Your thoughts on, "Well if you have nothing to hide..."

[Parasondox]

Freedom!!

I see this quote around so so much in the past few years.

"I don't mind if the government checks my emails and records my phone calls. I have nothing to hide"

Yeah, in a way, you are correct. You haven't done anything illegal and have proof that you haven't, then you are safe. But are you really 100% safe?

That's why I wanted to ask for your opinion. If you say something too anti-government on a personal website or even here, does the government have the right to question you.

So, what do you think of this quote? Pro and Cons welcomes and let a hear both sides. Or is the main question Privacy vs "Safety"*?

Thank you.

*The governments version of "safety", that is.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

People say that they have nothing to hide, but everyone has something to hide, even things that are completely innocent and legal.

Take for example my internet search history. Lets not even discuss the pornography, but rather another subject. I majored in criminal justice in college, and had to read a lot of case studies. My search history is filled with articles about murder, rape, child molestation, and all sorts of creepy shit. I also studied forensics, so my search history is full of searches about which chemical compounds dissolve bodies best, and various forensic tools that criminologists use to find evidence at crime scenes. Add to that the fact that I am a shooting enthusiast and enjoy learning about firearms, when you put it all together it sounds like I'm learning how to commit the perfect murder.

Do I want the government to see all these searches together and decide that I need to be on a watch list, or to be brought in for questioning? Of course not, that's an inconvenience to me, so obviously I'd rather not have the government know about these completely legal activities.

There are tons of perfectly legal things that we hide from others. Everyone likes their privacy and everyone likes to keep secrets and tell little white lies. Some people don't think about all the little secrets that they keep when they proclaim "I have nothing to hide."

 

[DoPo]

So, what do you think of this quote? Pro and Cons welcomes and let a hear both sides. Or is the main question Privacy vs Safety?

I don't think there is safety without privacy. If anybody government can snoop on anybody, then the supposed "bad guys" can do, too. If the government is not only not helping privacy, but actively discouraging it, they are helping the "bad guys". It's a really big contradiction to claim the opposite. That's my thoughts on the matter, in short.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

"I don't mind if the government checks my emails and records my phone calls. I have nothing to hide"

I'll simply say that I have noticed a certain trend over the years concerning that idea. Every single person I know who has said such a thing, has stated it as a theoretical construct. And that the same people who theorize that they have nothing to hide invariably have a great deal to hide from their significant other, family and friends. To avoid embarrassment, if nothing else. Also, they never seem to really grasp the idea that the access to information they refer to means that someone would have access to every bit of information conceivable about them. They always seem to think that certain types of information will always remain hidden. ("When I meant I had no problem with them reading my emails, I didn't mean THOSE!!!)

The idea that someone is not bothered that a 'government' or legal body has access to information about you is always a theoretical idea that does not take into account that said 'government' is made up of people who you have never met. People, who if you ever met and thus internalized that they were people, would have a conniption fit if you thought they were able to pry into every secret you had in your life.

Somehow, it always seems that when someone says they don't mind if someone reads their information, they also seem to be thinking that no one would ever look at their information because they haven't done anything and that the consequences of open information will only be applied to other people. A variant of the 'Just World' fallacy in action.

As a safety issue, the matter was already taken care of with the concept of warrants. If the information was required for the public safety, then access to that information could be obtained legally after the person seeking that information explained in a legal setting why they needed it. What some folks don't seem to understand is that the sentiment of "I don't mind because I have nothing to hide", implies that the legal basis for warrants are unnecessary.

 

[FalloutJack]

The thing about this stupid notion is that they're not thinking when they say that. Every time the government peeks into something like that and there is NOT something suspicious in there, they're basically prying into things that do not concern them. It's not your business. Nearly all of their targets will be completely innocent, which means they'd be harassing people for no reason at all. Doesn't matter if there's nothing to hide. There's no reason to subject people TO IT.

 

[Mutant1988]

I want my privacy. It doesn't matter if I have anything to hide or not.

Government is people. People are not uniform, people are not always nice. If you let anyone put their nose in your business then you leave the door open for just about anyone. You can't know if the guy that reads your mail won't use it against you. Or that the government itself won't change and use the systems in place against anyone they want to get rid of.

No. The only thing such a policy creates is paranoia and a sense of suppression. If everyone feels that they are constantly being watched they will go insane.

You should only be allowed to intrude on someone's privacy if there is reason to assume that a crime is committed. Just existing is not reason enough.

 

[Mezahmay]

This topic reminds me of a video I saw a while ago from (I think) a Harvard Law School professor explaining 10 reasons why you should never talk to the police without a lawyer and not to let them check your things "if you have nothing to hide." The point that stuck with me is that the Miranda warning states that anything you say can only be used by the police against you in a court of law, not in your favor. Even if you think you've done nothing wrong, they can still find something you didn't realize was wrong and can bust you for it all because you invited them to look or they can possibly link you to something else that otherwise you would have had nothing to do with, which is at best an inconvenience for everyone involved.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I often feel that way myself. There is stuff that I would be very embarrassed about if it got out, but I don't worry about the government spying on me.

Now, where I do draw the line is if I am suddenly accused of something. Once, this woman at the mall accused me and my friends of taking pictures of her little three year old girl. She called security on us and everything. We cooperated, pulled out our phones and showed the guys our pictures. But only out pictures. They were very polite and apologized, seeing that we had done nothing wrong, and sent us on our way. Now, if they had asked for our phones, or even our names, I would have said no. Not because we were guilty, but because that could come back to bite us later. They might file a report with the police, and then the police would come and talk with us. And then that might be written down in a police report--suspected of child endangerment--and then that would follow us around for years, perhaps the rest of our lives.

So yeah, I have nothing to hide, but there are times where I don't, or won't, give out information because even if it is harmless, it can be twisted to do great harm in the wrong hands.

 

[Scarecrow1001]

The phrase makes no sense to me. Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean that you want your Government snooping through your personal information, whether it be e-mails, calls, or search history. I don't really want to say this, as I have been shouted down about it before, but 1984 really raises fabulous points about this whole idea, and is one of the reasons I am against Government Sanctioned invasions of privacy.
EDIT
I agree with some others here, you do not know the shady stuff in your search history until you do research for writing.

 

[visiblenoise]

If somebody shoved a ballot slip in my face asking whether the government should be allowed surveillance over my communications, of course I'd say no. If I had to go wait in a line to vote on it, I might not.

I just cannot conceive of how my current or potential future interests might lead me to trouble with the government.

 

[Parasondox]

The phrase makes no sense to me. Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean that you want your Government snooping through your personal information, whether it be e-mails, calls, or search history. I don't really want to say this, as I have been shouted down about it before, but 1984 really raises fabulous points about this whole idea, and is one of the reasons I am against Government Sanctioned invasions of privacy.

You were shouted down about 1984? That and Animal Farm are things we see in real life but many choose to ignore it or jusr hide away from it thinking, "Nah, that couldn't really happen".

I often feel that way myself. There is stuff that I would be very embarrassed about if it got out, but I don't worry about the government spying on me.

Now, where I do draw the line is if I am suddenly accused of something. Once, this woman at the mall accused me and my friends of taking pictures of her little three year old girl. She called security on us and everything. We cooperated, pulled out our phones and showed the guys our pictures. But only out pictures. They were very polite and apologized, seeing that we had done nothing wrong, and sent us on our way. Now, if they had asked for our phones, or even our names, I would have said no. Not because we were guilty, but because that could come back to bite us later. They might file a report with the police, and then the police would come and talk with us. And then that might be written down in a police report--suspected of child endangerment--and then that would follow us around for years, perhaps the rest of our lives.

So yeah, I have nothing to hide, but there are times where I don't, or won't, give out information because even if it is harmless, it can be twisted to do great harm in the wrong hands.

Yeah, this is why when I take pictures of London landmarks, I make sure no kids, or anyone for that matter, are in the shot cause anyone can shout one ill thing and out comes the police report. Good thing you are cautious about the name giving too because as soon as you say something against them, protest the offence or give your name, things may come back to haunt you and all you were doing was something innocent. There are too many people out there who would love to cause problems for people they don't even know.

Sounds like paranoia on my part but in this day and age, you have to be careful.

 

[senordesol]

As a writer, I have to look up all sorts of weird/suspicious stuff for research. It's all legit, but it's suspicious as hell. I don't need anyone looking to hard at my history who doesn't have a damn good reason to.

 

[K12]

The thing is we do all have something to hide that has nothing to do with the law.

We close the bathroom door when we go to the toilet and we don't get our genitals out in public. Absolutely everyone knows what they'll find in there (with a few rare exceptions of course) but we still all hide it because it's private and we have a right to that.

 

[Vault101]

that assumes the powers that be are always fair and reasonable

as much as my naïve authoritarian streak still lingers....we know this isn't true, for the most part

even innocuous shit could be held against you

I just cannot conceive of how my current or potential future interests might lead me to trouble with the government.

lets say in future land you go to a protest over the rights of animals, due to technology or whatever they know you attended, now your on the "protestors" watch list

then you watch some MLP, due to the existence of the "clopping" community they've pegged you as a deviant with childish fixations

then later in a moment of frustration you write a ranty post that contains refercen to violent acts...now they think you might go off and shoot someone

 

[HardkorSB]

The problem with that is that it only goes one way.
I would be all for it if ordinary citizens would be able check what any member of the government is doing at any given moment, go through their personal files and hold them responsible for any wrongdoings.
Otherwise, no thanks.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

This mindset comes from the fallacious idea that "the government" is some faceless, monolithic, disinterested entity. "The government" is actually made up of people- people with biases, hatreds and agendas of their own, just like any other human being. It's just a matter of time for many of us before one of those people notices our data for whatever reason- maybe your last name is from a region with historical grievances against their homeland, maybe you have a political affilation opposing theirs, maybe you're a minority they hate, maybe they just don't like your hobbies- and then you're going to find yourself with a serious problem.

 

[Parasondox]

This mindset comes from the fallacious idea that "the government" is some faceless, monolithic, disinterested entity. "The government" is actually made up of people- people with biases, hatreds and agendas of their own, just like any other human being. It's just a matter of time for many of us before one of those people notices our data for whatever reason- maybe your last name is from a region with historical grievances against their homeland, maybe you have a political affilation opposing theirs, maybe you're a minority they hate, maybe they just don't like your hobbies- and then you're going to find yourself with a serious problem.

Well many UK government officials don't approve of BDSM and porn in general and just wish for that to be banned. Remember the list of banned acts in British porn they wanted rid of and the whole filter bull crap of last year? If some get their way porn and BDSM will be illegal and boy will I be in prison, or just monitored a lot.

 

[Fox12]

People have told me that the government needs this power in order to protect us from "the bad guys."

The irony is that, the moment the government does this, they are the bad guys.

Lets say the reverse is true, though. The government should be way more open and transparent. After all, if the government has nothing to hide then it has nothing to fear. But, of course, the government doesn't want that. They want to know everything about our personal lives while keeping everything confidential about themselves. The government has committed horrible acts in the past. It's only natural, it's run by people. Do I want these people to have access to personal data? Absolutely not. It's the age old question. Do you want power to reside with the government, or with the people? Most people would say the second, but you would be surprised how many people subconsciously want it to lie with the former.

Individuals who value their security over their freedom will receive neither.