Silvanus said:
Joccaren said:
Please define what modernisation would entail in this case then, because everything about the 90s platformers Jim seems to hate, and it needs to all change - art style, mechanics, core gameplay - in order to 'modernise' and become an acceptable game. Unless Jim's criticism isn't modernisation, but simply not liking the genre - as he himself has stated in the review.
Uhrm... Jim did not complain about the art style or the core gameplay. The issues he described were poor camera control (which is something I would agree with), oversensitivity of controls, and level design.
Read the review again.
He complained about the voice acting and design choices there, artistic style choices. He complained about the simplistic combat, the puzzles, the minecart rides, transformations... There isn't a thing he doesn't complain about.
Hell, he even directly states "Dated mechanics".
If it were just camera and controls, yeah, sure. It isn't. Every last detail he complains about, including the core gameplay of the genre.
You believe you understand his metric better than him? There is no objective comparison to be made between those two games, or how he experienced them, so you cannot possibly say that he complained about something vaguely similar in a completely different game, so he should dock points evenly. Perhaps he felt one was more adversely affected than the other. It's subjective. It's based entirely on personal experience.
I have read his metrics, and what he has said he rates based on. How he has rated YL does not actually match what he describes for his ratings of '2'.
Additionally, this is why we have somewhat objective REASONS for our decisions. Simply subjective stuff is entirely useless, as again, we have no idea why Jim rates anything any way for any reason, thus no information can be gained from his reviews. If there is some objective level to what he is saying - there is some actual reason for his feelings beyond "Oh, I just feel bad" - then we can apply that REASON to other games. Its not just about the same mechanics being used in different games, its about the reasons why that mechanic doesn't work. If those same reasons apply to different games - then they should still dock points for the same reasons. If you have no consistent reasons, you simply don't understand what you're reviewing well enough, and you're not giving any information to those you're reviewing to unless they have exactly the same tastes as you - which just doesn't happen.
I also don't say you should dock points evenly, simply that points should still be docked. Depending on the extent of implementation depends on the 'evenly' part, as implementation can be different. Simply that criticisms that apply to one game, also apply to other games.
No, he didn't. Read it again. He simply did not complain about the very core gameplay of 3D platformers.
Hmm, let me see...
"With its dated mechanics..."
"Combat is brainless, consisting of tapping a single button while enemies walk thoughtlessly into your attacks"
"Additionally, the game is drowning in Quillies, or Quills, or whatever. They?re more contrived bits of magical bullshit you pick up..." - among other similar complaints about the idea of collecting things.
"Some of these moves are crucial to acquiring new Pagies, although the game doesn?t always tell you what moves are needed and when." - oh gee, solving puzzles, how terrible.
"This is to say nothing of the awful minigames, none of which feel particularly optional since they all award Pagies"
With bonus points for: "There are several ?retro? arcade games that couldn?t even be bothered to use new character models to make anything look retro and take the form of piss-poor racing games or shooters. I don?t know why creating games that actually looked and felt like retro games was too big an ask for Playtonic, but it?s jarring (and creatively barren) to feature a bunch of ?arcade? games that look just like the regular game." - artistic design complaints.
"Don?t get me started on the minecart rides, which feel almost arbitrary in how poorly placed the enemies and traps are, or the transformations in which Yooka and Laylee combine to form an animal or vehicle that?s even more of a pain in the ass to maneuver than they are." - and, having played these sections, I can easily say Jim is just bad at the game, there is not any level design issues here.
"Sometimes the game can?t even be bothered to be a game and instead forces a memory quiz on the player, demanding they answer nonsense questions about the things they?ve picked up and characters they?ve met."
This is without going into more paragraphs complaining about artistic design choices and etc.
So, again, please tell me how he only complains about the camera and controls, not the gameplay. Please.
Or maybe re-read the review yourself. He complains about quite literally everything to do with the game except the music. In fact, here's another delightful quote;
"About the only truly competent work on display is the music, which at least does a great job of balancing nostalgia with quality"
Neither is the "objective fact". Both are value judgements. In the first statement, the use of "many", "tricky", and "terrible" are inherently subjective. In the second statement, the use of "many" is also a personal call.
Neither use "objective language". I can only really conclude that you don't properly understand how that facet of language works.
Then quite literally everything anyone has ever said in the history of everything is a value judgement and entirely subjective. A stove top isn't hot, that's a purely subjective statement. The sun isn't bright, that's just subjective. If something says; "Warning, hot" that's not an adequate warning of danger, because that's a purely subjective statement, and it needs to say explicitly "Warning; 400 Celsius" in order to do so.
Get real. The first, yes, is a value judgement. The second is an objective statement seeing as we are using a concept of relativity in it - there is not many collectibles in comparison to the total number.
If we're talking objective language:
"The game IS so terrible at visual communication", or even "Many of the puzzles are tricky not because they?ve been designed to be," when you understand that "Many" literally just means more than one, and is not a subjective statement seeing as he is not saying that the majority are, simply that more than one or two - it also explicitly states that the issue is a design issue, not an issue with him, the player, struggling to understand what to do. "Are tricky" is also shorthand for "Derives their difficulty from" - again, an objective statement.
The second one is also quite obvious, when we again note that "Not many" isn't a subjective "Oh, its only 3 or 4", but is a relative term indicating that compared to all 125 pagies, a relatively low number are required for each unlock. This not need be exactly measured to be objective, 10 compared to 125 is relatively "Not many".
Outside this, I also believe that "Not many required to unlock" is even intended to be an entirely objective statement, while the one beforehand is... Less clear. I can't tell whether Jim intends to say that objectively the game is bad at visual communication, or whether he himself failed to read the game's visual communication. Again, use of one or two different words can make this a lot clearer.
You pretend that there is only one way to read a certain word or phrase, while there is not. Hence my statement that differentiating them clearly is a better way of writing the review than treating all statements as the same.
CaitSeith said:
So, are you ready to get your hands dirty and deconstruct reviews? Or you want to pull out more theoretical examples? Because not even Jim states ludonarrative dissonance like that.
I'm not entirely clear on what you're saying here.
Yeah, sure, I'm happy to go through some reviews, my entire point is that Jim doesn't say anything that could give readers extra information like that though. I know Jim doesn't state ludonarrative dissonance, I'm saying that he should use similar phrases that give extra information as to the reasons why he felt something, rather than just saying he did or didn't. I feel like you're missing that, or think I'm saying something else entirely...
Phoenixmgs said:
My fault, I did read your post a bit too fast. I don't think I've ever found gameplay that relies heavily on a lock-on mechanic to ever be very compelling. Sure, it's fine for an option on an easy difficulty for those that just wanna play through the game.
Fair enough, though I will say generally the mechanic is used to best effect when you're not meant to focus on aiming in the game, but on other mechanics - like in Zelda, where mobility is more important than aiming, and reacting to enemy attack patterns and using the right equipment yourself, more like an MMO. This reduction on the focus of aiming in the battle means that more focus can be placed on the other aspects of it. When aiming itself is a key component of the challenge in an action - such as aiming at a target, or switch, or some boss's weak points - then lock on will not be available, or if it is it won't guarantee you a hit.