Xenomorphs - ruthless killing machines or just misunderstood?

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Not Lord Atkin

I'm dead inside.
Oct 25, 2008
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DoPo said:
I understand that. I'm not saying the crew had much choice in the matter either and neither am I saying that what they did was wrong, given the circumstances.

What I'm trying to say is that what the alien did wasn't strictly speaking 'wrong' either. There's a difference (to me at least) between killing because I'm programmed to or because I want to and killing because I'm trying to survive.

What I'm doing here is trying to challenge the notion of the alien being a programmed killing machine with no other purpose than to wipe out everything that moves.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Desert Punk said:
The aliens rushed the guns for about a minute, humans have used human wave tactics in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave_attack

Fun fact: Humans rushed entrenched machinegun positions en mass in World War 1...just like the aliens do. But humans arent squirrels.

And they have been shown to be tool using, opening doors, being exposed to something ONCE and knowing exactly how it works and what its consequences are.
Difference is, the human attacks had the specific purpose of taking out said MG's with no other way to get to them. The Aliens just charge them because that's the way they've been going back and forth before. It would be a very stupid human that charged up an alleyway at an emplaced machinegun when they could just find another way round, especially when taking the time to do so would have no negative consequences.

No, the alien queen does that, the warriors are trained. c.f. Nightmare Asylum.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Interesting. An Alien virgin always tastes so sweet.

The one thought that zipped through my headspace repeatedly when reading your lines was this:

You are supposed to side with the humans, not the vagina crab impregnator monster or the dickhead killer manbeast monster.

There are repeated hints and nudges and stabs at capitalist entities or the military-industrial complex to be picked up along the way, if you're so inclined. To me, it's mainly about making an entertaining movie and a microwavable dish of reflections on human nature. Oh, and I absolutey love Weaver's portrayal of Ripley, that was the most inspiring thing I've seen up to that point in time. A female hero, a warrior queen fighting a multi-phallic monster with a dickhead, a protractable mouth inside a mouth, a face like death personified and a tail that could be used to grill shishkabobs and marshmallows on an open fire or run you through like it's no business at all. Gotta love that.

There is very little 'human' and nothing 'humane' about the Alien creature, and I think if you find yourself romantically entangled with the beast, you really need to either seek therapy to dispel your detachment from the human condition or continue watching the other Alien movies, in chronological order of their respective release dates. Here's my short list for reference:

Alien: Must-see movie that continues to inspire all sorts of space horror (and nightmares)
Aliens: Must-see action movie, different from the first one, just as inspiring (less horror, more gadgets)
Alien 3: Brown weaksauce of WTF, some cheap laughs, plenty more dicks
Alien (4): Resurrection: The beginning of random chaos, writers ruining things and directors not having a clue about what's going on and why they suck
Prometheus: Fuck movies, fuck prequels, fuck origin stories.

It is absolutely natural to feel sorry for the franchise at around 3 or 4, and turn misanthropic by the end credits of Prometheus rolling. Since you're already way off my chart after seeing but the first one, I do beg you to keep us posted on what you think of the other Alien movies.

The Aliens vs. Predator abominations are not Alien movies, they're more like mental belly button fluff or those abominable things you find in the bargain bin or in the 'Vampyres vs. Werewolves' drawer. It's licensed, empty-caloried shlock for the feeble minded.

Oh, and: Fuck Ash. Ash was absolutely happy with every single human being dying or at least being turned into a cryostasis hatchery for alien warriors that would then be used and marketed as weapons of mass destruction. Bonus round: Fuck Ash!
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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Johny_X2 said:
What I'm doing here is trying to challenge the notion of the alien being a programmed killing machine with no other purpose than to wipe out everything that moves.
Well, from what we saw in Alien, it sure seems that way. The alien ship they find with the pilot dead looks like a kind of warning that things are not safe, and then there is the warning transmission which one deploys usually when things are not safe. And, of course, there is the whole lifecycle involving killing, too. Even if it's not a "programmed killing machine" per se, it would still "wipe out everything that moves" due to that.
 

Anti-American Eagle

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Sure sure sure. Lets assume it's father didn't intend to suicidally rape some random guy and then murder him with it's offspring. Now lets assume the offspring didn't intend to (violently and painfully) murder said random guy during it's birth. Now why did it kill another random guy (who was terrified) who was looking for a cat (who was scared shitless)? I'll just let that sink in for awhile.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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rhizhim said:
so your attempt to symphatise doesnt hold on much.

also:
Aye, the original Alien of the original movie is just meant to be a Universal Soldier, a Terminator, a Predator, the ultimate killing machine. Not much backstory, it just is... and kills everyone in sight.

Hah. I see your Naked Space and I raise with... Mr. Blobby. Enjoy.

<youtube=C-tKToKmCFU>
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Desert Punk said:
The humans could have gone the looong way around as well, slipped special forces in behind them, ect. They didnt.

The Russians did the same damn thing in world war 2! They had planes and bombs and tanks and the like, yet they still used human waves to take positions. Why? because they could.

The aliens in this case are no different. Sure they used the passage, it was quicker, and they had the numbers to take the position which they did.
Except that, you know, they couldn't because the defensive lines stretched right across Europe, the seas were full of ships and the skies were full of planes. No matter which way they went they were going to take a fuckton of casualties. Same in WWII.

All the aliens had to do was not take that 1 corridor. It wasn't quicker. They spent a minute getting shot to pieces then gave up and took a better route.


Desert Punk said:
Even the drone in Alien showed intelligence without a queen there to give it a brain according to your theory. It has a MASSIVE ship that it is roaming around in, it can go where ever it pleases, but where does it go when things get loud and explody? The one, single, escape ship. The door was also closed remember, it had to open the door to get in there and yet, no queen to give it direction.

And if it was the queen giving the warriors direction, they wouldn't have jabbered at eachother to form consensus, and the other alien wouldnt have struggled when it was used to create a hole, that showed individuality AND understanding of what was going on around it and the motives of the other two.

The queen also had no reason to give a shit if one warrior was getting blasted with cold liquid, the warrior itself after one blast learned what the button did, and that it should avoid it. I tried to teach my cat to not scratch my computer chair with blasts of cold water but guess what? She was like "fuck that."

Edit: The xenomorphs are like pretty much any other force, the soldiers are pretty damn decent on their own. Smart, ingenuitive, and deadly. Even more so when you have a squad of em, But when you have a general around, they become highly organized and much more effective. That is what a queen does. She doesnt nurse maid each one along on its path "no honey dont mess with the glass, if you do the bad man will shoot cold stuff at you." she gives them a unified purpose "All xenomorphs to the escape pod bay, the humans are escaping!"
How is this relevant to being as intelligent as a human as opposed to say a dog or a chimp?

Ripley had already gone into the escape pod, then went back for the cat. Why would an ambush predator go and wait where it's prey might turn up? Beats me.

Also getting a cat to do what you want? Yeah, good luck with that.
 

Brainwreck

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If I'm not mistaken, the xenomorphs are actually genetically engineered weapons of a sort.
As in, they were deliberately created to be literal ruthless killing machines, going above and beyond the call for brutality that a simple beast struggling for survival would operate by.
 

AgentNein

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thaluikhain said:
rhizhim said:
the xenomorphs act iike animals, you are interpreting too much in their behaviour.
They cut the power. How did they do that, they're just animals?

Also, the alien queen recognised the flamethrower, and a threat, an alien opened a door on the dropship, the queen operated the lift, one stowed away on the ship and must have operated machinery when everyone was asleep, an alien understood the freezing button thingy, and also knew that the acid from a dead alien would release them etc
And they believe that some birds learn how to use tools. Not just actions passed down through evolution, but actual no foolin' learning. I think most interesting actions by the aliens can be chalked up to either this, or just lazy writing.
 

AgentNein

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BurnedOutMyEyes said:
If I'm not mistaken, the xenomorphs are actually genetically engineered weapons of a sort.
As in, they were deliberately created to be literal ruthless killing machines, going above and beyond the call for brutality that a simple beast struggling for survival would operate by.
Can we all just pretend that Prometheus never happened?
 

Froggy Slayer

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You have to remember that the Xenomorphs are suggested to be (and outright confirmed to be, depending on which canon that you're taking) genetically engineered weapons. They're not animals; not really. Instead, they're machines, built for killing, with flesh and acid in the place of the normal metal mechanisms of war. They are no more or less to blame for killing than a genetically engineered virus would be.
 

Scarim Coral

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Depending on the lore/ canon you read, I read that they were genetically made by the Predator to be their hunt like a fox to the royal families hunter or whatever you called. Since the Predator are like the ultimate space hunter, they made them as they are, ultimate killing machine then some emtional and feeling animal.
 

Brainwreck

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AgentNein said:
BurnedOutMyEyes said:
If I'm not mistaken, the xenomorphs are actually genetically engineered weapons of a sort.
As in, they were deliberately created to be literal ruthless killing machines, going above and beyond the call for brutality that a simple beast struggling for survival would operate by.
Can we all just pretend that Prometheus never happened?
I'm pretty sure this was a thing a long time before Prometheus was even a shadow of a thought.
 

AgentNein

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BurnedOutMyEyes said:
AgentNein said:
BurnedOutMyEyes said:
If I'm not mistaken, the xenomorphs are actually genetically engineered weapons of a sort.
As in, they were deliberately created to be literal ruthless killing machines, going above and beyond the call for brutality that a simple beast struggling for survival would operate by.
Can we all just pretend that Prometheus never happened?
I'm pretty sure this was a thing a long time before Prometheus was even a shadow of a thought.
Hmm, I don't remember that in any of the movies pre Prometheus, but perhaps I've forgotten.
 

Wereduck

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AgentNein said:
BurnedOutMyEyes said:
AgentNein said:
BurnedOutMyEyes said:
If I'm not mistaken, the xenomorphs are actually genetically engineered weapons of a sort.
As in, they were deliberately created to be literal ruthless killing machines, going above and beyond the call for brutality that a simple beast struggling for survival would operate by.
Can we all just pretend that Prometheus never happened?
I'm pretty sure this was a thing a long time before Prometheus was even a shadow of a thought.
Hmm, I don't remember that in any of the movies pre Prometheus, but perhaps I've forgotten.
Pretty sure that was never stated but it was my pet theory from Aliens on. It simply didn't make any sense for an animal to be that deadly as a consequence of evolution - especially when they go into hybernation as soon as they've exterminated all other life in their area.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Applying morality to the actions of the xenomorphs is like trying to apply morality to a wolf hunting and killing a deer. You just can't because there is no morality to apply, it is simply how the predator/prey relationship works. The only difference is that when it comes to the xenomorphs humans are the prey.
 

ccggenius12

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I agree, the movie is called Alien for crying out loud, of course the alien is the protagonist. Just like Hans Gruber is the protagonist of Die Hard (he died, hard.). As well, all the Terminator wanted to do was kill all humans. Was that so wrong?
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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That's what I liked about Alien over the other Alien films, they literally made it feel like it was more than just a dangerous animal. That's what I took away from it any way, because a good horror doesn't make the villain/creature something easy to kill and leaves certain pieces unexplained.

I wouldn't say the crew is to blame in any way since it's still dangerous to keep roaming around, they had to take action against it because they weren't sure it would attack them later or give them diseases. Also, I'm sure we would feel angry about a friend dying from any creature/alien, so it would be hard to be open to it.

I reckon the alien seemed a bit misunderstood but still too aggresive to accept since they actually striked first. Doesn't matter if it was just a face hugger, it's still first blood. And at the beginning where they were searching for the beacon, there was another alien sitting on a chair or something with a massive hole in it's chest. They seem more like a deadly plague that requires other life forms to expand their population. That's what I gathered after watching the first before the rest. It's funny, people say Aliens is alright story wise because it's a good movie, but I still reckon that movie turned the series into a shit direction first.
 

Zeema

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I actually like the xenomorphs, i think there cute :D

they just need big hugs.
 

Skeleon

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Lieju said:
You'd need to look on how the xenomorphs act with each other.
Well, they certainly have problem solving skills, but they are not empathetic towards one another. In Alien 4, they gang up on one of their own and viciously slaughter it to use its acid blood to escape their cages. That's smart in a gruesome "for the greater good"-kind of way, but not really indicative of particularly social behaviour.

I think the comparison to soldier ants somebody made in this thread is kind of neat in that they clearly don't care about individual aliens' survival; they will throw lesser specimens in the line of fire and kill their own if they perceive it to be of overall benefit. They are calculating but without mercy towards every living thing, including themselves. The only possible exception might be the queens and their eggs, which would make sense as they are the only kinds of individuals necessary for survival of the species. Protecting them at the cost of losing loads of soldier and worker specimens makes sense.

Anyway, to add to this, there are a lot of indicators that xenomorphs are biologically designed weapons and that the ship they were first found in was actually a sort of bomber, a bomber carrying weapons of mass destruction, basically. The Space Jockey (the fossilized pilot they find there) being infested and killed was presumably an accident, like a bomb going off before it is at its destination. This is further supported by Prometheus, although I don't really think of that movie as canon too much. But it adds to it, I guess. Still, it's implied in the very first Alien movie already.

If you were to design a biological weapon like that, there is little reason to give it empathy. It does require some basic sense of self-preservation to avoid losing a lot of its effectiveness though (lest it pointlessly jump into holes and kill itself or something or enemy forces could figure out a single strategy that would always work against them; they need to be able to adapt to be useful), which would explain aliens' reaction to fire and other obvious threats. At the same time, they do view a lot of their forms as expendable, which is why they rushed quite a number of xenomorphs into the auto-turrets in Aliens (2) before ceasing the pointless assault (they couldn't know the guns were almost out of ammo, so the assault would actually have succeeded if they had kept it up a little longer): You wouldn't want to let their survival instinct overrule their main function, which is to be an expendable soldier, a weapon.

By the way, the OP puts a lot of emphasis on "survivor". Personally, I never interpreted that as a "poor, misunderstood, alone survivor, the last of its kind there" or something like that, but more as a description of how it is designed: Capable of withstanding most environmental threats, requiring little food or sleep, being rather single-minded in its hunt etc.. It's a survivor, i. e. a creature well designed for survival... in a combat zone, basically.