Yes, Women in Dragon Age Could Use Longswords

[Major_Tom]

Oh, but everyone is fine with women using katanas. The fucking katana weighs the same as the goddamned longsword! And longswords are usually better balanced.

 

[Aggieknight]

There's no "irony of arguing about 'realism' in a game with dragons on the cover," because all stories need some kind of realism. Or to put it differently: The stupid parts of, say, Naruto don't become less gorram stupid just because it's a manga about ninjas.

Fantasy may be fantasy, but it still follows the rule of "like reality unlike otherwise stated."

Not necessarily. Some of the best stories have a near complete lack of realism (ex: Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream).

However, one of the important elements is referred to as "Suspension of Disbelief" - a storyteller must convince viewers that the events are believable, even if they are unrealistic. A reader/viewer/gamer can accept a lot of unrealistic events as long as there is an underlying logic that the consumer can hold on too. Once "broken", the storyteller quickly loses their viewers' attention. For example, I can accept that there are giant robots from outer space that can adjust their shape back and forth between human-like bipedal shapes to machines inspired by earth machines, but I cannot accept Marky-Mark as an inventor. Suspension of disbelief broke; attention lost; movie dumb waste of money.

I'm an amateur author that is steadily and slowly working my way through my first novel (have written many short stories), and one of the priorities my reviewers look for in new texts are areas where the reader is pulled out of the story (ala suspension lost).

 

[Queen Michael]

There's no "irony of arguing about 'realism' in a game with dragons on the cover," because all stories need some kind of realism. Or to put it differently: The stupid parts of, say, Naruto don't become less gorram stupid just because it's a manga about ninjas.

Fantasy may be fantasy, but it still follows the rule of "like reality unlike otherwise stated."

Not necessarily. Some of the best stories have a near complete lack of realism (ex: Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream).

However, one of the important elements is referred to as "Suspension of Disbelief" - a storyteller must convince viewers that the events are believable, even if they are unrealistic. A reader/viewer/gamer can accept a lot of unrealistic events as long as there is an underlying logic that the consumer can hold on too. Once "broken", the storyteller quickly loses their viewers' attention. For example, I can accept that there are giant robots from outer space that can adjust their shape back and forth between human-like bipedal shapes to machines inspired by earth machines, but I cannot accept Marky-Mark as an inventor. Suspension of disbelief broke; attention lost; movie dumb waste of money.

I'm an amateur author that is steadily and slowly working my way through my first novel (have written many short stories), and one of the priorities my reviewers look for in new texts are areas where the reader is pulled out of the story (ala suspension lost).

I get your point and I agree, actually. What I meant was that if it'd been impossible for women to handle a longsword (which it of course isn't), you need to give an explanation for how they can handle them. (Well, unless the universe as a whole is one where everybody goes around with gigantic swords.)

 

[Scorpid]

Without silicone or other breast "augmentation" going on, I am pretty sure most women would be just fine. The breastplate is just going to press them down (silicone would frustrate this). Its armor, not a pushup bra. Hell, for running and fighting, compression would be what any woman would want. So unless she had freakishly huge boobs, its not going to be a real issue.

Of course, now we are getting into the whole realistic armor vs. female fantasy armor problem. Your point is much more accurate for female fantasy armor... which would just get a woman killed rather than protect her.

I said well endowed women not every women, and compression doesn't make them smaller, the mass is still here and breast do not compress that much, they will be less prone to move but still they are denying you to use some technique with two hand. Because you can not compress them too much either, if you do you will restrict other movement.

It does not even need to be that big, a C cup can be enough especially if the female is not really tall. It's a concern for women in HEMA that's something you need to think of. And that's for unarmoured combat, a breast plate made to accomodate such physique would still stop you to use two handed technique, so better stick with a one handed sword.

Hell even male with over bloated pectoral muscle can not use two handed sword technique.

Not talking out of my arse here, but experience.

Thats cool they can just hack off a boob like Scythian women would do to get those pesky things out of the way. Only need one to nurse a baby after all.

 

[daibakuha]

Oh, but everyone is fine with women using katanas. The fucking katana weighs the same as the goddamned longsword! And longswords are usually better balanced.

Has more to do with how the weapons are used. Katanas are about slicing, using the blade's edge instead of the force behind the swing. Traditional European weapons are more about brute force, generally speaking.

That isn't to say I disagree with the article or anything, I don't at all. But this is why people think it makes more sense.

 

[blackaesir]

Without silicone or other breast "augmentation" going on, I am pretty sure most women would be just fine. The breastplate is just going to press them down (silicone would frustrate this). Its armor, not a pushup bra. Hell, for running and fighting, compression would be what any woman would want. So unless she had freakishly huge boobs, its not going to be a real issue.

Of course, now we are getting into the whole realistic armor vs. female fantasy armor problem. Your point is much more accurate for female fantasy armor... which would just get a woman killed rather than protect her.

I said well endowed women not every women, and compression doesn't make them smaller, the mass is still here and breast do not compress that much, they will be less prone to move but still they are denying you to use some technique with two hand. Because you can not compress them too much either, if you do you will restrict other movement.

It does not even need to be that big, a C cup can be enough especially if the female is not really tall. It's a concern for women in HEMA that's something you need to think of. And that's for unarmoured combat, a breast plate made to accomodate such physique would still stop you to use two handed technique, so better stick with a one handed sword.

Hell even male with over bloated pectoral muscle can not use two handed sword technique.

Not talking out of my arse here, but experience.

Well, fair enough, except one, you are saying its a shape issue as well as a mass issue and two, you are talking about a very specific subset of techniquest specific to unarmored two-handed sword fighting that, by your own admission, men with large pecs and anybody wearing armor also can't perform. I mean, I totally hear what you are saying. Its not different than saying a person with short arms is not going to reliably be able to perform some counter-punching techniques or that a person with really long arms will encounter difficulties performing certain infighting techniques related to foil fencing.

But I think in terms of the big picture, a woman's mammary glands just aren't going to preclude her from using two-handed weapons in combat, including two-handed swords. Everyone who seriosuly pursues some martial form of training learns how to fit what they learn to their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

[link]http://teadrunktailor.tumblr.com[/link]

This is my friend Alison, she knows how to joust and swordfight with a full weight weapon... people who think women can't use longswords or heavy weapons are wrong.

I've got another female friend who also swordfights, is "well endowed" and actually did some VA for Dragon Age Inquistion... anyone who says women can't use longswords is wroooonnnggggg

 

[Abomination]

Exceptions to the norm do not define the norm, folks. While some women are capable of surpassing the average male it doesn't mean that it's going to happen approaching a 50/50 split that Thedas likes to give us.

It's not established that women are on par with men physically in Thedas, in fact the opposite is true, and the reason for female warriors being fewer than men in reality are still present in Thedas - and I'm not just talking the average physical build.

Offer more body type options, not the same damn model. Cassandra doesn't work because she's tiny, not because she's a woman. Just compare her to Iron Bull.

 

[small]

im more weirded out by the lack of spears you find in games

 

[Thebazilly]

Exceptions to the norm do not define the norm, folks. While some women are capable of surpassing the average male it doesn't mean that it's going to happen approaching a 50/50 split that Thedas likes to give us.

It's not established that women are on par with men physically in Thedas, in fact the opposite is true, and the reason for female warriors being fewer than men in reality are still present in Thedas - and I'm not just talking the average physical build.

Offer more body type options, not the same damn model. Cassandra doesn't work because she's tiny, not because she's a woman. Just compare her to Iron Bull.

I don't think you read the article.

The whole point is that the difference in strength between men and women doesn't even factor in. Longswords are light enough and the difference is negligible enough that women being the "weaker sex" doesn't matter. You don't need to be a muscle mountain to swing a sword.

 

[bat32391]

Realism gets tossed out the window the second I can shoot lightning out my damn hands. My real problem is I can't use a damn long sword on any character because the damn schematics for decent sword never spawns. Damn rng system.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Wait...what? This is an argument somewhere? That women can't use swords because they're too heavy? In Dragon Age? There are people out there who are actually upset about that? I can't even fathom that train of thought. I mean, have they seen the speed at which the archers fire their arrows? Or the way two-handed warriors swing their weapon around like it's paper? Or the fact that mages can spin their weapons again and again without pulling a muscle in, well, any part of their arm? The idea that a woman can't use a sword, any type of sword, is baffling to me, even more so in a fantasy game.

 

[murrow]

After saying all that, I feel I must point out that there is no evidence of any of these women taking part in frontline combat. They have weilded command authority but did not actually fight.

Not to mention how notoriously unreliable medieval chronicles were. Especially because "sticking to the facts" was lowest in the authors' list of priorities, if at all. You've got your share of made-up speeches, alegories, classical references and verbatim passages ripped-off from the scriptures. Taking anything in them on face value without external corroboration is beyond ludicrous. Which doesn't stop the author from quoting them as if they were yesterday's newspaper.

Funnily enough, some of these chronicles were also ripe with mentions of supernatural phenomena. One could make a similar exercise and conclude that wizardry existed in real life. And that kind of undermines the whole "dragon" argument.

 

[mjharper]

Exceptions to the norm do not define the norm, folks. While some women are capable of surpassing the average male it doesn't mean that it's going to happen approaching a 50/50 split that Thedas likes to give us.

It's not established that women are on par with men physically in Thedas, in fact the opposite is true, and the reason for female warriors being fewer than men in reality are still present in Thedas - and I'm not just talking the average physical build.

Offer more body type options, not the same damn model. Cassandra doesn't work because she's tiny, not because she's a woman. Just compare her to Iron Bull.

Right, compare her to a giant who towers over all humans and most other members of his own race. That makes for a good comparison. Also, accusing her of being 'tiny' is utterly irrelevant in a game with dwarves, plenty of whom wield bloody great warhammers.

 

[Bad Jim]

The fun part is that it's pretty common in a lot of older/lower budget games to have female characters/classes using bows, which are far more strength dependent. Medieval longbows had ridiculous draw weights and even men had to train for decades before they were strong enough to fire them properly. Skeletons of medieval archers have visibly deformed spines. This is because firing an arrow with great power and range requires great effort while drawing, and women, not being as strong, would have to use bows with less power and range or use crossbows and fire less often.

Logically it would be far more effective to have the women swinging swords while the men fire arrows than vice versa.

 

[Albino Boo]

After saying all that, I feel I must point out that there is no evidence of any of these women taking part in frontline combat. They have weilded command authority but did not actually fight.

Not to mention how notoriously unreliable medieval chronicles were. Especially because "sticking to the facts" was lowest in the authors' list of priorities, if at all. You've got your share of made-up speeches, alegories, classical references and verbatim passages ripped-off from the scriptures. Taking anything in them on face value without external corroboration is beyond ludicrous. Which doesn't stop the author from quoting them as if they were yesterday's newspaper.

Funnily enough, some of these chronicles were also ripe with mentions of supernatural phenomena. One could make a similar exercise and conclude that wizardry existed in real life. And that kind of undermines the whole "dragon" argument.

Well Caterina Sforza is well documented, she lived in the height of the Italian resonance and her last marriage was with a Medici. She is a only a few years older than Niccolo Machiavelli. Sikelgaita is well attested to in contemporary hostile Byzantine, Holy Roman Empire and Papal sources. The use of valkyrie originated in Holy Roman Empire sources because she was a Lombard princess and was of Germanic origin. Contemporary descriptions of her describe her as blond haired and blue eyed.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Exceptions to the norm do not define the norm, folks. While some women are capable of surpassing the average male it doesn't mean that it's going to happen approaching a 50/50 split that Thedas likes to give us.

It's not established that women are on par with men physically in Thedas, in fact the opposite is true, and the reason for female warriors being fewer than men in reality are still present in Thedas - and I'm not just talking the average physical build.

Offer more body type options, not the same damn model. Cassandra doesn't work because she's tiny, not because she's a woman. Just compare her to Iron Bull.

I don't think you read the article.

The whole point is that the difference in strength between men and women doesn't even factor in. Longswords are light enough and the difference is negligible enough that women being the "weaker sex" doesn't matter. You don't need to be a muscle mountain to swing a sword.

Being able to swing a sword is one thing. Having the strength to block an opponent's blows, drive a blade through someone's mail and having the stamina to stay in combat for a prolonged time are quite another. Using a sword in combat is quite different from swinging a laptop around. That comparison is hopelessly flawed. I will agree that the strength of the user isn't the only deciding factor in using a sword, but saying it makes no matter is nonsense.

And it has little to do with being a muscle mountain. Men on average just have more muscle mass and their muscle mass is more effective (Journal of Applied Physiology numbers state 40% and 33% more muscle mass in the upper and lower body respectively and between 5 and 10% more effective muscle tissue. Or if you don't believe that, watch sports). On average, mind you. There may have been a lot of Brienne of Tarths out there, but there's a reason female soldiers were rare throughout history. Some notable examples don't change that.

*disclaimer* I have no problem whatsoever with female combatants in any form of media and the very notion that people do is quite ludicrous. In fact, I usually play female characters in every game that gives the option.

 

[ForumSafari]

- Maybe it's only shown happening this slowly to make it clearer to the viewer what's going on, and "in-universe" it's only taking a couple seconds? I mean the first guy is still standing there with a hole in him at the end when they all drop, and it would be a lot less fun to see the cut-down version where the arrow flies too fast to keep track of.

I think that may be a point but it's fairly obvious that they're still moving at normal speed when you watch it. They should have shot him the second he started reaching for his coat regardless.

- Interestingly this was referenced in a comic elsewhere that literally went up today - compared to how screwed you'd be if they were using some OS you've never heard of, finding out it's an OS you're familiar with is pretty great, and you don't have to take the line to specifically mean "the fact that I know this OS means the problem is as good as solved".
- Wouldn't you want turning the vital systems on to be fail-safe if someone forgets the password, specifically to avoid having too many people be eaten by velociraptors?

I'll be honest here, a lot of my frustration with this is that it's my job. I can configure and deploy software that others can't even though they're passably familiar with UNIX systems. The other issue is that this software is custom written by Nedry so she's not going to have ever seen it before. It just doesn't make sense.

As for the second point, oh holy fucking shit no! For one thing being able to do this without a password on a UNIX system would probably also give the user the ability to turn the services off or even monkey with the service configuration. In general nixlike OS control services from /etc/init.d, a directory that contains scripts with entries for starting, stopping and reloading services. The problem with allowing any old numpty to access this directory is that you either place a file outside with credentials embedded for getting in to a high enough user context (dangerous because they can grab the password right back out) or allow the user access to /etc/init.d, thus taking them through /etc. On nixlikes /etc is the high level directory that holds almost all the config files for the entire OS and its' programs. That means they can then read the contents of the directory and thus get any service account passwords embedded in there. If they were running something like netgenie at the time that would then give them super user credentials for other servers and probably the one it was located on. The other danger is that even if you lock it down so that a user can only start a service you can also deliberately crash a computer by passing malformed commands to the service execution script. If you have a multi purpose user with the ability to turn things on and off they can either crash the system using some kind of malformed code like a fork bomb or they can toggle the service on and off fast enough to cause physical damage. What you ideally really want to do is tell the computer to power the fence back on unless it finds a file or a variable that deliberately inhibits it coming back on. That way the fences default to on unless they're turned off and locked open and the user isn't involved at all.

For another thing the password is there to stop well meaning users who shouldn't be able to turn it back on from having the ability to do so, for instance in the case of the fences you want to have very tight control over who can turn them back on for the purpose of safe maintenance. Muldoon empties the Rex paddock while they fix storm damage, someone sees the fence off, panics, doesn't have access to the work logs because security and toggles the fence back on.

Thirdly Nedry is shown as part of the initial setup crew. If you forgot your password when the park was operational there would almost certainly be another admin on site to reset your password. It's also worth noting that Jurassic Park is basically Project Management Fuck-ups: The Movie

Fourthly funnily enough the raptor fence is the only fence on a separate circuit so it wasn't turned off until the computer was manually power cycled, a user shouldn't be able to toggle the state of any fence but that one especially should default to on at all times and need specifically overriding.

 

[CommanderZx2]

I've never heard anyone make the claim that women cannot use longswords. However I find it amusing that you could easily, with very few edits, reuse the first page of that article as defence for sexy female armours.

 

[blackrave]

Oh, but everyone is fine with women using katanas. The fucking katana weighs the same as the goddamned longsword! And longswords are usually better balanced.

Has more to do with how the weapons are used. Katanas are about slicing, using the blade's edge instead of the force behind the swing. Traditional European weapons are more about brute force, generally speaking.

Um, wut?
If by "Traditional European weapons" you mean warhammers and maces than yes.
But if you talk about swords then no, just no.
Bashing did occur, but WITH A HANDLE not blade.
When it came to blade stabbing and slashing was ordinary methods.
And there is nothing "brute" in proper European sword techniques.
"Brute force" is only a thing in movies and games, since most people have no idea how swords work, that's why sword "technique" is bashing enemy with a sword as if it's a mace.
"Brutes" on actual battlefields were mostly armed with spears, blunt weapons or axes.