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French Wars of Religion, the 30 Years War, Taiping Rebellion, Milkhemet Mitzvah, Cromwell in Ireland, The Albigensian Crusade, along with many instances of genocide (Darfur, Cambodia.artanis_neravar said:
Just to buff up your list a bit more.
OT : Maybe Goldman Sachs. I hate them.
Bill O'Reilly as well.
The Internet....So I can watch small businesses thrive again and enjoy seeing many more people back at work
The bible itself does not create war. Human beings create war.artanis_neravar said:
If there were no crusades European lords would have simply kept fighting amongst each other as they did when they were pagan kings and continued to do as "Christians". Furthermore, the real reason for the crusades was economic. The never-ending state of violence in Europe was hurting economic development, and in addition to plunder the war would secure the trade routes of the middle east. To give things a modern context imagine invading a middle eastern country proclaiming to seek WMD's when your real motivation is securing oil.
The holocaust was not prescribed in the bible. It was born of racial hatred, intolerance for the alien other, economic hardship, jingoism and a twisted vision of the science of genetics. It is a prime example of how anything can be bended and distorted to madness. Even science and popular sovereignty.
The spanish inquisition was created to act as secret police for a totalitarian state. It had little to do with religion and everything to do with securing the power of the monarchy.
The salem witch trials were the result of the human need to find scapegoats and human mistrust. The bible specifically condemns bearing false witness against a neighbor and yet whether out of paranoia, to remove a rival or escape a debt that's what people did.
The muslim terrorists do not want to strike america because of religious differences. They want to hurt america because we supplied funds to the muja hadin in the 1980's so that they could fight the soviets in Afghanistan. One of the primary tenants of the muja hadin was that the saudi arabian monarchy was false and had no claim to the throne. Knowing this we gave them the money anyhow and sponsored two decades of terrorism throughout the middle east. While civilians are not the ones who should suffer the consequences the assertion that they despise us for no warranted reason is patently false.
Your understanding of the events in question is quite rudimentary. To simply state "religion" at any one is like saying "slavery" to the causes of the civil war, which was primarily a conflict over the rights of states vs the rights of the federal government. They were all of them born out of earthly concerns. As long as there are humans there will be conflicts and justifications and prejudices and dehumanization and differences of opinion.
I don't have all day but I'll leave you with this, which you have to admit:Atheist. said:
Baradiel said:
All of them would not have been possible without Religion. The crusades would never have happened without the pope, who would Hitler have tried to rid the world of if there were no Jews or Catholics?, The Spanish inquisition could never have happened without the church. If there was no Christianity then the children wouldn't have been able to get away with claiming witch, never mind the fact that America would be completely different if no one came here out of religious persecution. The Muslims are fight America due to us being infidels, and yes the leaders may be fights for the reasons you listed but they wouldn't have soldiers willing to kill themselves for Allah's glory if there was no AllahGhengis John said:
I don't have all day but I'll leave you with this, which you have to admit:
[/quote]Baradiel said:
This part i do agree with
As for this part there is a chance that without the advent of Judaism and Christianity the Roman Empire might not have fallen, and Europe would never have become those warring lords.Ghengis John said:
Also I am not blaming the book for war I'm saying that without the Bible and the trio of religions that stem from it the leaders who start these wars would have nothing to convince the masses taht it is the right thing to do, and a leader without followers is powerless
From the looks of other people's replies I should pick something important and grandios, instead, I'm going to be selfish and say Bono. Just cause I can.
I'd love to say something benevolent like war, poverty or hatred, but I just can't help it...
JUSTIN FUCKING BIEBER, BEGONE FROM THIS WORLD!!!
JUSTIN FUCKING BIEBER, BEGONE FROM THIS WORLD!!!
Already covered above in the first half, so I'll take the second. If it's a war, religion is an excuse. There is no better way to say kill them than they're different than us, which still would have occurred without religion. The genocides in Africa are due to European colonization since we made people who didn't like each other leave in the same country and give some of them better treatment because they weren't as black as the rest of Africa and then left without trying to help them. Long rooted ethnic hatred breeds those. The loss of the bible would stop none of this because a different religion would have cropped up and taken its place anyways as it is a social adaptation for many early societies. Jihad isn't actually a "holy war" in the Koran, look it up. The greatest jihad one can do is fight themselves for religious enlightened. "Jihad" means "to struggle." Islam doesn't use the bible beyond a reference, same god, different book.Atheist. said:
The fall of the Roman Empire was going to happen anyways, the crusades were economic, and besides, religion actually does a great deal establishing the basic rules and tenets of an early civilization and provides an ideological frame work for the greater portion of society. People with power however will always abuse it and will often justify it with that same religion, just how it works.
OT with the OP: Every copy of the Star Wars prequels
I'd remove human mortality. Imagine what we would achieve with eternal life!
If that's cheating, censorship for adults. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that children could aquire any sick product, I prefer leaving that in the hands of parents. However, after someone matures I see no reason to restrict what they can and can't see.
If that's cheating, censorship for adults. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that children could aquire any sick product, I prefer leaving that in the hands of parents. However, after someone matures I see no reason to restrict what they can and can't see.
Good choice.Colour-Scientist said:
OT: Just to mix things around a little bit, SCIENCTIFIC ADVANCEMENT.
All of it. GONE.
Actually witches were born out of pagan beliefs. For most of the middle ages the church denied the existence of witches, only accepting their existence during the corrupt Medici years when writs were sold offering protection from their powers.artanis_neravar said:
If you think that terrorists are signing up for alla's glory you need only look at how many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, our ally, where the worst US sponsored terrorism took place. Those are not leaders, they are foot soldiers.
If there were no jews or catholics? You only asked for the elimination of the bible, but the Jews still considered themselves a separate people on ethnic lines anyhow and as a minority would be susceptible to exception and abuse.
The Spanish inquisition happened in spite of the church actually. The crown itself launched the initiative over Rome's objections, and it was directly under the control of the monarchy hence it is specifically the "Spanish Inquisition".
Also you misconstrue me. I'm not saying these events would have happened anyhow. I'm simply trying to highlight the ways in which their primary causes were not religion as well as shining the occasional bit of light on the confusion in your claims. All of them used religion as a justification to be sure, hence why I mention justifications, however all were born of human nature, greed, seflishness, prejudice, abuse of power ect. Not anything mandated from the bible itself. Jesus says "love your enemy" and is generally full of good advice ranging from tolerance to the separation of church and state. It's men who tell you somebody you never met is your enemy or that justice demands you should cut that person down. If there were no bible, there would still be tragedies. Supporting this thesis is all I'm trying to do. From the start when I stated "You're blaming a book for human nature."
Thankyou.