your "alternate charachter interpretations"
- Thread starter Vault101
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Okay, I don't think we played the same game. Jack is capital 'E' evil, he's just REALLY good at rationalizing it...and it would appear you've fallen victim.regalphantom said:
Some plot points revealed, so SPOILERS.
Yes, most of the characters on the player's side (including some of the one's you play) are not good people and some of them are pretty terrible. Lilith is a super powered drug addict, but she only uses those powers to combat the clans that constantly threaten sanctuary. Axton is certainly a glory hound, and Zero is basically a sanctioned murderer. Salvador is a thug, Mordecai is a washed up drunk, Brick is a bandit tribal leader, Gaige seems slightly unhinged by the events that led her to Pandora but hasn't gone over the deep end yet; Maya is pretty much the good guy (girl, whatever), but by and large these characters do one thing that sets them apart...maybe it doesn't make them good in the strictest sense but it certainly doesn't make them bad: they use their abilities to protect people who cannot protect themselves and to inflict harm on the man and the organization responsible for planet-wide misery. Far from perfect, but not villains.
But let's take a look at Jack.
Jack used the first 4 vault hunters to gain access to the vault. He used the resources he found there to move to the head of his company. He uses his position to continue to grind resources out of Pandora in a quest to find more Vaults to gain more power and wealth. This activity is directly responsible for both A) the environmental upheaval in Pandora and B) the new war sprawling across the planet as Jack has pretty much declared everyone who isn't a Hyperion employee a bandit. Hell, even working for the guy can get you killed if you say the wrong thing to him. He accomplished all of this by mentally and physically abusing his own daughter FOR YEARS. Yeah, that was his big payoff for torturing his daughter, he got enough stuff so that he could do the same thing to everyone on Pandora.
Is he upset that you killed Angel because she was his daughter or because you messed with his meal ticket? I don't even know if he knows, but Angel is better off a corpse than his tool.
He's a terrible person; a sociopath, defined through his own actions. He will do anything to anyone as long as it furthers his own goals.
But let's take a look at Jack.
Jack used the first 4 vault hunters to gain access to the vault. He used the resources he found there to move to the head of his company. He uses his position to continue to grind resources out of Pandora in a quest to find more Vaults to gain more power and wealth. This activity is directly responsible for both A) the environmental upheaval in Pandora and B) the new war sprawling across the planet as Jack has pretty much declared everyone who isn't a Hyperion employee a bandit. Hell, even working for the guy can get you killed if you say the wrong thing to him. He accomplished all of this by mentally and physically abusing his own daughter FOR YEARS. Yeah, that was his big payoff for torturing his daughter, he got enough stuff so that he could do the same thing to everyone on Pandora.
Is he upset that you killed Angel because she was his daughter or because you messed with his meal ticket? I don't even know if he knows, but Angel is better off a corpse than his tool.
He's a terrible person; a sociopath, defined through his own actions. He will do anything to anyone as long as it furthers his own goals.
very true...however its the difference between slavery/death if your a woman,gay or just not strong enough for the legion (and now that I think about it was ceasar racist as well? I dont think I remember many black legionaries) and at least being able get on with things (you know..as long as you dont make yourself an enemy of the bear..and at least they "ask questions before they shoot" unlike the legion which will rape pillage murder you whatever you do)Blunderboy said:
or if the NCR REALLY isn't your thing theres always mr house or an independant vegas (I went independent)
Well, I assume you're talking about video game characters rather than characters from elsewhere, but I've been rewatching Utena again, so screw it.Vault101 said:
Also, being that the thread is already on page 2, I know that the chances of any Utena fans actually seeing my post are almost nil. But what the hell, let's do this.
Shiori, from Revolutionary Girl Utena.
Normally viewed as a horrible ***** who is mean to Juri because... well, most people go with "because she's a *****" and leave it at that.
Me, I go a bit deeper.
See, the thing with Shiori is that she keeps dating men who she thinks Juri likes. She does this first before she knows that Juri is a lesbian (and in love with Shiori), but then she does it again after she learns the truth.
If she's just being a *****, why would she do that again when she already knows that Juri doesn't give two shits about guys?
My theory: Shiori is gay or bisexual too. Shiori has placed Juri in the "Male" role - Juri wears school uniform with pants instead of a skirt, and is one of the top athletes on campus - while Shiori has cast herself as the "female". She wants Juri to ask her out, but since she's the "girl" she can't ask Juri - Juri has to ask her. So Shiori says to herself "how do you get boys to ask you out?" Answer: make them jealous.
So Shiori keeps dating guys in front of Juri in an attempt to make Juri jealous enough to ask her out.
The problem? Juri assumes that Shiori is straight (because she keeps dating men) and so stays firmly in the closet and broods.
Shiori, seeing a lack of reaction, ups the ante and tries harder to make Juri jealous, dating someone she knows Juri dislikes.
When that guy publicly humiliates Shiori, Juri goes and tries to force him to take Shiori back to "make Shiori happy" at Juri's own expense.
And thus the viscous cycle continues. Shiori keeps trying to get Juri to react, and each attempt only makes Juri question whether or not she should just cut her losses and find someone else.
Much of this interpretation is based on Shiori's actions and motivations - as well as one line where Shiori screams at a mirror "It's not enough! Why won't Juri just tell me how she feels?!" This scene is immediately after she learns that Juri is gay and has feelings for her, by the way.
Ahem.
Anyway, I've wanted to talk about that for a bit, so thanks Vault 101 for giving me the chance to.
And if you are a fan of Revolutionary Girl Utena, please feel free to chime in. If you're reading this far into the thread.
....
but the Romans were the biggest badass empire in history!Vault101 said:
(pouts)
Although truth be told the NCR had better uniforms, especially the heavy ranger armor. Siding with the Legion....yea even in an alternate playthrough it was really hard to be on their side just to experience the story from the other perspective. I think I went into a NV playthrough with the intentions of being a Legion supporter (as a female character, just for funsies), but couldnt go through with it. They are such arseholes that eventually I went the Mr.house route instead.
Actually I ended up really like House. He was the only person who was not content with mere survival like the NCR and Legion, digging whatever scrapes from the past civilization they can find. He was interested in not only getting mankind back to where they were before civilization went to crap, but even had aspirations for expanding mankind beyond that.
Dr. Halsey is a war criminal no better than (in my opinion, MUCH worse), but most certainly far more lucky and successful than Kony.
she kidnaps children from their homes, replacing them with clones programed to die a few weeks later to keep their parents from getting suspicious. then she forces them to undergo extremely traumatic and invasive medical procedures, which most of them will not survive. the ones that DO survive are then trained to be killing machines, existing solely to brutally and secretly put down rebellion in UNSC colonies.
then the Covenant invasion happens...
John and the others aren't heroes. Heroes choose, they volunteer. they never had a choice, never volunteered. they were kidnapped and mutilated. by the end, the only "option" the ones who survived had left was service. they aren't heroes, they're victims.
she kidnaps children from their homes, replacing them with clones programed to die a few weeks later to keep their parents from getting suspicious. then she forces them to undergo extremely traumatic and invasive medical procedures, which most of them will not survive. the ones that DO survive are then trained to be killing machines, existing solely to brutally and secretly put down rebellion in UNSC colonies.
then the Covenant invasion happens...
John and the others aren't heroes. Heroes choose, they volunteer. they never had a choice, never volunteered. they were kidnapped and mutilated. by the end, the only "option" the ones who survived had left was service. they aren't heroes, they're victims.
i've heard that Halo 4, which i haven't played yet, touches on this point. but i get the sneaking suspicion that by the end Halsey will be "the hero that created mankind's saviors."
Here's a Blazblue theory.
(MIGHT BE SPOILERS SO BE CAREFUL IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED CONTINUUM SHIFT YET)
Hazama and Relius are actually as much a victim of their plan as anyone else. They are not in control of it at all and are just puppets to a higher power they created. In the events of Continuum Shift they are just reacting to the change in power and presumably the plan has changed because of this.
Of course this is all speculation.
(MIGHT BE SPOILERS SO BE CAREFUL IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED CONTINUUM SHIFT YET)
Hazama and Relius are actually as much a victim of their plan as anyone else. They are not in control of it at all and are just puppets to a higher power they created. In the events of Continuum Shift they are just reacting to the change in power and presumably the plan has changed because of this.
Of course this is all speculation.
The little girl in F3ar. I always viewed her as a calming guardian angel. Whenever I catch a glimpse of her, I know I'm safe 
I know barely anything about halo...butLev The Red said:
[spoiler/]I thourght it was a well known thing that the spartan program WAS horrific...but then "nessicary" to save humantiy..depending on how you see it (ends justify means and all that)[/spoiler]
I know "of" it but I havnt really warched it (I watched an online reveiw/analysis of it) essentially the whole thing leaves me wondering "man....this japanease obsession with schools is weiiiirrrrrrd"Bara_no_Hime said:
anyway....wasn;t the lesbian thing only "implied" in the manga/anime series..but outright stated in the film?
the spartan program was started well before the Covenant war started. the Spartans were created to put down the anti-UNSC rebellion, not defend the human race from aliens.Vault101 said:
Which lesbians?Vault101 said:
Juri is revealed to be a lesbian in episode 7 (of 39) of the anime, and it comes up four times again later, including when Utena (the main character) talks to Juri about lesbianism. And Juri makes a maybe-joke about possibly having feelings for Utena maybe.
Juri is entirely straight in the manga.
Juri is bisexual in the movie, and her sexual orientation doesn't come up in the movie manga.
I think you're thinking of Utena. She and Anthy are implied to have some sort of relationship late in the anime, but it is never revealed for sure. Likewise in the manga.
In the movie, Utena and Anthy have a naked makeout scene. While also a motorcycle.
In the movie manga, Utena and Anthy are shown going on a date as a couple in the aftermath (ie, after everything is over, they're a couple).
Also, fun fact - the anime and manga were created at the same time, by the two creators working independently. The movie manga was the manga writer's take on what the anime writer did differently than her in the anime, and the movie is based on the movie manga, but takes it further down the weird and surreal road.
Utena has recently been re-released and remastered. If you like weird, but really well written anime, check it out. Subbed - the English dub is badly hit or miss with several characters, and Juri for one sounds like she's doing a high school play.
Shiori, on the other hand, was voiced in English by Lisa Ortiz and is one of her best performances ever. Lisa Ortiz as Shiori is paradigm shiftingly good.
I thought it was both weird and badly written. But hey, opinions.Bara_no_Hime said:
OT:
I think that Sunny Smiles in Goodsprings wants the player dead or gone. She's tired of helping people around town and she has given up providing adequate instruction on survival.
Off topic again:
I saw the thread title and I had no doubt who created this thread, I was so hyped when I saw I was right, Vault.
Funny thing, I was playing New Vegas today and got Raul again. I tried doing his side quest but unfortunately, one of the characters I was supposed to talk to in order to initiate his unmarked quest seems to have disappeared from the game world. Loyal to be specific. So, as a result, I can't complete his quest, and now Raul is never going to find peace with himself.JEBWrench said:
Goddamnit New Vegas, I love you but you're so goddamn glitchy.
Oh well, I was able to do his quest in other playthroughs, so I guess I'm not missing too much.
Oh, and before you say anything. YES. I know about console commands, I can't use them though as I'm playing the 360 version.
OT: Peach is actually having an affair with Bowser. She just makes it look like she gets kidnapped every time. How else would you explain Bowser Jr. and his hundreds of brothers and sisters?
And poor Mario has no idea. He keeps risking his life to "save" someone who really doesn't give a shit about him.
I've always had this funny thought that the entire Mass Effect series is taking place in a shutter island like mental hospital, and that Shepard squad mates are employees who go along with his/her crazy shit in a simulation, and that everything after he/she touched the prothean artifact in ME1 has all been in his/her head.
I thought that was how it was in the original game, going with how much power the wise one has, and how he flat out cheats the system (as well as letting both parties leaving separately despite being able to effortlessly catch them) made it obvious he was in charge of everything.regalphantom said:
That interpretation could be argued to be a correct one, in the post game you are back in the magic world, with Marche (and everyone else) living quite happily in it, you could look at this as a different ending where he chose not to destroy the world.aegix drakan said:Here's one I have:
Marche of FFTA:
Marche is the true villain of the game. His friends find a magic book that transforms Earth into a flawed, but still better than Earth world. Each of his friends gets what they wish for deep in their hearts (getting their family back, losing a feature they were mocked over, having a chance to actually have adventures, being able to WALK again, etc), and what does Marche (who doesn't have any major problems like some of his friends do) decide to do? LET'S JUST TURN THE WORLD BACK TO THE OLD WAY, EVEN IF MY FRIENDS ARE GOING TO SUFFER FOR IT. Why? Because this fantasy world isn't "real".
Granted, Ivalice wasn't perfect. There were corrupt asshole judges, the royal family was full of jerks, and there were criminal gangs and monsters. But most of these problems could have been FIXED. Ivalice is soooo much better than Earth. And yet he REFUSED to see the bigger picture, and didn't really try to put himself in the shoes of his friends who would lose so much more than him if the world went back. All because he didn't believe that Ivalice was "real", and thus it was all just escapism.
News Flash, Marche. That's a MASSIVE DICK MOVE. It's called EMPATHY, you dolt. You're a very nice guy already, so why the heck can't you empathize?!
...This character interpretation makes the game's "meh" story much much better.
Oh, and speak of the devil, someone else had the same idea!
Yeah, that works too.Alternative said: