Zero Punctuation: E3 2010

[Alex Simpson]

nice song

also i was going to mention something about how you didn't talk about portal 2 & Kid Icarus: Uprising, but it seems i've been beaten to it. nice job with Other M though, i love metroid

 

[solidstatemind]

I like how all the RMM lovers try to project themselves as the enlightened upper-class. Keep your noses up, guys! They'll grow on your foreheads one of these days!

Huh. If I'm somehow projecting myself as 'the enlightened upper-class' because I think that calling someone a 'whiney *****' and 'opinionated whore' is less a legitimate criticism than an immature schoolyard insult, then I suppose I can only say: guilty as charged! (If you'll note, most of the outrage on this thread isn't because people dislike the song so much as the way they expressed their dislike. Don't believe me? Go reread the thread: the people getting called out aren't the ones saying stuff like "I don't like her music really; the chorus was repetitive and grating", it's the retards people saying "WAHHHHH! I HTOUGHT I GOT SUPRE-SIZED ZP, BUT FUCK YOU ESCAPIST FOR PROMOTING A TALENTLESS ***** INSTEAD!" who are getting slammed.)

And when the nose grows on my forehead, for irony's sake, I'll cover it with a fucking HORN and start calling myself a Unicorn.

Oh, and finally, to answer the opinionated humming-vague-attempt-at-singing person's question at the end: "Yes, in a free world, it is okay". And as an opinionated person myself, I'd like to state that trying to leech off another person's success in an attempt to boost your own fame is a sad, parasitic and regrettable practice. If it's such a problem for you, why not voicing your opinion to Yahtzee in private rather than publicly, for all to see?

Uh, you don't get it, do you? This isn't Ms. Mayes 'leeching' off of Yahtzee; this was a promotion most likely devised by the Escapist staff to generate attention (and hopefully pageviews) for another feature on their website by leveraging a connection with one of their most popular features. Also, promotion of this song has been ongoing for about the last month, so it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone who has spent any time whatsoever on the Escapist. Even fans who only come here for Yahtzee's stuff probably knew about it, since he twittered about it.

But really... the arrogance of casting aspersions on someone else's motives in a public forum without even having the sense to do a little research is simply staggering.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

In fact, let's turn off our critical faculties altogether! Whenever anything dull, crap or irrelevant gets shoehorned into a program, let's just blandly praise it instead. That way, everyone will be happy, because everything will be 'good'. Except when it isn't. Then it will be terrible, but rewarded as warmly as genuine talent and industry.

Okay, you got me. Nice use of reducto ad absurdum, there, to make the defense of someone trying something new and different creatively when other content might be becoming staid, stagnant, bland and/or formula into completely unwarranted fan-wank.

Most of the Mayes-apologists seem to be missing the point of a 'forum', and discussion in general. Forums exist to discuss things, not to one-sidedly praise all and sundry slavishly. Doing so would only dilute the effect of sincere praise anyways - and, to be frank, when you release work to the public, the implication is that you are as ready for the flak as you are for the commendation.

It's true. As Yahtzee himself said, criticism is a force for good and it's not something that should be feared. However, I'm not seeing a great deal of actual criticism of Miss Mayes' work. Okay, you didn't like the song she wrote for Yahtzee. Why didn't you like it? Did it not follow the right sort of melodic flow for your ears? Was there not enough guitar? Did she not sound enough like Justin Beiber or Lady Gaga or whatever kind of music happens to be your particular favorite?

The problem with criticism is that it tends to be largely subjective. I happen to like Rebecca Mayes and her music. Do I expect everybody else to like it, or her? No. That's unrealistic. The free-flowing torrent of absolute, baseless hatred flowing at the not!Yahtzee portion of this ZP is just staggering, to me, and I reacted to it. I'm allowed to have reactions. I'm also allowed to voice my opinion, just as much as you are yours.

TL,DR: Remember opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and they all stink.

[sub]Mine might stink most of all, I'm seeing a doctor about it, shut up.[/sub]

It's a silly idea anyhow. Human beings are consensus creatures. We simply do not feel comfortable seeing something praised that we do not believe deserves it - we want to affirm our beliefs, and make sure praise is only meted out in a just and appropriate manner.

By 'affirm our beliefs,' I will once again quote Yahtzee and say that what I think you mean by that is 'level up [our] Internet cocks.' I don't know about you, but I struggle to get aroused if I'm not defending my point of view in front of a bunch of strangers.

The real issue is one The Escapist has always faced: ZP is the only decent video content on this site, with perhaps the exception of Unskippable. The Escapist needs to face up to this, and stop trying to crowbar in content we've never had an interest in, nor ever will.

Right. Because innovation is something that should never be explored. We should just stick with what we know works and never take a chance on anything, ever. It's a scary thought, taking a risk. Forget the very notion of discovering anything new or interesting and putting it where people can experience it, for good or for ill.

 

[jack_hectic]

there is one song that represents all my feelings for this thread right now.

than again, who cares about my feelings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG5TQQj-i_4

 

[Dragoro7]

Way to alienate everyone who isn't in on it with that song at the end.

 

[Twilight.falls]

Yahtzee sums up my view on almost all of E3. I only disagree with the 3DS being a gimmick. It seems far too impressive to be labeled a gimmick.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

there is one song that represents all my feelings for this thread right now.

than again, who cares about my feelings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG5TQQj-i_4

Honestly, I was more reminded of Tool's "Hooker with a Penis". But Everclear works, too.

 

[Anorgil]

Yahtzee did say that Portal 1 was "absolutely sublime from start to finish, and I will jam forks into my eyes if I ever use those words to describe anything else ever again."

In the first place, Yahtzee generally doesn't like sequels. In the second place, even if Portal 2 turns out to be an exception, and just as sublime as Portal 1 was, do you really want him to jam forks into his eyes?

 

[Hallow'sEve]

"Kinectanimals is the most terrifying box art I've seen all year. It's like if John wayne gacy worked at Disneyland"

LOL! That was a really good one, haha.
Surprised he didn't mention Twisted Metal, thought that'd be up his alley.
BTW, doesn't Yahtzee know that the 3DS has a slider that lets you control the 3D effect? You don't have to have it on if you don't want. I know that makes it sounds even more gimmicky than ever, but at least Nintendo is giving you a choice. And wasn't there a vid on this very site that showed what the 3DS would be like?

Oh, and that song at the end was GOD AWFUL.
I was excited to see the video was 8 min, I was like, "YES!! 8 MIN OF YAHTZEE! THIS'LL BE GREAT!!"
but no, that didn't happen, did it?

 

[WaderiAAA]

Even better than last years E3 hype massacre.

 

[Knoxy]

Forums exist to discuss things, not to one-sidedly praise all and sundry slavishly.

Said the man posting in the thread of 250+ posts, 90% of which read "Yay Yahtzee! Your videos are so good and funny! This was the best one yet!"... and this happens every flipping week. I think we're past the point where we can believe in any sort of logical system of quality control on the net.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

I disagree about the 3DS being a gimmick. It's actually a really powerful handheld device rivaling the power of the PSP and the 3D doesn't require glasses, so I don't understand why you put glasses on everyone in the video. You ARE just grumpy that you couldn't go to E3. Poor Yahtzee.

 

[Devlin Usher]

wow that was horrible, really freken bad. I watch Zero punctuation for a fun and clever ways to use the english language for funny ways to poke fun at games. it just wasn't their

Your horrible typing is a funny way to use the English language. Too bad there's nothing clever about it. It only serves to prove that you're likely laughing even harder than the rest of us because you have no idea what Yahtzee is even saying.

 

[g3n3ricusername]

I did not like this one nearly as much as others. I thought it was dull. The only joke I found particularly funny was the one about the wasp, and even that one fell kind of flat. Also, he went on and on about the motion controllers. I get it, they suck.

Also, maybe everyone had not seen that music video. I hadn't. I found it to be mediocre, but the level of abuse poor miss mayes is receiving in this thread is appalling. What did she ever do to you? Do you say these things about every singer you do not like? No one made you watch it, but then you ***** about it like someone did.

I was a tad confused, as I thought this was supposed to be a love song, not a I-want-to-kill-you-with-a-screwdriver song. However, I did find it somewhat amusing, maybe I am looking at it the wrong way, but it seems that most of the haters did not 'get' it.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Why didn't you like it? Did it not follow the right sort of melodic flow for your ears? Was there not enough guitar? Did she not sound enough like Justin Beiber or Lady Gaga or whatever kind of music happens to be your particular favorite?

The problem with criticism is that it tends to be largely subjective. I happen to like Rebecca Mayes and her music. Do I expect everybody else to like it, or her? No. That's unrealistic. The free-flowing torrent of absolute, baseless hatred flowing at the not!Yahtzee portion of this ZP is just staggering, to me, and I reacted to it. I'm allowed to have reactions. I'm also allowed to voice my opinion, just as much as you are yours.

TL,DR: Remember opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and they all stink.

So basically if we don't like it, you expect a long drawn out exposition as to why. Fair enough.

I didn't like it because while her voice is nice, the song pushed me into the uncanny valley of not getting it. Her styling smacks of banal pop that is done better elsewhere. It isn't anything I haven't heard before and heard better at that. Before you ask, I dislike most, if not all pop.

I also wouldn't call it innovation and defending it as such is intellectually dishonest. She is singing either about what she likes, experiences, or dislikes... Like nearly every other song in existence.

I also wouldn't call ZP innovative either. Yahtzee is talking about his opinion, not exactly magic there either. I just happen to like the charm of it.

As for using ZP to give Rebecca extra coverage, fuck that. I have already been exposed to her work and haven't gone back since. Being what feels like tricked into watching it again just breeds contempt.

Finally, as for the song itself, it reminded me all too much of the "exgirlfriend or angry stalker getting back at their target of rage" vibe, which is all too uncomfortable for me on a personal level. It feels like I am watching two people having a tiff in public except I am only seeing one side of it and thus have no perspective. All I have is the fact that I am technically a fan of Yahtzee and I have no truffing idea what this chic is on about.

The screwdriver at the end just cemented that whole vibe for me. If it is a joke, I don't get the punchline as it feels too "inside" for me. If it isn't a joke, I am perplexed at the point of it all.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Placing that song at the end only cements my belief that the song itself was a pathetic attempt at upping Muses's viewership. I don't know if Yahtzee himself is involved, but I have a feeling that we won't be seeing any real response by Yahtzee himself that is negative against it.

If thats the way things are going to go fine, but if anything it makes me LESS interested in Rebecca Mayes if she has to go about something like this to stir up interest. In fact, I'll probably go as far as to AVOID anything of hers from this point on because I'm not that partial to 'shock marketing'.

Worse, the addition of this video feels like it short changed us on a really good Zero Punctuation. E3 is the biggest event of the year and so i feel that Yahtzee should have had a special Zero Punctuation to accompany it.

 

[solidstatemind]

I'm going to try to clear this up for you people who seem to be unable to grasp the concept:
the issue isn't one of criticism. Criticism is fine. The issue is that many, many people here are insulting rather than criticizing, and then trying to claim that their 'opinion' is somehow legitimate.

Look, somebody a few pages back said he HATES Rebecca Mayes. He thinks she isn't that creative, saying that her lyrics are weak, and her choruses are both redundant and grating as examples of why he doesn't like her music.

I'm fine with that. I don't agree, but that's just me.

andsoitgoes said above: "Egads... that song was terrible. No offense, is it okay? No way."

Now, to me, that's more of an opinion than a criticism, since it doesn't actually mention any specifics-- but still, this is an open forum, and people are entitled to their opinion, so I'm cool with it.

But the tone of those comments are unfortunately the exceptions, not the rule. I have seen far more people say stuff like "oh my God; that woman is a talentless *****" or calling her "an opinionated whore".

In Logic, it's called argumentum ad hominem, but I prefer to call it being an immature asshole. There is no justification for it; it simply is a person being insulting and degrading to another person because they enjoy the anonymity of the Internet and can be as rude and unpleasant as they wish without any repercussions. The only way to redress their actions is to confront them, which is what some of us are doing.

So NO, it's not about everybody being shiny, happy people and saying only nice things about everything. It's about maintaining a level of civility and reason in the subjects we discuss. Why is this important? Because if everyone is not held to this standard, every single dispute will devolve into name-calling, which gets tedious very rapidly. Every. Single. One.

So yeah, if you have a problem with me taking people to task about being immature and insulting, you'd better just put me on ignore right now, because I'm not going to stop.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

So basically if we don't like it, you expect a long drawn out exposition as to why. Fair enough.

-long drawn out exposition snipped-

Thank you. Seriously, I have a better understanding of where you and apparently quite a few others are coming from. I don't necessarily agree with you on Rebecca's style, as a few of her songs feel less pop-flavored and more experimental, but opinions are what they are. ZP does have a lot of charm, but Yahtzee's opinion is no more or less valid than any other critics' out there. He's just more clever in his presentation.

Again, thank you for giving a well thought-out response to a legitimate question.

I'm going to try to clear this up for you people who seem to be unable to grasp the concept:
the issue isn't one of criticism. Criticism is fine. The issue is that many, many people here are insulting rather than criticizing, and then trying to claim that their 'opinion' is somehow legitimate.

Look, somebody a few pages back said he HATES Rebecca Mayes. He thinks she isn't that creative, saying that her lyrics are weak, and her choruses are both redundant and grating as examples of why he doesn't like her music.

I'm fine with that. I don't agree, but that's just me.

andsoitgoes said above: "Egads... that song was terrible. No offense, is it okay? No way."

Now, to me, that's more of an opinion than a criticism, since it doesn't actually mention any specifics-- but still, this is an open forum, and people are entitled to their opinion, so I'm cool with it.

But the tone of those comments are unfortunately the exceptions, not the rule. I have seen far more people say stuff like "oh my God; that woman is a talentless *****" or calling her "an opinionated whore".

In Logic, it's called argumentum ad hominem, but I prefer to call it being an immature asshole. There is no justification for it; it simply is a person being insulting and degrading to another person because they enjoy the anonymity of the Internet and can be as rude and unpleasant as they wish without any repercussions. The only way to redress their actions is to confront them, which is what some of us are doing.

So NO, it's not about everybody being shiny, happy people and saying only nice things about everything. It's about maintaining a level of civility and reason in the subjects we discuss. Why is this important? Because if everyone is not held to this standard, every single dispute will devolve into name-calling, which gets tedious very rapidly. Every. Single. One.

So yeah, if you have a problem with me taking people to task about being immature and insulting, you'd better just put me on ignore right now, because I'm not going to stop.

Didn't bother snipping this, because you went directly after what bugs me about a lot of the bile in this thread. Don't stop. Let people ignore you.

 

[OisinDeBrun]

*sigh* :/ .. like many other thought i was in for an extra long yahtzee but insted :/ just got.... that...

 

[discdeath]

I must say, when I saw the credits coming on halfway through, I was expecting them to suddenly stop and for Yahtzee to shout "WTF!! PORTAL 2!!!", but instead I got the song. Don't get me wrong, I quite liked the song, but I've been waiting for Yahtzee to say something about Portal 2 for a while now. He must know about it, and it can't be simply that "sequels are shit, so I will not talk about the sequel to this awesome game", as he himself has admitted that if anyone can make a good sequel, then it's VALVe. Although maybe he's just holding off to taunt us. Or, there's always the chance that the rumours that he's one of the Beta Testers for it are true, and that he's sworn to secrecy on it. Who knows?