Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[Malazar]

I must admit, I wasn't expecting an EvE review, simply because it's been out donky's years, however, I found this video to be most ammusing. not the funniest review so far, however, that may be partly because I was actually thinking "Hm, actually, that's a fair point".

Still, I like eve (yeah, shush), at the same time as agreeing with pretty much everything that was said. 14 days of the trial is, in many ways, not enough to see it all, but, as long as you're staying in the regular zones, it certainly is, and let's face it, the deep space wild-west stuff is far too time consuming anyway. This is a flaw with reviews of MMOs - you can't possibly review everything - there's not enough time, and it would be unfair to expect anyone to dedicate enough time to review the whole game, the best that can be done is a pretty good overview of most of the content.

job done. and looking forward to the next game to be demolished
(here's hoping spore gets done eventually, because, frankly, i'm sick of hearing that it's the best thing since sliced bread - and that's before the full game was released - there must be something wrong with it?)

 

[sabotstarr]

ya i almost joined eve......but then i saw that you had to download it...which ment that it sucked too much to get a giant production quota for disks.....and not a nice easy game that you can play off the internet....

 

[Tibike77]

[...]The worst part about it is that the cruiser, while being bigger, has a harder time than a smaller ship, the destroyer, at blowing up frigates due to the whole speed issue. And while you could equip it with larger weapons, the weapons also were slower tracking that made it just not worth using a cruiser in the trial(unless there is some sort of shortcut to get to the level 2 mission givers that I don't know about).

Actually, there is
More precisely, there are two ways.

First and simplest way ?
Train "Social" to level 3 (should take between 3 and 8 hours tops, depending on school and attributes), some starter choices already have that trained, the rest will have to buy the skill (it's cheap as dirt anyway, around 18k ISK)... after that buy and train "Connections" (this one you certainly don't already have) to at least level 2 (that would be just a couple of hours, tops), preferably level 3. This skill is slightly less cheap, but still affordable (somewhere around 180k ISK - don't confuce it with any of the " Connections" which are good for something else and cost 15-20 mil ISK a piece).
With Connections trained to L2 (or L3), you should have access to some (or most, if you train to level 3) of the "Level 2 agents" almost instantly.

Second (needs social interaction) way ?
Ask an older (and very friendly) player to take you with him on a L3 or L4 mission, and "split" the standings gains at the end.
A single L4 standings split is worth more than a dozen L1 missions with regards to standings.
You can even gain access to L4 agents in your first day this way... but you'd have to repay him somehow, because he just did you a HUGE favor.

 

[Donrad]

hehe i loved this review ^^
for some reason it felt... too short?

 

[WarlockD]

Tried to get my friend into Eve, but the only time the game IS fun is with a player run corp out in space. But then it starts getting drama filled.

He is right, its a game for nerds by nerds. I think what describes is best is how my friend put it. "Its like one big SQL database where people swap numbers."

 

[shaun832]

It seemed kinda awkward since I was watching it with the Eve Online advertisement sitting right next to it, staring at me, mocking me.

 

[007murdoc]

whats a good RPG or MMORPG you would recomend

 

[Sir_Substance]

i was watching this while playing EVE.

first, i cant argue with anything you said in there. the interface is horrible, the mechanics of combat are no different to other MMO's.

but, i find it endlessly compelling. ive been playing for about a year now, and i still love it. by not joining a corp, you have let the eve experience run right by you though. the corps you've seen on the eve forums arnt the kind of corp id go for, i prefer a more casual bunch, like the lot im with now.

anyway, in all honesty, i dont think your the kind of person for eve. its a love it-hate it game. i very much like the skill training system, because it means i dont have to play ALL the time, like other MMO's, to stay competitive.

but also, 14 days isnt really enough for you to get some of the finer details of the game under your belt. hell, i regularly spend longer then 14 days training for a skill. eve is a long term game.

 

[Xennith]

This review was really interesting to me, while maintaining the entertainment quality I have come to expect from watching Zero Punctuation reviews.

What confuses me is that during the Age of Conan review, Yahtzee specifically mentions that an MMO, practically by definition, should be about going out and smashing faces WITH OTHER PEOPLE. Despite this, his approach to playing EVE online was decidedly introverted and resulted in exactly the result that anyone who has played EVE for any extended period of time would expect.

After having played EVE for a little over a year now, I can wholeheartedly agree with most of the negative assessments that are commonly brought to bear against EVE:
- It's so huge that it's unapproachable.
- The playerbase is a bunch of bloodthirsty wankers.
- Accomplishing anything takes abnormally huge amounts of time.
- The gameplay is complicated and grudgingly slow at the best of times.
- Did we mention the WANKERS.

In the end, just about any MMO you play, at the highest level, is going to be like having a second job. By nature, the genre focuses on long-term play of the title until you've reached the upper limit of character development, then going back and repeating the parts of the game you personally find entertaining over and over again.
EVE Online tries to differ from this by making the whole game repetitive and boring when you look at the gameplay, but removes the glass ceiling, as it were, from character advancement, allowing a player to continually grow his experience in the game for YEARS, if he so chooses, and executes it in a fashion that doesn't wholly absorb your life.
Sure, there are always going to be the players in a game's community that do nothing but play the game every waking hour while fondling themselves to the thought of how hardcore they are, but at least with EVE the character advancement can be done in the background while you go on about your normal life of being a human being, or, like many people, while you go and play other video games. This leaves the time you spend actually playing the game for the quest for fame, fortune and glory rather than killing the same bunnies, wolves, and spiders over and over again... although a player can still do that in EVE if they want to, but any MMO is going to be like that.
At least with EVE it's not the all consuming necessity to simply play it for hours with no end, but still manages to provide incentives for long-term play that allow you to continually expand your experiences in the universe into a variety of expanding and equally boring fields.

Then, there is the be-all-end-all of EVE hatred: The people in it. The whining, obsessive, violent and misogynistic populous which would rather stick it to their fellow man than work constructively with everyone else in the world, which is NOTHING like how the real world works... right? RIGHT!?
In the end, I have to agree with the complaint that players in EVE, on average, don't give a damn that the damage you inflict on other players is actually creating a deficit to their potential enjoyment of the game and that it actually destroys whatever amount of time they spent in the universe acquiring their ship.
As awful as it is to my better judgment, players like to suspend their morality when they play a game with a perceived intent, and too many EVE players assume that BECAUSE YOU CAN kill other players any time you want, the objective of the game is to do so, and doing so in now way represents you as a gigantic flaming bunghead.
In reality, the game should be about doing whatever you want, but it should also encourage you to apply ethics and compassion... but nobody seems to see the fun in that. HOORAY FOR KILLING.

tl;dr - Judgement was accurate. Should really have tried being part of a corp. God, EVE players are dicks.

 

[Shaamaan_Old]

Y'know, I think a lot of people forget that Yahtzee approaches a game from a particular angle, with a particular goal in mind: Enjoyable, thoughtful entertainment that you can get into quickly, without depending on a lot of other people to make the whole thing fun.(...)

I've cut the quote not to spam. But Wolf got it spot on!

 

[keyton777]

[NSFW]

Too lazy to read all of this, but for anyone who wanted the "delightful porn" mentioned in the video go here: "http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Yahtzee".

Scroll about halfway down the page and-BAM!-there it is on the right.

[/NSFW]

out of curiostity i took a look at that site and i came accross something in the durnk idiot that made that description of ZP.........i could swear he was a pretentious dick.....and the funny part was he reminded me of yahtzee in a (forgive the EXTREAMLY nerdy reference but its the only one that comes to mind) drizzt/entreri kinda way

 

[martianman]

Pretty much sums up what I think of MMO's. I don't see the point in them, but there you go, it appears a lot of people do.

Also, if we are the choir, shouldn't we be singing? Maybe someone should come up with lyrics for the themetune.

♪Zero puctiation, he is usu-al-a-lee,
funnier, funnier tha-a-a-a-n youuuuuu,
So sto-o-o-o-o-p tellin' him how to do-o-o- his joooooooob♪

Topic: Nice, but no where near your best work.

btw, would you mind reviewing Spore when it comes out?(yes, the irony was the point of the song)

 

[zbobet2012]

Funny review, very per the usual yahtzee. That said not joining a player corp or at least joining one of the factional warfare gangs is like playing chess by yourself...

 

[Chocolate Source]

Loved - "They're to nerds what nerds are to normal people"

And it's true, the EvE communitys very elitist and think those who don't "get" eve should have the privilege of playing the game taken away immediatly.
The trial's pretty silly as you can only really start playing the game properly after a couple of months.....which is also pretty silly.

 

[paliente]

I played this game for 30 mins and then uninstalled it. Very spot-on review

 

[Jumpman]

the problem with reviewing an MMORPG is that since the social aspect is such a big part of its appeal, different people will have different expereiences based on the kind of people they meet and interact with. without the social interaction there isn't much point to them. Even WOW, the reigning king of MMORPGS is little more than a dozen or so quests continually recycled. can you imagine if the Elder Scrolls Oblivion had that little variety? People would crucify it!

So while I was certainly entertained (as always) by Yahtzee's review, I cant help but think it was sorta pointless aside from his critiques on the controls and general intuitiveness of the game. Here's hoping he reviews a more universally similar game next week.

 

[PegasusJF]

Another Eve vet.

Mr. Yahtzee.

I do concede some of your points. The PVE for EVE Online could be improved to be more on par with it's comtemporaires. Mining, love it or hate it, is not as exciting as other games, but I personally like it, and I've heard it compared to fishing.

The skill system is also another love it or hate it system. Personally, I would be appalled to have to train for cap ships the normal way.

For the combat system, keep in mind that this game was made before broadband was widespread, and was meant to be accessible for modems. Despite its simplicity at first glance, it does have its intricacies. IMHO it's roughly equivalent to the other MMO's I've played (COx, GW, AA). Instead of powers/spells you have ship setups. Plus, I don't know of any other MMO where a bunch of lower SP characters in singly weak ships can take down a vet in a more powerful vessel.

Eve is not the easiest game to get into, (though I has having fun on my second day and jumped into lawless space my second month, but that's another story.) It's a harsh universe the punishes the unprepared. But all this is not the point.

All the feature of EVE, their strengths and flaws real and imagined, the truth is EVE Online is far more than a sum of these parts, and there is one part you conspicously missed in your review. A part that is so vital to enjoying EVE yet you downright ignored it: The playerbase. There are so many good players in this game,good helpful people, and I find your blanket statements of them to be rather insulting, even if crassness is your way.

Anyway, you stated in the AofC review that a good MMO should have a feeling of being something greater than yourself. In that light, I challenge you to find a game other than EVE that allow its player base to make such huge inroads into the game universe (Saga of Ryzom and old SWG are close to this). Where they can actually own a piece of the game world, dominate the market (what other game has a free market like EVE), or even dedicate itself to reaching out to new players and make them at home in the EVE Universe. Teamwork is a must here.

You didn't even try faction warfare. That would have been a good primer for you in the game's PVP.

Does any other MMO have the scope of player interactions. Wars won and lost, alliances made and dissolved. Player structures built and fought over. Hundreds of players (a lot of lag though) in a single system battle among thousands in wars lasting months. I have to ask, what other MMO can match the sheer granduer of the things players can accomplish in EVE?

This, Mr. Yahtzee and my fellow readers, is why EVE appeals to so many, even though it has some rough spots and is not the most accessible MMO in the world. Simple fact, you have to make your fun, there is no other way.

You're free to dislike it, you're free to give it a bad review Mr. Yahtzee. But what irks me is that you reviewed the smallest, rather insignificant portion of this game, a means to an end (money and faction standing, which has it's own benefits) rather than the core. It is a disservice to your viewers to give such a limited review.

Not all games are bad because of a unattractive first glance, some you have to digest a bit, and I hope in the future Mr. Yahtzee, you take the time to do just that.

God Bless

Jason Fairfield aka Creed Richards

ps. The upcoming Ambulation upgrade should make the "worthless" character creator become quite important.

pps...if anyone wishes to read, here are a couple stories of my EVE experiences on the MMORPG.com forums. Which I felt where practical examples of the fun one can have in EVE.

My first steps into 0.0
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1111703#1111703

and

The battle of ED-L9T
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1081195#1081195

 

[Abbadon01]

Have to agree with you on some parts. Yes the interface is very unhelpful at most times and whoever told you that it wasn't about the grind was obviously smoking some good stuff. but the difficulty is what made it so good for me. Yes its like trying to climb a mountain with nothing but a rope ad some sun shorts but that keeps away the power leveling, success junkies who think its actually a good thing to finnish a MMO in 5 days. Its not a casual game and it took me a good week and quite a few million ISK to realise that perhaps if your going to run make sure you do it early. Player corps can be fun and if you looking for any kind of advancement down the track your going to need one. I can understand why you wouldn't like the game. You've never been a fan of MMO's so given that this review isn't all that surprising. Still funny as hell though. If you like the game good if you dont thats fine too. Its been around since before WoW and other MMO's where a deranged thought in some blizzard employees head (WoW player as well for the record) and isnt likely to suffer from one bad review.

 

[Xennith]

... Its been around since before WoW and other MMO's where a deranged thought in some blizzard employees head and isnt likely to suffer from one bad review.

That's sort of a silly way to talk about it. The point isn't to kill or even hurt the game with his satire, the goal is to better inform players who might be interested in the game (Players who have not yet played it) on what it is like. It will either better prepare them for the experience or to reaffirm their suspicions whether or not they decide to try it, or on the flip side it will let the players who like the game and aren't a bunch of dorks have a chuckle at their game's flaws and his excellent delivery of sarcasm.

In fact, because of his review, even negative as it is, he's more likely getting MORE people to try EVE just to see if he's right. In the end, while most will probably be driven off by the difficulty curve, the result is that more people, at the least, will probably try the game who wouldn't have even touched it otherwise, some of which might decide they like the weird way in which it's presented and keep playing, realizing that, as a critic, it's Yahtzee's JOB to criticize games.

Everybody wins except the people who fall into the troll.

 

[Ieyke]

Well you're certainly right on all accounts in regards to EVE, the reason I played it for a good long while was because I had a free 6 months of it (somehow) and the absolutely INSANE depth of the game really had me sort of intrigued. I mean the thing goes on and on forever in every direction depth-wise, but like space (which also goes on and on forever in every direction) it's quite hollow and boring almost the whole time. And when I say I played it for 6 months I really mean to say I had an extra "game" running in the background for 6 months while I played Dawn Of War and Call Of Duty 4 and Portal and various other FUN things.

I do have to give some credit to the claims that you and I "did it wrong" by not joining a corporation tho because the few times when a large group of my friends and I struck out into space as a fleet of Battlecruisers and Battleships to do some bigger battles it was actually rather enjoyable and I imagine you could do that on a regular basis with a corporation rather than the random chance that everyone is online at the same time and feels like playing EVE. However the learning curve for going from single person PvE EVE to corporation level PvP EVE is said to be hellishly steep. In fact they actually charted what seems to be a fairly accurate graph of it: http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0803/LearningCurve.jpg