, or pay mortgages, or have a family right?

People would probably ***** even if they were paragons of virtue and whatever. You either learn to ignore it or join it, because attempting to fight it will just burn you out.

Protip: Corporations don't list things like 'We reserve the right to deny you service at any point' and blah blah blah because they'll planning to fuck you over. It's because if they don't, people will find SOME way to sue them for it. If you want to blame anyone for EULA's and crap, blame the retards who try to sue an electric company for not warning them about the dangers of hitting a broken power line with a metal pole while soaking wet. (Yes, that happened. And yes, the retard family won the case.)
 

Solo-Wing

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Dec 15, 2010
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If I had that kind of money... I would Buy Sega and Activision and Fire everyone involved in Sonic Unleashed/Getting rid of Guitar Hero and green lighting Skylanders respectivly. Then buy Square Enix and force them to make Kingdom hearts 3, Remake FF7, and cancel FF13-2.

Jamash said:
I hope Microsoft pay him the $500 Billion, but in Microsoft Points.

It would be so funny if they deposited 4 Quadrillion Microsoft Points, that's 40000000000000 non transferable Microsoft Points, into his account, then terminated his account as he requested.
That is what I would do.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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a man with aspergers is trying to take on microsoft. why i am not surprised.
his plan sucks though. he has zero legal power to deal here. courts around here would just laugh at him. theres no case.

On the other hand, if somoen puts an end to xbox live im happy.
 

Collins254

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Na, i think it would be pretty funny if they wrote him a letter saying if he, doesnt sort things out with them in 24 hours HE OWES THEM 500Billion, then pay the mail man $25 to post it in the wrong letter box, into the house noone lives in in his street, they still posted him the letter right? just because it doesnt go directly to him "Isnt theyre fault"

see how he likes that:p
 

GonzoGamer

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Verlander said:
GonzoGamer said:
Verlander said:
GonzoGamer said:
Verlander said:
Kinda sounds like a dick. Sorry, but I have no time for fools like this. Of course he won't win anything, no one will take this twat seriously.
Sure, but he isn't trying to be any greater a dick than MS or any other corporation that pulls this same exact BS on their consumers. That's like saying a rape victim is a dick if she tries raping her attacker right back. Most gamers are willing to bend over and take whatever crap the corporations are willing to give, I'm glad there's one who figured out how to give it right back. I'm sure he wont get what he's asking for but I hope he wins something.

And besides, what's $500Bil to MS?
Over five times what they own? Actually, thats a great example of an interesting Mathematical anomoly in humans that I've been writing about, which goes that the more distant the number from the person (in this case large sums of money) the less we can differentiate. Someone immediately would know the difference between £1 and £5, but less people acknowledge the difference between, say, a millionaire and billionaire, despite the fact that the poorest billionaire is a thousand times richer than the poorest millionaire. In this case, Microsoft own roughly $100 Billion in assets, and so suing them for five times that is pretty damn ridiculous.

Anyway, I digress. I agree that big corporations are arseholes, but I don't believe that an act is acceptable if it's done in revenge. Raping someone because you've been raped isn't right, nor is murder for murder sake. Remember, stuff like Sept 11th was based in revenge as well, but it doesn't make up for the massive losses of life on either side of that situation.
Those are the words of someone who?s never been raped. I?ve never been either. However if someone who was raped felt the only way they could feel better about it was raping that person who did it (not just random people) back, I certainly wouldn?t stop her... Or him for that matter. There?s a difference between that and the person becoming a random serial rapist afterwards; that?s not even a fine line.
I was being sarcastic about 500B being a drop in the bucket for them but I know what you mean and the reason people make less of a distinction is because there is such a drastic difference between how much the richest 2% own, and how much (pretty much) everyone else owns. We?re talking about a huge gap and it keeps getting bigger every year. So that amount of money is way beyond most people?s frame of reference. That?s another reason to like this guy, someone out there trying to force the economics to trickle down because as much as the politicians would have you believe that they spread the wealth on their own (and to be fair a few of them do), most don?t unless they have to.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the rape part. I think that last thing any rape victim wants is to rape someone themselves, but it's probably not the best comparison. Being robbed might be a better one? Either way, I get your point, but I don't like this dudes methods.
I'll agree with you there: probably the last thing on the victim's mind but if it was the first thing on the victim's mind, I certainly wouldn't get in the way.
The over litigious nature of many americans pushes me to be skeptical when I first here stories like this too but sometimes these "making a point" lawsuits are just the modern equivalent of Robin Hood...and with less bloodshed too.
 

Druyn

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Kwil said:
What's interesting is that when he loses this case (as he obviously will) it does go toward setting a precedent that unilaterally imposing changes is not legitimate.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the guy acts like a bit of a jerk, otherwise there's a chance he'd get a sympathetic judge who would, in striking his case down, not point out any particular differences from his activities and that of companies which use much the same tactics.

To all those saying: "Herp derp, dummy's gonna lose", of course he is. That's the point.
Its a win win. He either ends up ridiculously rich, or he sets up a precedent that anybody can use as defense against such manipulations in the future. Either way, he takes advantage of the system to do some damage. I like him, even if he is a bit of a tool.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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He has a legitimate point, and truthfully pointing out his reasons and the way he is acting is kind of nessicary to the overall point. If he just remained silent as to how he's going about it, it wouldn't mean as much. His points about where he sends the documents and similar things is important to understanding what he's saying about the companies in question and how ordinary people are hit with these EULAs and such. Likewise his comments about not putting anything in paper make pefect sense in context because the contracts that game companies have had defended exist ONLY within the software, they are not actual, physical, hardcopy documents either.

His point is pretty much that if a company like Microsoft can successfully win cases based on what amounts to text on a computer screen with no signed hardcopy, and no legal review or notarization to prove anything was ever acknowleged by the person on the other end other than the usage of service, then he should be able to win this case according to the precedents that have been established. In fact if he LOSES this case it represents a breakdown of the legal system and it's inherant logic because it would mean that the goverment is declaring that the same rules do not apply to Microsoft as to everyone else... and that puts everything in question.

Arguably while this guy is making a bit of a scene out of it... shades of Michael Moore's "TV Nation" (from back when I actually thought he was funny and had some respect for him), he's not wrong. In fact as I've pointed out before, one of the problems with most attempts to go after gaming/software/computer companies has been that the peopling doing so have not picked the proper avenues of attack. I suspect largely because all of the lawyers who are experts in this kind of thing wind up accepting payments from the big companies so they won't be able to represent an opponent due to "conflict of interests" even if they never wind up directly representing the company (big law firms making a lot of money through such payoffs, a fee to be there as a "potential advisor" or something).

One point about the EULAs and things that have never been pursued is the length of the contract and the complexity of the terms. Not to mention the referances made to various laws and statutes in many cases which are not presented as an attachment to the document for review. Contract law was never my thing when I was in school, but the subject was touched on. In general in the US things like "fine print" hold less sway than you would think in the movies, as a contract can be literally tossed out if it's deemed too complicated or intentionall misleading for the people involved. This is where things like notaries come into play, notaries being neutral parties who review a contract to achieve an understanding of it, but also sign off to verify that all parties involved understood it. That way in the case of a dispute the notaries can be brought on to give their understanding and verify that all parties understood the contract the way that they did. If questioned on these grounds I'm not sure if such contracts being reasonable to the average schmuck gameplayer would fly, especially seeing as they go on, and on, and on in many cases. Then of course there is the whole other issue of money being accepted before the contract, which has also not been accepted. You pay for yoru game box/game in many cases and only get the contract AFTER money has changed hands, which potentially means it's just text since agreeing to a contract was never part of the actual purchuse agreement. With digital distribution this can be less clear, but for boxed games and products it's a point that has never been properly pursued, technically they should make you sign the contract as part of the purchusing process when money (or credit) changes hands.


At any rate, I'm rambling. I doubt the guy will get 500 billion, but I'm kind of hoping the court system actually does it's job properly on these grounds, since tournabout is fair play, and awards the guy a couple of billion "in proportion to the damages". Enough to really hurt Microsoft, but not drive them entirely out of business. Then hopefully that will adjust some attitudes and make the industry a kinder, gentler, place for use end users, especially if the precedent works in such a way that the companies can't respond by trying to get even more ridiculous using some variation of the same policies.

Hey, if he wins maybe he'll kick a couple of million to me since I'm cheering for him. :)

From where I am sitting this whole situation is a thing of beauty, and it's really going to take some backhanded interpetations of the law to say that this guy isn't just as right as the company he's going after is, especially seeing as it's won on grounds that are just as dubious.
 

Hero in a half shell

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Dec 30, 2009
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Kwil said:
What's interesting is that when he loses this case (as he obviously will) it does go toward setting a precedent that unilaterally imposing changes is not legitimate.

Unfortunately, it sounds like the guy acts like a bit of a jerk, otherwise there's a chance he'd get a sympathetic judge who would, in striking his case down, not point out any particular differences from his activities and that of companies which use much the same tactics.

To all those saying: "Herp derp, dummy's gonna lose", of course he is. That's the point.
Oh good Lord you're right, It's a Xanatos gambit the likes of which I've never seen in the real world before. Unfortunately these large multinational companies tend to be above the law when it comes to crap like what happens in EULAs and other contracts. Look at the multitude of programs and devices that track your movements, scan your computer and files, and do other things criminally invasive to your personal privacy, but they mention it in their contracts, which no one ever reads, and when it is pointed out we shake our heads, wave our fingers.... and do absolutely nothing about it. Mircosoft will probably be able to afford the lawyer-power to settle this case without having to change any of their business practices, although it was a noble try.
 

Khanht Cope

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Jul 22, 2011
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As much as I'd love to see a regular joe take it to big business, his entire side of the 'dispute' is obnoxious, unreasonable and bewildering in it brashness.

Like if you had a 6 year old daughter who tried to tell you that if you didn't complete a cross-globe trip in an hour, you'd have to buy her a castle.

This is a (slightly) more grown-up, legal nonsense equivalent.

Even if the law could technically fall on his side; he's going against big business in corporate America. The law would change.

Taking out the corporate corruption and string pulling angle; what judge would ever want to oversee a precedent that would cause that kind of economic damage and put that many people out of work?

One man hoarding $500 billion dollars worth of wealth is obscene in nothing other than itself. The only way it could be seen as remotely noble is if he flew a balloon and threw out the cash down to the people. Even that would be a dumb way to go about nobility.
 

FamoFunk

Dad, I'm in space.
Mar 10, 2010
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Wouldn't be hilarious if Microsoft just handed over half a trillion to him. *sigh*
 

Verlander

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GonzoGamer said:
Verlander said:
GonzoGamer said:
Verlander said:
GonzoGamer said:
Verlander said:
Kinda sounds like a dick. Sorry, but I have no time for fools like this. Of course he won't win anything, no one will take this twat seriously.
Sure, but he isn't trying to be any greater a dick than MS or any other corporation that pulls this same exact BS on their consumers. That's like saying a rape victim is a dick if she tries raping her attacker right back. Most gamers are willing to bend over and take whatever crap the corporations are willing to give, I'm glad there's one who figured out how to give it right back. I'm sure he wont get what he's asking for but I hope he wins something.

And besides, what's $500Bil to MS?
Over five times what they own? Actually, thats a great example of an interesting Mathematical anomoly in humans that I've been writing about, which goes that the more distant the number from the person (in this case large sums of money) the less we can differentiate. Someone immediately would know the difference between £1 and £5, but less people acknowledge the difference between, say, a millionaire and billionaire, despite the fact that the poorest billionaire is a thousand times richer than the poorest millionaire. In this case, Microsoft own roughly $100 Billion in assets, and so suing them for five times that is pretty damn ridiculous.

Anyway, I digress. I agree that big corporations are arseholes, but I don't believe that an act is acceptable if it's done in revenge. Raping someone because you've been raped isn't right, nor is murder for murder sake. Remember, stuff like Sept 11th was based in revenge as well, but it doesn't make up for the massive losses of life on either side of that situation.
Those are the words of someone who?s never been raped. I?ve never been either. However if someone who was raped felt the only way they could feel better about it was raping that person who did it (not just random people) back, I certainly wouldn?t stop her... Or him for that matter. There?s a difference between that and the person becoming a random serial rapist afterwards; that?s not even a fine line.
I was being sarcastic about 500B being a drop in the bucket for them but I know what you mean and the reason people make less of a distinction is because there is such a drastic difference between how much the richest 2% own, and how much (pretty much) everyone else owns. We?re talking about a huge gap and it keeps getting bigger every year. So that amount of money is way beyond most people?s frame of reference. That?s another reason to like this guy, someone out there trying to force the economics to trickle down because as much as the politicians would have you believe that they spread the wealth on their own (and to be fair a few of them do), most don?t unless they have to.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the rape part. I think that last thing any rape victim wants is to rape someone themselves, but it's probably not the best comparison. Being robbed might be a better one? Either way, I get your point, but I don't like this dudes methods.
I'll agree with you there: probably the last thing on the victim's mind but if it was the first thing on the victim's mind, I certainly wouldn't get in the way.
The over litigious nature of many americans pushes me to be skeptical when I first here stories like this too but sometimes these "making a point" lawsuits are just the modern equivalent of Robin Hood...and with less bloodshed too.
Yeah, true that, especially about the over litigious nature of many Americans. It comes across like a culture
 

Shivarage

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Khanht Cope said:
his entire side of the 'dispute' is obnoxious, unreasonable and bewildering in it brashness.
He'd be PERFECT for a corporate businesses legal team :D
 

Asuka Soryu

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Eh, I don't care about this guy and I don't particularaly like Microsoft, so it's win/win for me no matter what.