Zeitgeist

[legion431]

For those of you who have seen Zeitgeist I want to know your opinion of it. Do you think it was factual, a load of shit...well?

So escapists, please share your opinion.

EDIT: If you haven't already seen Zeitgeist I would recommend it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

 

[Exterminas]

Why can't it be factual and a load of shit at the same time?

Yes, some of these things are probably true.

But even if all of them were true, does that make them important?
No.

Because the value of truth is entirely idealistic. In reality people won't stop spending money because the financial system is evil. Why? Because people are selfish and self-centered. If they get to choose between making things better for the future and having warm water tomorrow, they are going to pick the latter.

That isn't really bad, mind you. We have achieved a lot of awesome things with the current system.


So in summary: Most of it is probably true, from the content, but most of it is also a load of shit, in a performative sense, because no movie is going to spark a revolution. (Which is what Zeitgeist seems to have in mind)

 

[Wuggy]

It's pretty much bollocks. Quote-mining, fabrications and flat out lies. One big intellectually dishonest piece of work. If you want to see the factual errors debunked, you can read a whole big thing about it here: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist-addendum/

 

[JesterRaiin]

Ditto.
Accurate observations doesn't lead to correct conclusions.

 

[Duffeknol]

It's a gripping, well made, nicely produced, hypnotic, entertaining, interesting and wonderful load of blatant lies.

 

[Wuggy]

It's a gripping, well made, nicely produced, hypnotic, entertaining, interesting and wonderful load of blatant lies.

Hahahaha, this is probably the best description I've ever heard of it. And it's true too, it's really gripping and convincing. I myself was convinced all those things were true, until I actually researched it myself.

But yeah, it's not just that the conclusions are wrong: the premises are also incorrect.

 

[Duffeknol]

It's a gripping, well made, nicely produced, hypnotic, entertaining, interesting and wonderful load of blatant lies.

Hahahaha, this is probably the best description I've ever heard of it. And it's true too, it's really gripping and convincing. I myself was convinced all those things were true, until I actually researched it myself.

But yeah, it's not just that the conclusions are wrong: the premises are also incorrect.

When I first watched it I had no idea what I was getting into. It started out very interesting with where our idea of God(s) came from and how old gods relate to modern ones. It could've been a National Geographic documentary... until they finished the scene with almost literally yelling 'SEE?! ALL GODS ARE THE SAME ILLUMINATI CONTROL CROWD CONTROL ILLUMINATI GODS CHRISTIANITY CONTROL MIND CHIP'. Then I was like '...oh'.

 

[GWarface]

In theory, the movie is quite good imo, but what they talk about wont be able to happend in the world as it is now..
The system they talk about could become even more corrupt than the one we have atm..

 

[Exterminas]

The movie also reminds me of the Nazis propaganda about the jewish complot to take over the world via banking.

Sure they cut out the jews, but for a series of movies so determinate to tell people "Look, you only use this silly old concept for your beliefs!" they fail pretty hard in that regard.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh god don't even go there, it's the worst flame bait since... well probably ever.

Some will scream lies others will scream truth, I say there is enough info out there so make up your own damn mind.

 

[EvilPicnic]

It's absolute nonsense. I have a couple of friends who seem to think it's the real deal, and I've watched the films to humour them, but it's painful because it's so WRONG. I mean, conspiracy theories can be fun, but Zeitgeist doesn't even try to be vaguely plausible.

What people are saying above about neither the premises or conclusions being correct is absolutely true.

One minor example that I can remember off the top of my head (I've mainly blocked that shite out of my memory) is in the first movie where it goes something like "'Son' sounds like 'Sun', therefore Jesus is a sun-god" Anyone with even a vague knowledge of etymology or theology of the monotheistic religions can tell that is absolute horseshit (are the words homophones in english? Yes. Are they homopohones in aramaic, or any other language? No). And the larger concepts aren't any more sensible.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's a gripping, well made, nicely produced, hypnotic, entertaining, interesting and wonderful load of blatant lies.

Best. Summary. EVER!

Seriously, though, it was quite compelling. a shame I knew better on half their lies already, and the rest can be readily debunked with a few minutes of research.

It's almost like they were more interested in the narrative than the truth.

Actually, it's probably EXACTLY that.

 

[Duffeknol]

It's absolute nonsense. I have a couple of friends who seem to think it's the real deal, and I've watched the films to humour them, but it's painful because it's so WRONG. I mean, conspiracy theories can be fun, but Zeitgeist doesn't even try to be vaguely plausible.

What people are saying above about neither the premises or conclusions being correct is absolutely true.

One minor example that I can remember off the top of my head (I've mainly blocked that shite out of my memory) is in the first movie where it goes something like "'Son' sounds like 'Sun', therefore Jesus is a sun-god" Anyone with even a vague knowledge of etymology or theology of the monotheistic religions can tell that is absolute horseshit (are the words homophones in english? Yes. Are they homopohones in aramaic, or any other language? No). And the larger concepts aren't any more sensible.

I laughed my ass off when they were talking about 'the son of god' and how important this concept was, and then used freaking Dionysos as an example. Yes, the god of parties, orgies and wine, a super minor god who does nothing but eat, drink, pork and sleep all day, who happens to be Zeus' son. THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

 

[viranimus]

Problem with the Zeitgeist movement is its built on sweeping generalizations with no practical means to undo human nature.

There are plenty of good ideas in the movement like self reliance, moving off of a system of money, allocation of resources for the good of the species, etc but the problem it massively fails to address is how. Those who make their money off of the current structure are NEVER going to give up their money.

And this isnt a rail on the sucessful. This is just human nature at its finest. You cannot at this point in human evolution separate humanity and greed. Even the poor who would benefit most from a zeitgeist utopia wont give it up because of the promise that someday too they might be wealthy. However theres an even greater problem.

Idle hands are the devils workshop. Simple fact is that yes our technology would allow us as a species to sustain ourselves much more efficiently than we currently do. But imagine for a second what that means. In the US we have unemployment starting to creep back up to 10%. What we are finding is that as our technology increases, the need for someone to perform a vocation greatly decreases. The more you decrease the need for a work force, the more people your going to have out of work. This presents two distinct problems.

In an environment where you have more efficently managed your resources your going to need substantially less people working. Imagine 50 or even 75% unemployment. So how exactly do you balance the needs of the people who need to work and those who do not? If your able to create a society where only 1/10th of your population needs to perform a vocation and you are meeting everyones essential needs, what possible incentive is there to get that 10% to work when the largest bulk of the population does not need to.

The second is again contingent on human nature. We do not live in the Star trek world
We live in a world where greed does exist. Honestly that is not entirely a bad thing either. Consider this, what exactly would you do if six billion people had no need to work? Arguably the western world has the closest to this ideal in that we have more freedom and time. And what do we do with it? We essentially graze. There are so many people who essentially do nothing but take up space. So the idealized notion that the population would just begin to work to better themselves or the pursuit of knowledge is actually counter intuitive to human nature.

Again, I like some of what the Zeitgeist movement proposes and honestly I am not disagreeing with those specified elements. However the movement only makes suggestions and lays out no real means of how to accomplish what it claims we should be doing. Also it is putting forth romanticized ideas without taking into consideration what their practical application would bring.

 

[LetalisK]

I first heard about it when a hooker recommended I watch it(don't ask how I got into a discussion like this with a hooker, it's really weird). I didn't exactly run out and see it after her recommendation.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I was enthralled by it and so was my dad, I even checked out their official sites. For a couple of days I simmered on the notions brought forward and I started to read into it...

One day, after reading some article on the web about zeitgeist (in it's favour) I looked up something that didn't sit right with me. I found a small contradiction in what I read.

That night my brain went into overdrive, I had weird fucking dreams and when I woke up I thought to myself "What a crock of shit".

Unsurprisingly, I'm now unphased by what these blowhards and bullshitters have to say...

 

[Robert Ewing]

Accurate observation doesn't lead to conclusion. It seems a load of bullshit for me.

But 10/10 effort though, I was enthralled.

 

[poleboy]

How dare those jerks ruin a perfectly nice cultural and social term that even sounds cool. Try saying it: [ˈtsaɪtɡaɪst]. Awesome.

 

[spartan231490]

I've seen most of these facts elsewhere, it's probably legit.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

The only one I've seen was the Zeitgeist movie. While I didn't really buy all of the "Evil banking clan." bullshit, they did bring up interesting points concerning Jesus Christ and 9/11 that, when I looked into it, turned out to be quite factual.
But personally, I think the Zeitgeist movies are dangerous, in a sense. Stupid people watch these videos, drink it all up, and then THINK they know a bunch of shit that they don't. Idiots who think, because they "know" the things that were said in the video, that they are smarter than everyone else. It reminds me of The Devinci Code and how millions of idiots thought that it was 100% true.