Yet another girl issues thread

[SuperFrankieLampard]

Yes its another one of these and may include some rambling. It's probably best if I start from the beginning...

So summer of 2012 ends and I start at university. I get put in a flat with 8 people I've never met before, making 5 girls and 4 guys including me. The year ends and I'm very good friends with all of them, with 1 or 2 standing out but no feelings beyond friendship with any of them.

Second year starts this summer and over the course of the term, one of the girls who I've always gotten along really well with, we fairly quickly become really really close and I begin to develop feelings for her and eventually ask her out. She says no as she isn't looking for anything as she's doing a year abroad next year and fair enough, I can accept that. Still, we get closer and closer and eventually sleep together. So now we're friends with benefits which is ok.

However then I find out about her ex. Back when she was 16 and he was 19, they were together but broke up because he cheated on her. She's now 19 and has had a whole host of failed relationships since then (most of the failures weren't her fault)and is now madly in love with him again as apparently he's changed (and is one of her best friends brother). Thing is though, he's going away with the navy at the end of this month and she's going to study abroad for a year in the coming September so nothing can happen long term yet I know their spending nearly every day together atm.

Now because he's already cheated on her before, I've made it very clear that I really really dislike him for that yet every time he comes up she gets mad at me over it and I know that nothing I say will convince here. I've spent the entire holiday falling apart over the fact that she would rather have someone who cheated over her over me, until last night I realised that if thats how she thinks then I can do better than her.

And yet I can't stop thinking about her and know that as I soon as I see her again in a few weeks I am going to fall again for her. And she'll be depressed over him going away for 18 months or however long hes gone for and want to talk about it and I don't know what to do. How do I tell her that 'I think the love of your life is an absolute w****r despite having never met him and want you to be with me despite the fact I don't want to be with you although I actually do'? Sorry if it dosen't make sense in places but any advice would be very appreciated.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

You asked her out, and she turned you down. What she chooses to do isn't really any of your business, since you are pretty much just a dildo for her to use. Friends with Benefits is almost always a bad idea for this very reason: one person starts to get too attached and sees the relationship as something more. I would recommend stopping the sex if you cannot keep your emotions in check. It's her choice who she loves or doesn't love, and even if you're right and he is bad for her, no amount of you trying to tell her is going to make a difference. It is only going to make things worse for you.

 

[Jux]

...until last night I realised that if thats how she thinks then I can do better than her.

That is a good realization.

And yet I can't stop thinking about her and know that as I soon as I see her again in a few weeks I am going to fall again for her.

It's hard to rationalize with the heart. What you can do, what has worked for me in the past, is getting involved with someone else. This may not be an option for you, but moving on to another relationship is a good way to make sure feelings stay severed.

And she'll be depressed over him going away for 18 months or however long hes gone for and want to talk about it and I don't know what to do.

You have options. You could refuse to talk about the issue. This may not seem like the 'good friend' thing to do, but you need to remember something. This subject is emotionally distressing for you. If she can't accept that and respect that boundary, you need to force the boundary (or stop being friends with her, which is another option). A true friend is not going to put you in that position. Ideally, you'll be able to get over her and be a good friend for her. Getting to that point for me took a while and a few failed friendships to get to though.

How do I tell her that 'I think the love of your life is an absolute w****r despite having never met him and want you to be with me despite the fact I don't want to be with you although I actually do'? Sorry if it dosen't make sense in places but any advice would be very appreciated.

Well it sounds like you told her exactly that already. And she hasn't responded positively. You can't make someone feel a certain way. And from the way you write I think you already know it. I would suggest backing off. Pushing her is only going to entrench her in that position. If she does come around though, I think you need to sit down and have a talk with her before moving forward with that relationship. It kind of sounds like she'll flake out on you again when the guy gets back. You don't want to set yourself up for that kind of fall.

 

[Blitsie]

In all honesty, just quickly sit back, think OBJECTIVELY about this girl for a moment and ask yourself, is she really worth it?. I'm also going to be pretty harsh now for the next few minutes so deepest apologies if I offend you, but this is coming from personal experience and things you said in your post:

-She slept with you yet she doesn't see you as a boyfriend.

-She's stupid enough to madly fall in love with someone who hurt her in the past.

-She certainly left you in a bad emotional state as one can see from your post (and I bet she doesn't really care that much about it)

-She's leaving the country, which means that even if you guys got together somehow, the relationship is going to bomb after the third overseas skype call or so when she finally admits she's busy enjoying the local sausage there.

-And lastly, she tells you she doesn't want anything at the moment yet it sure sounds like she's getting things on nicely with Mr.Navy. She's basically sparing your feelings by indirectly rejecting you and she's not going to change her mind any time soon.

The point I'm trying to make here is that, dude, why do you want to be in a relationship with a person that's only currently hurting you? I've gone through this myself a few times and trust me, that feeling of falling apart doesn't go away until you finally kill your feelings for her, and it will never get better. Now I'm not saying end the friendship (unless you want to) but either quickly find someone else or start doing whatever the hell you can to remove those feelings (personally for me, repeatedly looking at only the bad parts of the girl helped me get over her, harsh but it worked).

TL;DR: Objectively: Put emotions aside for a moment, think objectively about your past experiences with this girl and ask yourself if she's actually worth pursuing.

Personally: She's not worth it, kill your feelings for her, move on, keeping up with this will only lead to even worse pain.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Trust me dude, she isn't worth it. Yes, she's making a mistake. That dude cheated on her, betrayed her trust, went away... but it's her life and they're her mistakes to make. Again, she's not worth your feelings. Let her do as she pleases and carry on your way.

 

[nyankaty]

Blitsie said it all best. I say this as a woman who has (ashamed to admit) played those little back-and-forth in-love-not-in-love games before. You asked her out once, she said no. End of story. If she wanted something with you, she would come to you because she knows how you feel, and she hasn't so you need to just put that out of your mind. You may have this elaborate love story spun in your head of how you think it could and should work out, but the reality is that she does not know what she wants right now and there's a very good possibility she would use you for whatever you're worth, whether it's sexual or emotional or whatever, and then she'd flutter off.

You need to just put any potential things you could see happening aside because the reality is that she said no and she does not want you right now. Leave her to her own devices and hopefully one day she will know what she wants. If that happens to one day be you and you're still available and want her, then awesome! But it's more likely that she'll find someone else and you'll be left bitter and unhappy if you wait for her to change.

Just watch out for yourself, okay? I know firsthand, both as the heartbreaker and the heartbroken, how crappy these situations can and usually do turn out. Protect yourself.

 

[CloudAtlas]

OP, from what you're saying here, it seems like, deep down, you already made your decision, you just haven't come to terms with it yet. It won't be easy, it will take time, but you said it yourself: You deserve better.

For the second part of your problem: You think that going back to her ex is a terrible idea and will only end in tears. You already told her you think this way, repeatedly, but if that didn't change her mind, I'm afraid that's really all you can do about it. It can be very painful to see someone you care about make bad decisions, I know it can, but if someone is set on it, there's not much more you can do about it, as much as it sucks.

Now given the situation you find yourself in, that might not be your first priority, and perhaps it shouldn't, as what people tend to need the most in such a situation is distance, but if you do want to (and are able to) stay friends with her, you have to accept her decision. You do not need to support it, but you have to find it in your heart to accept it, or at least to tolerate it, in some way.
But you cannot tell her over and over again that you think it is a bad idea. That will only breed resentment. However, she also has to accept that you don't want to talk with her about her boyfriend. She knows you have feelings for her (I presume), yet wants to talk about him to you anyway - no, she has no right to that if you don't want it.

 

[The Night Angel]

Pretty much all been said... move on, find someone new, accept her decision without supporting it, then decide whether you want to be there for her as a friend or not. I would suggest not putting the effort into the friendship for a while, see how much she notices, and if she doesn't seem to mind you guys drifting apart and doesn't make the effort, then you probably shouldn't bother either.
After my girlfriend dumped me in one of the worst way possible (barring cheating on me, which my first girlfriend did, years ago now) back in August, I tried to be her friend because she guilt tripped me into it... but then she never made the effort, even though it should have been on her, not me, to make the effort to keep us friends, so i finally got fed up of trying to save our friendship, and just stopped talking to her.

 

[Maximus4444]

Everyone who replied to this is right on target, BULLS EYE! Just sit back relax, take it easy and pop in some movie Just Friends and Crazy, Stupid, Love. All time best, must watch Californication. Then you will realize she ain't worth it. Plenty of fish in the sea! Buffet, really. You are way more valuable than what she has to offer.

 

[Baron Teapot]

Ask someone else out. I think you should just try to immerse yourself in something else; try and meet other women who'd make good romantic partners, 'cause you deserve more than just sex every now and then. It's fun when it starts, but you're essentially being used for your penis.

This girl may have a number of issues, as you mentioned she's gone through numerous partners and they've often ended in tears. Whether or not it's her fault, it's likely left some emotional damage. Perhaps she just doesn't want to risk committing to you, and who can blame her?

When the relationship with the navy-guy goes south, don't gloat. Just be there for her if need be, but you need to tell her that you're no longer going to sleep with her. It's horrible to love someone who doesn't love you. While you think you want to be with her right now, you know it's just not right, and there will be plenty of other girls to date. Enjoy yourself.

You'll find love again. It will take time. But part of the inevitable cycle of relationships is the sadness and ennui after a break-up. So, even though you'll likely feel very sad, don't forget that it's only temporary. Also, definitely don't call her in tears, begging for her to leave the other guy and come back to you, because not only does that not work, it will make you look like a right wally.

 

[MeTalHeD]

In all honesty, just quickly sit back, think OBJECTIVELY about this girl for a moment and ask yourself, is she really worth it?. I'm also going to be pretty harsh now for the next few minutes so deepest apologies if I offend you, but this is coming from personal experience and things you said in your post:

-She slept with you yet she doesn't see you as a boyfriend.

-She's stupid enough to madly fall in love with someone who hurt her in the past.

-She certainly left you in a bad emotional state as one can see from your post (and I bet she doesn't really care that much about it)

-She's leaving the country, which means that even if you guys got together somehow, the relationship is going to bomb after the third overseas skype call or so when she finally admits she's busy enjoying the local sausage there.

-And lastly, she tells you she doesn't want anything at the moment yet it sure sounds like she's getting things on nicely with Mr.Navy. She's basically sparing your feelings by indirectly rejecting you and she's not going to change her mind any time soon.

The point I'm trying to make here is that, dude, why do you want to be in a relationship with a person that's only currently hurting you? I've gone through this myself a few times and trust me, that feeling of falling apart doesn't go away until you finally kill your feelings for her, and it will never get better. Now I'm not saying end the friendship (unless you want to) but either quickly find someone else or start doing whatever the hell you can to remove those feelings (personally for me, repeatedly looking at only the bad parts of the girl helped me get over her, harsh but it worked).

TL;DR: Objectively: Put emotions aside for a moment, think objectively about your past experiences with this girl and ask yourself if she's actually worth pursuing.

Personally: She's not worth it, kill your feelings for her, move on, keeping up with this will only lead to even worse pain.

Blitsie, you're a genius. I think what Blitsie is also trying to say is you're doing the same thing she is doing. She wants someone who hurt her and here you are wanting someone who hurts you. If you can't see the irony in this, then you will continue to get yourself hurt. You cannot want her while she is hurting you then judge her for wanting someone who hurt her.

Also, there will be other women. I know in the moment you're thinking "Love of my life...maybe when she returns." Oh no you don't. Pull yourself together. She will eventually leave. You have other priorities in your life and, honestly, there are other women out there who will appreciate you. It took me a while to find someone decent after having my heart crushed a few times, but you learn to respect and love yourself enough not to fall for nonsense.

It's a harsh lesson, but next time you'll know not to fall for that again. It's always sad when the ones you think are perfect for you are anything but. It really just means you need to refocus something about yourself, such as maybe not settling for half of what you want. Next time if a woman doesn't give you what you desire in a relationship, don't bother with her. This girl sounds like she's getting the best out of this deal and you're getting screwed. The others here are right. Date someone else. Or as I like to see it, place your penis inside someone who values you for more than your ability to place your penis in them.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

She sounds like an alpha widow; her attraction to that first "bad boy" was so intense as to ruin her for most other men - especially more beta guys like yourself.

You literally cannot alter her perception of Navy Man because it is not a conscious perception on her part. It's her lizard brain, her implicit mind, generating those feelings, and that part of the brain simply doesn't respond to reason.

You will also never compete with her perception of Navy Man unless you completely alter the frame of your relationship with her. Right now, she views you as essentially a girlfriend mixed with a surrogate boyfriend, someone who offers emotional support and (probably) a lot of the trappings of a boyfriend without the commitment or sexual intimacy. She will (very selfishly) use you for sexual intimacy if (and only if) she can't get it elsewhere, and she will drop you like a rock the moment she does find a suitably alpha replacement for Navy Man.

How do you change the frame of your relationship? Start by upping your own market value; hit the gym, hit the books, set (and achieve) some personal goals. Step two: attract yourself some other other girls. Plural. Don't fixate on one girl. Leave your options open, date around, even if you have to force yourself. Just do it. If any of them try to pull the same act, move on right away. You don't have to be a jerk about it, but you don't have to suffer in silence either. Step three: distance yourself from the first girl. The next time she tries to lean on you, don't be there. Not your job. If she throws a fit, don't reward her bad behavior. Think about your own frustration. Use that to strengthen your resolve.

She might replace you with some other sucker, but are you really going to be jealous of that chump? She might hook up with Navy Man, or someone equally alpha, but there's literally nothing you can do to stop that. She might temporarily become more affectionate or intimate in an effort to lure you back into her web. Don't fall for that. Your only hope of attracting this girl for the long haul is to: 1) effectively reset your relationship with time and distance, 2) demonstrate your own market value by securing the interest of competing women, and 3) (most importantly) maintain your new frame and relative power should any new relationship form. In effect, be that next alpha.

If, however, you're not up for all that? Take the easy road and cut her out of your life completely. Just make sure you fucking learn from the experience because that kind of thing can and will happen to you for the rest of your life if you're not protecting yourself from it. You have to vigilantly defend yourself from selfish, shitty people.