XCOM: Enemy Unknown Has Permadeath For A Reason

[Nielas]

In addition, what is meant by 'perma-death'? I thought it was common practice for soldiers killed in action to stay killed, unless your playing Mount and Blade with a high surgery skill.

I really do not get what they mean by this. It is pretty standard in RTS games that when an unit is killed, you have to build a new one to replace it.

Are they going to remove the Save Game option? "Save scumming" was quite popular in the original X-Com. If a mission went really bad, you would just load the game and try the mission again.

This seems like a lot of hype over nothing.

 

[chimeracreator]

In addition, what is meant by 'perma-death'? I thought it was common practice for soldiers killed in action to stay killed, unless your playing Mount and Blade with a high surgery skill.

I really do not get what they mean by this. It is pretty standard in RTS games that when an unit is killed, you have to build a new one to replace it.

Are they going to remove the Save Game option? "Save scumming" was quite popular in the original X-Com. If a mission went really bad, you would just load the game and try the mission again.

This seems like a lot of hype over nothing.

Most RTS's don't allow non-hero units to level however, and those with hero units that do level like Warcraft 3 often allow them to come back to life. It does look save scumming is a valid option in this unless you play a game in iron man mode which disables the save feature for you and apparently auto-saves every turn. That said Fraxis is playing up the hype with this, but at least for me it's working.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I am a bit concerned about the "only 4 squad members" business, though.

I believe it actually starts at 4 and can be extended to 6 through proper researching. Also I don't think that 4-6 person cap includes stuff like the tracked robot shown in the trailer.

I hope this is true; I definitely miss the 10-person squads from the original.

The thing is that in the original UFO unless you really worked at spreading your XP out you would generally have a 6-8 man squad of competent guys and then another 10 or so door openers/grenade detectors who you might, might trust with a pointy stick if they didn't look too feeble brained.

It was largely a function of the fact that a Faceless Goon was so cackhandedly rubbish at absolutely everything that as soon as a couple of them made a few lucky shots and got their accuracy up it was best to use them for all shooting ever.

So actually, small squad size where your guys start out borderline competent is probably going to lead to more interesting and less gamey play.

 

[6SteW6]

Otherwise the whole thing's less of an achievement than it could have been. There's a place for narrative-driven games, but that place isn't where XCOM needs to be.

I understand the point he's trying to convey, that there is no narrative in X-com itself but I don't think there has been any other game in the history of gaming that has given me the oppertunity to build my own narrative as I play.

With the ability to customize my character and name them after my friends made it a very personal and nerve wracking experience when your best buddy was pinned down and you were unsure if you were going to make it in time!

 

[weirdee]

Yeah, with a lesser focus on clown car tactics and each soldier actually having enough basic training to hit something, there's less risk of death overall, but more losses incurred when your specialization goes up in smoke from bad luck or bad decision.

 

[T'Generalissimo]

I'm fine with this. The only change I want to XCom's difficulty is to change the learning curve into a curve instead of a punch in the face.

If this game doesn't sell well, this kind of classic 90s computer game is going to be basically fucked forever though.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Wait...

They are giving the game to a design team that understands what was appealing about an old series they are rebooting?

STOP THE PRESSES! D:

 

[Callate]

A little clarification here. By "permadeath", we just mean that if someone takes a fatal injury, they aren't going to be Phoenix Downed back into the storyline, yes? As per the original X-Com, that is- dead is dead, and if you care that much, you're going to have to load an earlier save point.

'Cuz- don't laugh- I played a couple of games designed by sadistic bastards back in the day wherein if characters died, they saved that status- that is, even when you reloaded, they were still dead. And I really never found that particular quirk endearing.

 

[ScruffyMcBalls]

A little clarification here. By "permadeath", we just mean that if someone takes a fatal injury, they aren't going to be Phoenix Downed back into the storyline, yes? As per the original X-Com, that is- dead is dead, and if you care that much, you're going to have to load an earlier save point.

'Cuz- don't laugh- I played a couple of games designed by sadistic bastards back in the day wherein if characters died, they saved that status- that is, even when you reloaded, they were still dead. And I really never found that particular quirk endearing.

Don't worry, you can save characters back into existence. The devs mentioned doing this a few times during play testing during their interview with Angry Joe and The Spoony One.

 

[ScruffyMcBalls]

Perma-death? Perma-death!? FUCK YEAH! I've been waiting for a challenge like this, BRING IT ON! URGH!

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Hes right: I am going to love the extra difficulty that comes with training a mook into a full blown Commando Badass, only to have him die by having his guts ripped out by a Berserker in the last month before I destroy the last of the aliens, And then I will feel like a prick because I made a stupid move that got him attacked in the first place. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AFatherToHisMen]

It reminds me of Tom Clancys: Endwar, except taken further. In Endwar, you could respawn your unit as long as one squad/vehicle was still alive....Not now.

 

[Evil Smurf]

so...I can snort games?

 

[chimeracreator]

I hope they have a res option like if you take a medic into battle they can bring squaddies back up.

Because honestly I dont want to suddenly have one cheesy attack obliterate half my army.

If they keep the wound system from the original then the purpose of a medic (if there is one) won't be to bring soldiers back to life, because dead is dead, but to prevent soldiers from bleeding out before the mission ends... just like it should be.

 

[Antari]

Hes right: I am going to love the extra difficulty that comes with training a mook into a full blown Commando Badass, only to have him die by having his guts ripped out by a Berserker in the last month before I destroy the last of the aliens, And then I will feel like a prick because I made a stupid move that got him attacked in the first place. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AFatherToHisMen]

It reminds me of Tom Clancys: Endwar, except taken further. In Endwar, you could respawn your unit as long as one squad/vehicle was still alive....Not now.

In Xcom if your team goes down, the enemy gets the ship they took to get there as well.

 

[lacktheknack]

I hope they have a res option like if you take a medic into battle they can bring squaddies back up.

Because honestly I dont want to suddenly have one cheesy attack obliterate half my army.

Guess what was a common occurrence in the first games? (Tip: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T CLUSTER.)

And the whole point of "perma-death" is that there is no Phoenix Down, Resurrect spell, etc. So no, no res option. Sorry.

so...I can snort games?

http://premiumhandcoffeegrinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Hand-coffee-grinder-foxrun.jpg

Where there's a will...

 

[Irridium]

I am a bit concerned about the "only 4 squad members" business, though.

I believe it actually starts at 4 and can be extended to 6 through proper researching. Also I don't think that 4-6 person cap includes stuff like the tracked robot shown in the trailer.

I hope this is true; I definitely miss the 10-person squads from the original.

The thing is that in the original UFO unless you really worked at spreading your XP out you would generally have a 6-8 man squad of competent guys and then another 10 or so door openers/grenade detectors who you might, might trust with a pointy stick if they didn't look too feeble brained.

It was largely a function of the fact that a Faceless Goon was so cackhandedly rubbish at absolutely everything that as soon as a couple of them made a few lucky shots and got their accuracy up it was best to use them for all shooting ever.

So actually, small squad size where your guys start out borderline competent is probably going to lead to more interesting and less gamey play.

Yeah. In the original it usually boiled down to just having the recruits rush in, die, and having your good dudes clean up whatever's left.

So yeah, I like the change to a smaller squad. Their reason for doing so makes a decent amount of sense, and isn't the standard "we changed it to appeal to a broader audience" bullshit.

 

[Draconalis]

Squad of 4, max 6....

That's still all I have to say about that.

 

[Veldel]

I am a bit concerned about the "only 4 squad members" business, though.

I believe it actually starts at 4 and can be extended to 6 through proper researching. Also I don't think that 4-6 person cap includes stuff like the tracked robot shown in the trailer.

I honestly wouldnt mind it being 6 or 8 and moving up from there

I always used 6-8 ppl in a mission with the rest waiting as backup in the skyranger

 

[Veldel]

I am a bit concerned about the "only 4 squad members" business, though.

I believe it actually starts at 4 and can be extended to 6 through proper researching. Also I don't think that 4-6 person cap includes stuff like the tracked robot shown in the trailer.

I hope this is true; I definitely miss the 10-person squads from the original.

The thing is that in the original UFO unless you really worked at spreading your XP out you would generally have a 6-8 man squad of competent guys and then another 10 or so door openers/grenade detectors who you might, might trust with a pointy stick if they didn't look too feeble brained.

It was largely a function of the fact that a Faceless Goon was so cackhandedly rubbish at absolutely everything that as soon as a couple of them made a few lucky shots and got their accuracy up it was best to use them for all shooting ever.

So actually, small squad size where your guys start out borderline competent is probably going to lead to more interesting and less gamey play.

Yeah. In the original it usually boiled down to just having the recruits rush in, die, and having your good dudes clean up whatever's left.

So yeah, I like the change to a smaller squad. Their reason for doing so makes a decent amount of sense, and isn't the standard "we changed it to appeal to a broader audience" bullshit.

I just wish it started at 6 or 8 then I could use my normal numbers 4 just feels to small to me but im not completly dismissing it I plan to buy this on release as im a XCOM addict right now replaying the entire series