You Can't Play The Witcher 2 On a Non-NTFS HDD

[onilinksword]

Why would anyone format a system HHD to FAT32? The only thing I have in FAT32 format are small thumb drives, so they can transfer data between PCs and Macs. A 4 GB file isn't that big in today's standards. If a game takes up 16 GB of space, you may think that some of the files might be bigger than 4 GB.

This sounds more like technological incompetence rather than a developer problem.

A single 4GB file is still quite big, unless you're talking about either ISO's or videos of a very high quality.

Folders above 4GB are a very different story, however.

I deal with MANY files that are larger than 4 GB. Weather it be a HD movie, archived folder, disk image, game assets, etc. The point is that -in today's standards- with 1 TB HHDs being sold for less than $100 U.S., 4 GB isn't that large. It may be large to you, but the technology doesn't agree.

It is quite large to me. I do have a few files over 4GB, but those are mostly disk images. You mentioned disk images and HD videos, both of which I had mentioned and dealt with in my post. As for archived folders - well, I didn't think about that but yes, it's easy to see how they could be that big. Files generally aren't that big even after HD video, disk images, and archived folders have been considered.

Also, the presence of massive HDD's does not mean that massive files will always be present. What files do you use so often that are larger than 4GB?

Still, no person using solely Windows should need anything other than NTFS. Possibly someone with Linux and Windows or Mac and Windows, but even then there are ways to read an NTFS partition.

I think I need to explain my position a bit more. I am a 3D animator. I make many files that are quite large. A few seconds of HD footage and renders uncompressed is quite large for the length. A 10 second clip is about 2 GB, and that's not covering what goes into it. If I am doing water or fire simulation in that clip, then it could easily be another 10+ GB for that time period (depending on the quality of the sim). To me, 4 GB isn't that big.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

I have no idea how you managed to build your own computer without knowing that.

Because building a computer requires little more than the "Fit the square peg into the square hole" kind of thing that even babies can do. I operate on a self-built PC as well, and you'd probably be amazed at some of the things I don't know about hardware/software that elitists like to pretend you "need" to know in order to have any business building a computer.

 

[Aardvark Soup]

This is quite a bad thing, actually. A lot of people will probably end up being unable to play the game, without knowing what the problem. And even if they do they will need to go through the trouble of reformatting their hard drive or adding a partition first.

Why the hell would they even need a single 9 GB file? And why don't they just split it up in three parts? In my opinion: this is nothing more than a bug that can easily be fixed.

almost no one uses fat 32 anymore, Im surprised that anyone even had this problem, fat32 is just worse then ntfs and chances are if your still using fat32 your not running an os that can run the game since win 2000 and up all defaulted to ntfs

Okay, perhaps this isn't as problematic as I thought and I once again underestimate contemporary hardware.

Still, my desktop PC is running Windows XP and originally came a FAT32-formatted hard drive. Okay, it is five years old by now and it probably won't be able to run games like this. But still, there is probably still a minority for which this will cause issues. Since there is no reason whatsoever to require a 9GB file and this can simply be fixed by splitting the file up in three parts and adding about three lines of code to their game engine I'd still call this an oversight that should be patched.

As a developer, let me assure you that just because you don't see a reason for large, contiguous files doesn't mean that good reasons don't exist. The easiest to explain is, as I said above, HDD read/write times. With desktop computers often shipping with 4GB (or even more) memory these days, it makes sense to keep all that data together. Windows internal defragmenting algorithms only try to lump files together. Directories are not considered. So, the best way to minimize the amount of searching is with big-ass file sizes. It's not a huge optimization, but when you're trying to squeeze every bit of speed out of the game, it counts. (Of course, SSDs render this moot; too bad they're still so expensive.)

Good point, I hadn't considered this yet. However, I doubt they can't simply split this 9GB file up in three 3GB pieces. Having hundreds of tiny files can be very inefficient on Windows, but the costs of only two big ones more is insignificant.

 

[Vrach]

Yeah... except you're not screwed over. The game does work. It does work on your computer. All you need to do for it to work is format one partition so that it has the NTFS file system. You don't have to wait for a fix. You don't have to buy anything new. You don't need to pay for a technician to do anything for you. You just have to grab a partition with some space on it, split it in two and make one of the two new partitions use the NTFS file system. There's plenty of guides on how to do it on the internet if you've never done it before and even a child can follow those directions, it's not even remotely complicated.

And there's not a single reason why a person owning a computer capable of playing this game in the year 2011, should not have a single drive with space on it that's formatted as NTFS.

Okay, ya didn't read my post, I was referring to black ops claiming to support dual core processors, and for the first 6 months that wasn't the case and I had a 60 dollar drink coaster. And yes, I was screwed over for 6 months waiting for them to patch the game that said, on the box, was compatible with my pc, because it wasn't.

I'm SIMPLY STATING that companies should put these things on the box, despite how simple the thing is should be posted it to give the customer more info. I fix computers for people who do not know anything about them, and get most of their info off the box and not this weird thing called the internet, there's a lot of things I wish were printed on boxes such as DRM and things like steam is required to be installed because it does confuse people despite what you think and I get questions on this crap constantly.

I've already been asked if the Witcher will run on my friends computer because he doesn't know what a "FAT requires"

I read your post just fine. You were still saying Witcher 2 screwed people over. You're still saying it by implying it's a normal thing for your friends to ask whether Witcher is playable due to their file system, when the issue is not playability, but simply whether they'll have to change their file system to play it, again, something that's done easily and without any cost to the user.

 

[draythefingerless]

As a developer, let me assure you that just because you don't see a reason for large, contiguous files doesn't mean that good reasons don't exist. The easiest to explain is, as I said above, HDD read/write times. With desktop computers often shipping with 4GB (or even more) memory these days, it makes sense to keep all that data together.

Sure it makes sense to keep files together, but it also makes sense to keep the sizes reasonable, i.e. < 4 GB. A big file rarely is a huge chunk of homogenous data (like megatexture), it's usually just an archive with tons of files inside. For example, patching or repairing/redownloading such a file is a *****. But whatever; not that big of a deal.

This is not an oversight. By stating that the OS needs to be XP, Vista, or Win7, they are implicitly stating that an NTFS file system is necessary!

Definitely not right. First, at least XP can easily run off a FAT32 drive and I bet Vista or 7 can be made to run off them too.

Second, even if the system drive is NTFS, you can still have additional drives for other data. Despite Windows having the retarded system of everything having on the C: drive (C:\Windows, C:\Program Files, C:\Documents and Settings, C:\whatever), it's always best to keep system separate from the data. Everyone buying a computer should be looking for at least two drives. Then, no real reason to have more than one NTFS. At least you spare youself the hassle of disabling NTFS indexation and other shit that keeps slowing Windows down to a quarter of their speed.

I've got 4 HDDs with around 10 partitions and only some of those are NTFS. The gaming partiton is NTFS, but if I didn't have enough space there, I'd just put the game somewhere else.

So apparently people STILL use FAT32 on their other drives for whatever reason - so it's pretty clear it actually IS an issue, even though just for a few users.

This is a game, games have big files. NTFS is pretty standard now, and not unreadable in other OS. furthermore, you need to take into account that this is a problem to people who use FAT32, wich implies in this day n age that they know what FAT32 is or that they should not be playing high end games in crappy old stuff, so it goes moot. FAT32 has its uses with multiple OS and the various platforms who use it, but this game is for PCs, and its a high end game. You wont find it on other platforms, and if you are smart enough to have 10 partitions in 4 HDDs(i bet you love handling with those problems when you fill one up, or maybe youre a server) then youre smart enough to know about this. Doesnt matter if FAT32 has its uses, it shouldnt be an issue regarding THIS game.

 

[Worgen]

This is quite a bad thing, actually. A lot of people will probably end up being unable to play the game, without knowing what the problem. And even if they do they will need to go through the trouble of reformatting their hard drive or adding a partition first.

Why the hell would they even need a single 9 GB file? And why don't they just split it up in three parts? In my opinion: this is nothing more than a bug that can easily be fixed.

almost no one uses fat 32 anymore, Im surprised that anyone even had this problem, fat32 is just worse then ntfs and chances are if your still using fat32 your not running an os that can run the game since win 2000 and up all defaulted to ntfs

Okay, perhaps this isn't as problematic as I thought and I once again underestimate contemporary hardware.

Still, my desktop PC is running Windows XP and originally came a FAT32-formatted hard drive. Okay, it is five years old by now and it probably won't be able to run games like this. But still, there is probably still a minority for which this will cause issues. Since there is no reason whatsoever to require a 9GB file and this can simply be fixed by splitting the file up in three parts and adding about three lines of code to their game engine I'd still call this an oversight that should be patched.

its rather odd to have gotten a pc in the last 10 years that had a fat32 hdd on it, I mean as I said before its just worst then ntfs, its much less secure and it gets fragmented much faster, also you can convert a fat32 to ntfs without reformatting, there is just no reason for you to use fat32 on a windows system unless its for a usb drive or something

 

[fierydemise]

Okay, perhaps this isn't as problematic as I thought and I once again underestimate contemporary hardware.

Still, my desktop PC is running Windows XP and originally came a FAT32-formatted hard drive. Okay, it is five years old by now and it probably won't be able to run games like this. But still, there is probably still a minority for which this will cause issues. Since there is no reason whatsoever to require a 9GB file and this can simply be fixed by splitting the file up in three parts and adding about three lines of code to their game engine I'd still call this an oversight that should be patched.

Actually its an easy fix for people who for whatever reason have FAT32 formatted drives.

If you google xp fat32 ntfs the first result that comes up is How to convert a FAT16 volume or a FAT32 volume to an NTFS file system in Windows XP [http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307881].

 

[Snotnarok]

Yeah... except you're not screwed over. The game does work. It does work on your computer. All you need to do for it to work is format one partition so that it has the NTFS file system. You don't have to wait for a fix. You don't have to buy anything new. You don't need to pay for a technician to do anything for you. You just have to grab a partition with some space on it, split it in two and make one of the two new partitions use the NTFS file system. There's plenty of guides on how to do it on the internet if you've never done it before and even a child can follow those directions, it's not even remotely complicated.

And there's not a single reason why a person owning a computer capable of playing this game in the year 2011, should not have a single drive with space on it that's formatted as NTFS.

Okay, ya didn't read my post, I was referring to black ops claiming to support dual core processors, and for the first 6 months that wasn't the case and I had a 60 dollar drink coaster. And yes, I was screwed over for 6 months waiting for them to patch the game that said, on the box, was compatible with my pc, because it wasn't.

I'm SIMPLY STATING that companies should put these things on the box, despite how simple the thing is should be posted it to give the customer more info. I fix computers for people who do not know anything about them, and get most of their info off the box and not this weird thing called the internet, there's a lot of things I wish were printed on boxes such as DRM and things like steam is required to be installed because it does confuse people despite what you think and I get questions on this crap constantly.

I've already been asked if the Witcher will run on my friends computer because he doesn't know what a "FAT requires"

I read your post just fine. You were still saying Witcher 2 screwed people over. You're still saying it by implying it's a normal thing for your friends to ask whether Witcher is playable due to their file system, when the issue is not playability, but simply whether they'll have to change their file system to play it, again, something that's done easily and without any cost to the user.

I'd like people to stop bloody quoting me on this, my point was that I wanted companies to have better system requirements listed is all. And while you think that's easy to do, go ask the average person and see if they even know what formatting is.

It doesn't matter I already agreed with someone it's best not to list it because seeing that info would probably send them into a panic of confusion.

 

[Vrach]

Yeah... except you're not screwed over. The game does work. It does work on your computer. All you need to do for it to work is format one partition so that it has the NTFS file system. You don't have to wait for a fix. You don't have to buy anything new. You don't need to pay for a technician to do anything for you. You just have to grab a partition with some space on it, split it in two and make one of the two new partitions use the NTFS file system. There's plenty of guides on how to do it on the internet if you've never done it before and even a child can follow those directions, it's not even remotely complicated.

And there's not a single reason why a person owning a computer capable of playing this game in the year 2011, should not have a single drive with space on it that's formatted as NTFS.

Okay, ya didn't read my post, I was referring to black ops claiming to support dual core processors, and for the first 6 months that wasn't the case and I had a 60 dollar drink coaster. And yes, I was screwed over for 6 months waiting for them to patch the game that said, on the box, was compatible with my pc, because it wasn't.

I'm SIMPLY STATING that companies should put these things on the box, despite how simple the thing is should be posted it to give the customer more info. I fix computers for people who do not know anything about them, and get most of their info off the box and not this weird thing called the internet, there's a lot of things I wish were printed on boxes such as DRM and things like steam is required to be installed because it does confuse people despite what you think and I get questions on this crap constantly.

I've already been asked if the Witcher will run on my friends computer because he doesn't know what a "FAT requires"

I read your post just fine. You were still saying Witcher 2 screwed people over. You're still saying it by implying it's a normal thing for your friends to ask whether Witcher is playable due to their file system, when the issue is not playability, but simply whether they'll have to change their file system to play it, again, something that's done easily and without any cost to the user.

I'd like people to stop bloody quoting me on this, my point was that I wanted companies to have better system requirements listed is all. And while you think that's easy to do, go ask the average person and see if they even know what formatting is.

It doesn't matter I already agreed with someone it's best not to list it because seeing that info would probably send them into a panic of confusion.

Aye, was thinking that too. Listing it as a requirement would make people think two things:
1) What the fuck is a file system?!
2) Oh shit, I have FAT32, well I guess I can't play this without upgrading my PC /ignoregame

And I honestly don't know that many average people who would play something like Witcher 2. Playing a game this new requires a relatively new system and most people owning one are at least knowledgeable enough to have heard about FAT32/NTFS and know to check the internet about it or have someone among their friends/family who could explain/sort out the issue for them.

Even if they're not, they can always go to the technical support forums to ask why they can't install the game and get that explained by the people over there. I don't see it any different than the game requiring certain drivers really, I know plenty of people who game, who don't know how to update their graphics drivers, get a dual core optimizer etc. and we've seen a far greater number of issues with those in the past without calling for box notes on it. Hell, I was just at my brother's place a few weeks back installing the newest drivers for his gfx card cause he had the ones that were out of the box (and it's a bit of an older card as well) and wondering why his games are being weird.

 

[solidstatemind]

As a developer, let me assure you that just because you don't see a reason for large, contiguous files doesn't mean that good reasons don't exist. The easiest to explain is, as I said above, HDD read/write times. With desktop computers often shipping with 4GB (or even more) memory these days, it makes sense to keep all that data together.

Sure it makes sense to keep files together, but it also makes sense to keep the sizes reasonable, i.e. < 4 GB. A big file rarely is a huge chunk of homogenous data (like megatexture), it's usually just an archive with tons of files inside. For example, patching or repairing/redownloading such a file is a *****. But whatever; not that big of a deal.

This is not an oversight. By stating that the OS needs to be XP, Vista, or Win7, they are implicitly stating that an NTFS file system is necessary!

Definitely not right. First, at least XP can easily run off a FAT32 drive and I bet Vista or 7 can be made to run off them too.

Second, even if the system drive is NTFS, you can still have additional drives for other data. Despite Windows having the retarded system of everything having on the C: drive (C:\Windows, C:\Program Files, C:\Documents and Settings, C:\whatever), it's always best to keep system separate from the data. Everyone buying a computer should be looking for at least two drives. Then, no real reason to have more than one NTFS. At least you spare youself the hassle of disabling NTFS indexation and other shit that keeps slowing Windows down to a quarter of their speed.

I've got 4 HDDs with around 10 partitions and only some of those are NTFS. The gaming partiton is NTFS, but if I didn't have enough space there, I'd just put the game somewhere else.

So apparently people STILL use FAT32 on their other drives for whatever reason - so it's pretty clear it actually IS an issue, even though just for a few users.

As I said, if you were to go out and purchase a Windows XP OS install CD right now, it would format its partition as NTFS. Perhaps you chose not to format the drive that way: just like with BootCamp, that's your choice and not the developers issue. Sad fact, and I can say this from personal experience: if developers tried to factor in every edge case into their development work, nobody would ever publish a game.

Now as to your statement "Then, no real reason to have more than one NTFS." This shows exactly how little you understand the matter. Yes, sure, have your FAT32, which is:
a) no longer supported (meaning no current drivers)
b) unable to efficiently address partitions larger than ~137 GB, to the point of increasing read/write times more than 4x
c) will not recognize files of greater size than 4GB

I could go on. And your main argument for FAT32 is that you have to remember to open up and uncheck a box in 'properties' on NTFS? Really?

Look, you may have your own preferences, and that's cool, but don't go spreading information that is factually incorrect. (Oh, and if you google it, you can set it up so your data files go to a different drive or partition by default-- even your 'my documents/music/pictures' folders. It's a pretty simple reg-hack, and it's what I do. Only have the base OS on C

 

[Balobo]

Ah PC gaming. I would buy this game for PS3 though.

I'm sorry, but your black box is not nearly powerful enough to run this game on proper settings.


Finally a game that was not developed with thought of having to fit in the tight limitations of console markets. But if CD project feels generous enough console people might get a PC port in some time... Mabby.

Well, it looks almost as good as Uncharted 2. But nothing so extreme that it can't be ported.

Hahahaha... oh, you're serious?

...

 

[Formica Archonis]

Damn, a nine gig file? It's like they WANT to make my defragger cry for no good reason.

 

[futahorse]

Fat32 as an OS or mass-storage(>64GB) partition is almost gone. It's all NTFS, Ext, and maybe exFAT now. The last time I formatted a HDD partition with Fat32 was so long ago(except on my old PenII laptop I own).


So no; I would not say that it is a "hidden requirement" in that sense. That is like saying your engine needing leaded gas is a hidden requirement now that all the pumps have unleaded. The filesystem was massively replaced in 2001 with the dawn of XP(FAT came in 1998 with Win95).

 

[Taawus]

This isn't even "hidden system requirements".

This is common sense.

 

[gunner1905]

Lol, it's funny that even something as nondescript as a file systems will pull people to argue about them like fanboys.
ahh the internet

OT if you want to play the witcher 2 you should not have fat32 HD

 

[MurderousToaster]

I have to wonder who it is that is still using a FAT32 drive. Are people still running Windows 98 out there or something?

If your PC can only do FAT32 partitions, there is a ludicrously small chance that your computer will be able to even run the game.

 

[Eternal Visitor]

doesn't look like anyone's pointed this out yet, but windows XP and newer won't show FAT32 as a file system option at all for volumes over 40GB, so while this COULD affect people using smaller SSDs as their only drive (meaning it would be a computer built solely to play this one game and do nothing else really...) any machine built in the last 11 or so years has a main drive to large for windows to offer FAT32.

basically, you have to do a lot of work to cause yourself to have this problem...and why people would go out of their way to have this problem and then complain about it is beyond me..

 

[Eternal Visitor]

<stupid browser malfunction, sorry for the double post>