Zero Punctuation: Dante's Inferno

[geldonyetich]

As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't the second or subsequent times either.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first. [Edit: Lest we run into anybody else as thick as Shadow Skill, don't take the word "genre" as implying "Action" or "Beat'Em'Ups" or "Fighting" or any silly word someone tasked with categorizing games might have put under the word "genre." Instead, think of it as something much more specific to the God of War/Devil May Cry experience.]

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

 

[-[c0Ka|Ne]-]

The summary at the end was funneh!

 

[ewhac]

I rather liked the throwaway tableau he drew at the beginning with Abraham about to spike Isaac, with $(GOD) floating in at the last minute saying, "Just kidding."

My sweetie, who is a religious studies major, has corrected me on this point. If you're Judeo-Christian, it's Isaac on the slab. If you're Islamic, it's Ishmael.

 

[Hunter.Wolf]

No not every hack 'n' slash is trying to be God of War.

Sure thing .. nobody said that ... but you know what ... Dante's inferno is trying that ... see .. that's the whole point .. it is a blatant rip-off.

In other words.

"Devil May Cry" .... is different
"Ninja Gaiden" ... is different
"Dead Rising" ... is different
"No more Heroes" ... is different
"Heavenly Sword" ... is different
"God Hand" ... is different
"Mad World" ... is different

On the other hand ... Dante's inferno .. blatantly rips-off GoW .. it is so damn obvious .. and not only does it rip-it-off .. but it does it badly ... now that's just one sad-excuse-for-game.

 

[shadow skill]

Maybe I would wait for God of War III if I wasn't already pretty bored of the Devil May Cry formula.

Developers are cutting mighty close to the quick here in terms of, "its time to stop milking that cash cow and do something original again." Ah, who I am kidding? Big game developers avoid doing that like it'll give them leprosy.

Regarding the humor of the review: a tad wank heavy, but what can I say? At this point, it seems Wednesdays shoddy incomplete works without a Yahtzee review, and this one was certainly up to snuff. A divine comedy about a God of War knockoff of the divine comedy.

I'm going to assume that you haven't seen the latest trailer for God of War III, because if you have then your first comment doesn't seem to reflect particularly well on you. I think it's safe to say that when God of War 3 is released most, if not all, of the people who are genuinely willing to give the game a chance (as opposed to you apparently) aren't going to be pointing at it and saying Devil May Cry. Especially not after the release of Devil May Cry 4. Please refer to Yahtzee's review of Devil May Cry 4 for a bit more on that point.

Me: This gameplay seems mighty derivative seeing how there's so many Devil May Cry/God Of War-like games these days.

You: OMG! GOW-III IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN DEVIL MAY CRY! I'M GOING TO NAME MY FIRST BORN SON KRATOS AND CAST YOU DOWN INTO A PIT OF DESPAIR FOR DARING TO SLANDER THE GOD OF WAR NAME.

Me: ...

Except that isn't what you said. What you said is that you are getting tired of the Devil May cry formula which isn't the same as saying that the gameplay of Dante's Inferno seems derivative in light of the existence of many Devil May Cry/God of War type games. You are actually changing the argument. Factually the God of War/Devil May Cry comparisons end at their being in the same genre and therefore possessing certain similarities. Anything beyond that would be like saying Blazblue is a Street Fighter clone because you punch, kick, throw, and shoot projectiles in both games.

As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't bother no matter how many times I repeat myself.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first.

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

Devil May Cry was not the first game in the genre. Kung Fu Master was. The original usage of Hack and Slash had to do with games like Diablo rather than Brawlers like Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry. Ninja Gaiden is a far older franchise than Devil May Cry mind you.

 

[geldonyetich]

[Original message:]
Maybe I would wait for God of War III if I wasn't already pretty bored of the Devil May Cry formula.

Developers are cutting mighty close to the quick here in terms of, "its time to stop milking that cash cow and do something original again." Ah, who I am kidding? Big game developers avoid doing that like it'll give them leprosy.

Except that isn't what you said. What you said is that you are getting tired of the Devil May cry formula which isn't the same as saying that the gameplay of Dante's Inferno seems derivative in light of the existence of many Devil May Cry/God of War type games. You are actually changing the argument.

So, let me get this straight:

You think I changed the argument because I first said I was tired of a type of game and then said I felt it was derivative?

It would seem to me that it's not that hard to connect these two things as being part of the same idea: I'm tired of it because it's overly derivative.

Factually the God of War/Devil May Cry comparisons end at their being in the same genre and therefore possessing certain similarities. Anything beyond that would be like saying Blazblue is a Street Fighter clone because you punch, kick, throw, and shoot projectiles in both games.

The way I see it, when I'm tired of Street Fighter, I'm not going to get all that much more enjoyment out of BlazBlue. When I'm tired of Devil May Cry, I'm not going to get all that much more enjoyment out of God Of War or Dante's Inferno.

If they made a lot of radical deviations of gameplay, I'd change my tune. They did not. (Unless maybe you think the inclusion of quick time events has a whole lot of substance - personally, I look at them as being a barely interactive cinematic.)

 

[geldonyetich]

Devil May Cry was not the first game in the genre. Kung Fu Master was.

?!


Is the same type of game as


To you?

Yeah - how about you get a real perspective on games before you start trying to pick an argument?

The original usage of Hack and Slash had to do with games like Diablo rather than Brawlers like Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry.

I'm not even going to touch this one. You just keep digging yourself deeper.

For the record, I never wrote the word genre even once. I'm talking about derivative gameplay experiences. You can throw crude categorizations such as genres at me all day, you'll just continue to miss the finer detail in which my point was made.

 

[shadow skill]

Devil May Cry was not the first game in the genre. Kung Fu Master was.

?!


Is the same type of game as


To you?

Yeah - how about you get a real perspective on games before you start trying to pick an argument?

Yes actually they are the same type of game, in the same way that Street Fighter is the same type of game as Soul Calibur. The fact that one is a 2D side scroller and the other is 3d does not change the genre. How about you use your brain for five seconds instead of having to wait for someone to state the obvious?

[Original message:]
Maybe I would wait for God of War III if I wasn't already pretty bored of the Devil May Cry formula.

Developers are cutting mighty close to the quick here in terms of, "its time to stop milking that cash cow and do something original again." Ah, who I am kidding? Big game developers avoid doing that like it'll give them leprosy.

Except that isn't what you said. What you said is that you are getting tired of the Devil May cry formula which isn't the same as saying that the gameplay of Dante's Inferno seems derivative in light of the existence of many Devil May Cry/God of War type games. You are actually changing the argument.

So, let me get this straight:

You think I changed the argument because I first said I was tired of a type of game and then said I felt it was derivative?

It would seem to me that it's not that hard to connect these two things as being part of the same idea: I'm tired of it because it's overly derivative.

Factually the God of War/Devil May Cry comparisons end at their being in the same genre and therefore possessing certain similarities. Anything beyond that would be like saying Blazblue is a Street Fighter clone because you punch, kick, throw, and shoot projectiles in both games.

The way I see it, when I'm tired of Street Fighter, I'm not going to get all that much more enjoyment out of BlazBlue. When I'm tired of Devil May Cry, I'm not going to get all that much more enjoyment out of God Of War or Dante's Inferno.

If they made a lot of radical deviations of gameplay, I'd change my tune. They did not.

Yes in fact it does change the argument because what you argue originally is that you are bored of Devil May Cry mechanics. You then proceed to change your argument to "I am tired of the genre itself."

It's the difference between saying that you are bored with the Lord of the Rings formula, vs. being bored with the fantasy genre itself. One implies boredom with items that seem to be derived from the tropes that Lord of the Rings created whereas the other says that you are bored of the tropes that make a given work a part of the genre itself.

Devil May Cry was not the first game in the genre. Kung Fu Master was.

?!


Is the same type of game as


To you?

Yeah - how about you get a real perspective on games before you start trying to pick an argument?

The original usage of Hack and Slash had to do with games like Diablo rather than Brawlers like Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry.

I'm not even going to touch this one. You just keep digging yourself deeper.

For the record, I never wrote the word genre even once. I'm talking about derivative gameplay experiences. You can throw crude categorizations such as genres at me all day, you'll just continue to miss the finer detail in which my point was made.

Changing the argument and then claiming victory doesn't really mean much of anything. Let me guess you figured out how stupid your original comment was and decided to alter your argument to try and fail miserably at making it even more nebulous than before? Ironically all this game experience stuff actually falls under the word genre, since genre however broad denotes the type of experience to be had in a game.

 

[Dr. Doctor]

Loved it.

Sure, it's a knockoff of GoW et al, but you know, GoW was a rip-off of games I played 20 years ago. (Doom anyone? Okay, how about Diablo?) It was still kinda fun and it satisfied my "GOD, I hated Catholic school" twitches for a few hours.

You were joking, right?

Also, called the "Like God of War-" joke about two weeks ago. Yay for me.

 

[Brotherofwill]

I can't recall a single positive thing he said about it, it was about as negative as they get.

Oh, it was rife with negativity, but for some reason, it felt like they were all small complaints, or like the filler (mostly wank jokes) somehow made them less severe...compare with Borderlands, which I think was *much* worse.

Very true, it all depends on the way he's saying it and the tone of his voice. Wet was probably the harshest one I can remember.

 

[geldonyetich]

Yes in fact it does change the argument because what you argue originally is that you are bored of Devil May Cry mechanics. You then proceed to change your argument to "I am tired of the genre itself."

Guess what? You don't get to decide what I was thinking when I wrote a message. If you didn't pick up on it, that was a failure to communicate.

While it is possible I could have wrote things clearer, judging by what I've seen so far, it was mostly you who was unwilling or unable to commit the effort to communicate successfully.

When I clarified, this was a service to help you understand what you misunderstood, which you wrongfully interpreted as being an argument.

Changing the argument and then claiming victory doesn't really mean much of anything. Let me guess you figured out how stupid your original comment was and decided to alter your argument to make it even more nebulous than before?

I already explained how I changed nothing. You're wasting considerable quote space in re-quoting an entire message where all I did was add a clarifying paragraph at the end.

This message was much heavier revised. You could interpret this as me seeing something wrong with what I'm saying, but again you would miss the point that all I'm doing is clarifying. I reserve the right to clarify my points all I want, if you don't like it: tough.

I also explained how I argued about nothing. Your continued belief that this is occurring nonetheless only establishes how deeply deluded and/or unable to read you are.

I particularly find it amusing about how you believe I'm "claiming victory." It offers a window into your mind that there's an epic debate going on here. There is not.

Furthermore, even if there was a debate going on here, it seems you don't know how to have one. You ignored everything I told you and tried to shift gears to something that has nothing to do with what I said. To take a phrase out of your quote: "let me guess." You were so abysmally in the dark you couldn't even begin to address what I said, and so decided to try to discredit me instead?

 

[shadow skill]

Changing the argument and then claiming victory doesn't really mean much of anything. Let me guess you figured out how stupid your original comment was and decided to alter your argument to make it even more nebulous than before?

I already explained how I changed nothing. You're wasting considerable quote space in re-quoting an entire message where all I did was add a clarifying paragraph at the end. I reserve the right to clarify my points all I want, if you don't like it: tough.

I also explained how I argued about nothing. Your continued belief that this is occurring nonetheless only establishes how deeply deluded and/or unable to read you are.

I particularly find it amusing about how you believe I'm "claiming victory." It offers a window into your mind that there's an epic debate going on here. There is not.

Furthermore, even if there was a debate going on here, it seems you don't know how to have one. You ignored everything I told you and tried to shift gears to something that has nothing to do with what I said. To take a phrase out of your quote: "let me guess." You were so abysmally in the dark you couldn't even begin to address what I said, and so decided to try to discredit me instead?

What's this then?

[http://omploader.org/vM256aw]


The text if you don't feel like clicking the picture:

As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't bother no matter how many times I repeat myself.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first.

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

You clearly mention genre and then claim you didn't. When called on it you suggest that you are talking about game experiences when you clearly state that your reasoning has everything to do with the fact (According to you.) that DMC was the first in it's genre. You don't get to change your argument the moment someone calls you on it and declare victory.

At best you are disingenuous at worst you genuinely have no idea what you are even saying.

 

[geldonyetich]

Changing the argument and then claiming victory doesn't really mean much of anything. Let me guess you figured out how stupid your original comment was and decided to alter your argument to make it even more nebulous than before?

I already explained how I changed nothing. You're wasting considerable quote space in re-quoting an entire message where all I did was add a clarifying paragraph at the end. I reserve the right to clarify my points all I want, if you don't like it: tough.

I also explained how I argued about nothing. Your continued belief that this is occurring nonetheless only establishes how deeply deluded and/or unable to read you are.

I particularly find it amusing about how you believe I'm "claiming victory." It offers a window into your mind that there's an epic debate going on here. There is not.

Furthermore, even if there was a debate going on here, it seems you don't know how to have one. You ignored everything I told you and tried to shift gears to something that has nothing to do with what I said. To take a phrase out of your quote: "let me guess." You were so abysmally in the dark you couldn't even begin to address what I said, and so decided to try to discredit me instead?

What's this then?

[http://omploader.org/vM256aw]

It's a screenshot of a message you failed to understand.

The text if you don't feel like clicking the picture:

As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't bother no matter how many times I repeat myself.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first.

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

You clearly mention genre and then claim you didn't. When called on it you suggest that you are talking about game experiences when you clearly state that your reasoning has everything to do with the fact (According to you.) that DMC was the first in it's genre. You don't get to change your argument the moment someone calls you on it and declare victory.

You're right, I did use the word "genre."

I'm sorry that the word mislead you so heavily. I didn't expect to run into anyone so dense as to hear "genre" and immediately think "well, because people might apply some of the same words towards the genre of Kung Fu Master and Devil May Cry then Geldonyetich is obviously unaware of the differences between God of War and Devil May Cry and thus has no right to be bored them."

There you go with your "declare victory" nonsense again.

What are you? 16? Stop trying to picking intellectual debates with people twice your age. You may have a sharp enough mind, but are lacking in the wisdom to understand what's really going on here.

 

[shadow skill]

Changing the argument and then claiming victory doesn't really mean much of anything. Let me guess you figured out how stupid your original comment was and decided to alter your argument to make it even more nebulous than before?

I already explained how I changed nothing. You're wasting considerable quote space in re-quoting an entire message where all I did was add a clarifying paragraph at the end. I reserve the right to clarify my points all I want, if you don't like it: tough.

I also explained how I argued about nothing. Your continued belief that this is occurring nonetheless only establishes how deeply deluded and/or unable to read you are.

I particularly find it amusing about how you believe I'm "claiming victory." It offers a window into your mind that there's an epic debate going on here. There is not.

Furthermore, even if there was a debate going on here, it seems you don't know how to have one. You ignored everything I told you and tried to shift gears to something that has nothing to do with what I said. To take a phrase out of your quote: "let me guess." You were so abysmally in the dark you couldn't even begin to address what I said, and so decided to try to discredit me instead?

What's this then?

[http://omploader.org/vM256aw]

It's a screenshot of a message you failed to understand.

The text if you don't feel like clicking the picture:

As far as straw man tactics go I've seen a lot better than that.

That's not a straw man tactic. It's an overenthusiastic expression of exasperation that you misinterpreted my message.

Which failed.

Granted, this shouldn't surprise me. As as been my experience of forums, if someone didn't bother to read and understand what I wrote the first time, they won't bother no matter how many times I repeat myself.

The two games may be of the same genre but the similarities pretty much end there for the most part. And let's not forget that story and characters are important parts to factor in too. And a key word here is "seems". It would be nice if you could reserve passing judgement until after the game has actually been released and has had a chance to prove it's worth to the gaming community.

To clarify, the reason I mentioned Devil May Cry isn't because the game is better or worse than God Of War but rather because Devil May Cry did the genre first.

Again, that you chose to interpret this as me judging anything is wrong. I'm guessing you're chomping at the bit to get back into some long gone Devil May Cry vrs God Of War thread. I've some bad news there:

[Jedi Wave] this is not the Devil May Cry vs God Of War post you are looking for.

You clearly mention genre and then claim you didn't. When called on it you suggest that you are talking about game experiences when you clearly state that your reasoning has everything to do with the fact (According to you.) that DMC was the first in it's genre. You don't get to change your argument the moment someone calls you on it and declare victory.

You're right, I did use the word "genre."

I'm sorry that the word mislead you so heavily. I didn't expect to run into anyone so dense as to hear "genre" and immediately think "Kung Fu Master is the same kind of game as Devil May Cry."

There you go with your "declare victory" nonsense again.

What are you? 16? Stop debating with people twice your age. You lack the wisdom to understand what's going on.

Awwww trying to pull age because you have been caught either lying or woefully unaware of the words you type? How cute. You presume to talk to me about wisdom while you are seemingly unaware of the words you are using? That is rich!

 

[geldonyetich]

Awwww trying to pull age because you have been caught either lying or woefully unaware of the words you type? How cute. You presume to talk to me about wisdom while you are seemingly unaware of the words you are using? That is rich!

Nailed it, I see.

Go bother somebody else, kid, I'm tired of having you biting at my ankles because you thought I was implying things I wasn't.

 

[shadow skill]

Awwww trying to pull age because you have been caught either lying or woefully unaware of the words you type? How cute. You presume to talk to me about wisdom while you are seemingly unaware of the words you are using? That is rich!

Nailed it, I see.

Go bother somebody else, kid, I'm tired of having you biting at my ankles because you thought I was implying things I wasn't.

You keep telling yourself that I'm just a kid. (Notice how I have only used what you have posted here rather than to try and guess your age?) It doesn't explain how you apparently can't even remember that you expressly claimed that Devil May Cry was the first game in the beat em up genre when it is factually not so. You were the one who decided to go from your expressly stated reasoning towards the nebulous gaming experience (which is still defined by genre.) You are the one unable to grasp that there is in fact a difference between saying you are tired of a specific game's formula vs the genre it belongs to.

 

[geldonyetich]

You keep telling yourself that I'm just a kid. It doesn't explain how you apparently can't even remember that you expressly claimed that Devil May Cry was the first game in the beat em up genre when it factually is not so.

LOL! Oh, my sides, you are SO deluded right now.

Frankly, I question my own wisdom that I've wasted so many minutes of my life talking to someone who believes they can tell a writer what they wrote. That is a little piece of insanity that only you can cure yourself of.

You're on ignore. You can interpret this as me running away if you like. Truth of the matter is I am a dreadful procrastinator and I've wasted far too much time on you.

 

[shadow skill]

You keep telling yourself that I'm just a kid. It doesn't explain how you apparently can't even remember that you expressly claimed that Devil May Cry was the first game in the beat em up genre when it factually is not so.

LOL! Oh, my sides, you are SO deluded right now.

Frankly, I question my own wisdom that I've wasted so many minutes of my life talking to someone who believes they can tell a writer what they wrote. That is a little piece of insanity that only you can cure yourself of.

You're on ignore. You can interpret this as me running away if you like. Truth of the matter is I am a dreadful procrastinator and I've wasted far too much time on you.

How about you explain to all of us here how Street Fighter and Soul Calibur are not fighting games based on the same logic you use to claim that Kung Fu Master and Devil May Cry are not beat em ups/hack and slash games.

 

[RanmaYagami]

I find it kind of funny that I checked to see if there was a new ZP right after playing Dante's Inferno on a friend's 360, and lo and behold, ZP was on DI.

This game seems to me to be what would happen if God of War and Devil May Cry got together and had a mentally-handicapped child. It's not a bad game, but it's rip-off readings are off the chart. What's worse is - and I'm sure Yahtzee said this but I simply didn't catch it while I was watching - that it doesn't even feel like they really read the poem this is supposed to be based off of, they just read the cliff-notes or something.

 

[shadow skill]

I actually think the fact that this game was so expertly cloned is a testament to Visceral's technical skill. Ironically this makes the fact that Dante's Inferno is such a blatant clone even sadder because Visceral's skill has been wasted on a game that is going to be all but forgotten in about four weeks.