Zero Punctuation: Enemy Front & Valiant Hearts: The Great War

[Aardvaarkman]

When you get married, do you call her your "first wife" when introducing her to friends?

I'm sure that some people would, probably as a dark joke.

But you're changing the topic. The fact that most people don't refer to their wife in this way is based on the (unrealistic) conceit that marriage is a one-off thing that lasts forever. War is a different matter. Most people with any sense know that there will always be more wars. And you're not offending war by saying there will be more.

War is more like a new car than a wife. When you buy your first car, it's very exciting, and it is very notable that it's your first car. But almost nobody who buys their first car thinks that it will be the only car they ever own.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Excellent review, and Yahtzee's summation on World War I is quite entertaining. Incidentally, why aren't there more games based on the first World War? Because it's not as interesting as the second? That's unfair, isn't it?

 

[Chicago Ted]

I enjoy this show but Yahtzee really needs to get off the fucking soap box.

Seriously, when he starts going on about "Right Wingers" and "Conservatives" it's just painful. Use 'em as a punchline for a joke, that's good, can easily be laughed at. Going off for a minute long strawman though isn't at all entertaining and turns the thread associated into a cesspit. Not to mention it ruins the tone of the rest of the video.

To sum up, some funny bits but ultimately ruined by getting far too political far too quickly. Not an episode of ZP I will probably go back to rewatch.

 

[Miles Maldonado]

Excellent review, and Yahtzee's summation on World War I is quite entertaining. Incidentally, why aren't there more games based on the first World War? Because it's not as interesting as the second? That's unfair, isn't it?

Everyone assumes World War I = Trenches. This was really only the case on the French front, as the Eastern Front was very mobile and the African front was anything but static trenches save for a few around forts. I'm not entirely sure about the fighting in the Middle East, though.

 

[Theodwulf]

Yahtzee,
What's with the hate toward Americans, Conservative Americans and Tea Partiers? It seems to be the fluff you add on many of your reviews. American Conservatives and Tea Partiers have never done any wrong to you or the nations you have a direct connection to. If anything We like both the UK and Australia and have nothing bad to say about either (other than not wanting to live there)and in the past have given far more than we have gotten back (ironically enough, the two little skirmishes featured in the games you reviewed.) .

If Americans wanted to change our Constitution to eliminate or lessen the right of individual gun ownership, we could, BUT we don't, nor is there any movement to amend our Constitution to that end. An overwhelming number of Americans of BOTH parties want it to stay as it is. The much demonized NRA, has millions of members that are politically active citizens, that's why they are very strong. If people don't like the supreme law of our land then change it within the structure provided in the supreme law of the land. You're a foreign national, you don't get a say, worry about your own countries.

I don't stick my nose into the political affairs of the UK or Australia. If I did I would get more informed than not at all. I don't criticize the Euro-trash's complete inability to defend themselves or how they never stop looking to the US with their hat in hand. If you really want to show some contempt (and some character) stop taking our money and our protection.

Love your most of your work

 

[Miles Maldonado]

Theodwulf, I acknowledge that you felt the need to say something, but the past few pages have been almost nothing but gun debates that completely ignore the fact that the games industry might be moving in a new direction with their games about war.

I mean no offense, but many people have already argued about it and it is tiresome to be buried beneath debates on either side when I'm trying to talk about GAMES instead of the content creator's political views.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

A game about WWI? What an interesting twist. Maybe even interesting enough to be worth checking out. I think it even got a recommendation.

really? you are blaming school shootings on gun control?

No, he's saying that because people oppose gun control so violently, we haven't been able to effectively stop them.

mental illness is the cause of the shootings.

I think the gun helps, you know.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Yahtzee,
What's with the hate toward Americans, Conservative Americans and Tea Partiers? It seems to be the fluff you add on many of your reviews. American Conservatives and Tea Partiers have never done any wrong to you or the nations you have a direct connection to. If anything We like both the UK and Australia and have nothing bad to say about either (other than not wanting to live there)and in the past have given far more than we have gotten back (ironically enough, the two little skirmishes featured in the games you reviewed.) .

I guess you missed the part where American "conservatives" screwed with the world economy, and other countries were dragged into insane wars with Iraq and Afghanistan under George Bush, and had many of their citizens killed in combat trying to help America?

Meanwhile, in the current situation, these so-called "conservatives" and Tea Partiers also threaten to undermine any kind of international diplomacy or security. America being a highly influential nation internationally, the dumbing-down of political discourse in the USA absolutely has negative repercussions for other countries.

 

[drschplatt]

It would be nice if Yahtzee would just stick to video games, which he seems to know a little bit about and leave politics alone which he has proved over and over again that he knows crap all about. I don't come here and ***** about Australian or British politics, I come here for video game news, not political ignorance and BS being spewed. Stick to something you know about.

 

[floppylobster]

He raises an interesting point. Given that we have so many war games out there, why ISN'T the First World War depicted more often?

Many reasons, but quite possibly because it so rarely depicted in film. And most video game makers seem content in ripping off various scenes from famous films as a basis for most of their levels.

 

[Dragonbums]

EDIT: Wrong thread please delete.

 

[Maurdekye]

Did anybody else hear seagulls? Because I heard seagulls.

 

[Bestival]

I see this thread ending badly.

He raises an interesting point. Given that we have so many war games out there, why ISN'T the First World War depicted more often?

I would imagine it's due to the trench warfare employed so much during that war being too difficult to turn into entertaining gameplay. There's one of 2 scenarios: you man a machine gun and simply mow down people as they come out of the trenches, or you're on the other side, running through the onslaught, praying a bullet doesn't rearrange your brains.

BlackAdder the Fourth: The Game.


It could work you know, sit in a trench bunker with 2 morons, coming up with insane schemes to get the fuck out of there.

 

[deathjavu]

really? you are blaming school shootings on gun control?

Gun control in America has been tried and every single time it has made gun violence in that area even worse. *cough*Chicago*cough* And you wonder why we oppose it?

[link:http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/]Somehow The Onion continues to have the most incisive news commentary of any news source, despite being a joke newspaper. [/link]

There is literally no debate on gun control in the US that can sidestep the fact that this just doesn't happen in other rich countries, and you have to go to somewhere in the middle of a war to find these levels of gun violence.

Clearly there's something that could (and is) being done in other rich countries that is not being done in the US. One such thing is relatively strict gun controls. Another thing is government provided or regulated healthcare. Take your pick, the US is clearly fucking up somehow.

I watched a stream of someone playing Valiant Hearts and was utterly expecting a complete bastard of a heart tugger as soon as they introduced a dog. Dogs as companions only ever make it into serious stories to die horribly.

And they were still relatively light and cutesy enough for long enough that the eventual sadness was a punch in the dick.

He raises an interesting point. Given that we have so many war games out there, why ISN'T the First World War depicted more often?

Many reasons, but quite possibly because it so rarely depicted in film. And most video game makers seem content in ripping off various scenes from famous films as a basis for most of their levels.

The film angle is an interesting one, but it just passes the question along- why is it not ever in films?

I think Yahtzee was approximately correct, it's mainly because WW1 lacks the moral simplicty of WW2. It's not heroic or admirable or honorable or anything else. Barely any land was conquered or lost, as the trench lines solidified into impassible barriers, so it wasn't even exciting. Hell, even the deathcount wasn't that impressive, as it was passed midway through by the 1918 flu epidemic (although the lowered hygiene standards and mass personnel movements of the war certainly made the flu epidemic worse).

WW1 just isn't an easy mark for a story because it lacks all the elements of simple stories. Even something as simple as how it came about devolves into a complex morass of treaties and alliances and historical grudges.

 

[Second World]

I would imagine it's due to the trench warfare employed so much during that war being too difficult to turn into entertaining gameplay. There's one of 2 scenarios: you man a machine gun and simply mow down people as they come out of the trenches, or you're on the other side, running through the onslaught, praying a bullet doesn't rearrange your brains.

Is it bad that I read this as; "hey, you could make a bullet hell shooter set in World War I, someone should totally do that"?

To be honest, with the heavy rise of reactionary AI, I'd be interested if the idea were picked up by a popular game studio. While most games nowadays have set enemy starting points coupled with densely cause-and-effect AI that respond to your location/actions (to make gameplay semi-similar to the atrocity of on-line play and "reality") or AI that's about as interesting as a pop-up book, I'd love to see a revival of challenging "puzzles and patterns" type games like Battletoads, Contra, and maybe Portal (for lack of a better Puzzler.)

Giving AI more difficult and complex patterns over the course of a game (thus rewarding completion rather than scavenger hunting) doesn't really happen anymore. Now, you basically coast through the same general difficulty (eventually resulting in dealing with more and more enemies,) and nothing other than graphics stands out during the experience.

If Demon/Dark Souls could achieve astonishing popularity as of late, I imagine that a shiny new take on Bullet Hell could gain surprising popularity (if it doesn't result in games that look and play like those out-dated "pilot a spaceship or plane as we scroll our way through heavy fire" games.) Putting a unique take on it in a popular war setting would probably pull in your typical first-person shooter nuts and gain popularity for the genre (if it's done by a big game studio and not just an indie group.)