Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
This thread is comedy gold, almost as good as Yahtzee's review. Watching the rage is soothing to the soul.
Pretty much this. You don't watch a TV series and go through the first 5 hours of utter boredom because someone tells you "it gets better". The game needs to grab your attention. If 5 hours isn't adequate time for that then it has "AWFUL FAIL" written all over it.USFPutty said:
Welcome to the world of gaming today. You must dislike a whole lot of games out there, given that corridors and on rails gameplay has become almost the norm and for sure not the exceptionTetranitrophenol said:
At the very least Final Fantasy XIII offers something else on top of it. Plenty critically acclaimed games do NOT offer anything else after the customary ten hours of sticking to a single rail.
rage? please. I'm actually very much amused. It's always funny to see gamers criticize elements that they acclaim in other kind of games. Biases are always an amusing thing on the internets.Indecipherable said:
All three have a very steep character progression. How I wish I could see that in more western games, where characters like Kratos start dull and remain dull til the end...Stranger 517 said:
The paradigm shift system falls under the "easy to learn, hard to master" definition. Once you master it, you have plenty control. Mind you, if you're not shifting paradygm at least every two attacks, normally you're doing something wrong.
Oh, just FYI, with the right timing the paradigm shift animation is instant, and it even fully recharges your ATB bar.
Easy to learn. Hard to master.
And once again, another smartie feels the need to insult someone that happens to share a different opinionArcane Azmadi said:
Because youn know, to think differently, you MUST be a "retard"
Personally I watched it all. The game doesn't get better later. It gets different.
Plenty people loved the first part and how streamlined it is, and had trouble with how challenging the second part can be.
Final Fantasy XIII is two games in one (both quality and quantity-wise), which part you like more is a matter of taste.
It's funny though, how yathzee says that it gets "better" purely out of hearsay.
Aside from the blatant exaggeration, that's yathze's trademark, there are plenty details that are plain wrong, even during the first five hours of the game.
Aside from the blatant misrepresentation of Hope in order to make him look more stereotyped and incoherent (he's a weakling, but he fights like a champ! yada yada), since hope is the first character to start showing progression during the game, and enters in the "fighting" mindset well before the end of the 5 hours that yathze played.
The funny part is the representation of the combat. As soon as one gets accustomed to it (operation that for me took about 15 minute, wohoo big deal), it gets to be a very fast and absolutely not clunky experience. All menus are accessible, and there are shortcuts you can use. The options are also very varied, making it a fast paced but tactical experience as a whole.
Maybe if yathze didn't sit on his couch with the pre-made mindset "i MUST destroy this game, no matter what", he would have noticed?
And again, sharing a different opinion means being morons, yep, of course.
I seriously doubt many would have complained if he didn't review Final Fantasy XIII, expecially knowing him and his (alleged) tastes. Doubt we'll ever know what his real tastes are, of course.
Aside from the fact that "slander" is oral. the word you're looking for may be "libel".
I didn't know that Yatzhee was some sort of god immune from any sort of criticism or responsibility for what he says, so that calling him on it equals to some form of unforgivable sin.
Shall we re-enact the lex iulia maiestatis?
5 hours. He didn't even get to 15. If he's bored by the first 5 hours of Final Fantasy XIII, I wonder what happens with the first 5 hours of God of War 3 (that happen to be almost the ONLY 5 hours, by the way), that happen to be a lot of fighting in a corridor. Which is exactly what Final Fantasy XIII is. The only difference is that FF has an interesting story during those 5 hours, and interesting characters to get to know.
Oh and God FORBID the game not telling you every single detail of the story immediately! lol.
You must not read much. Edge and Jim Sterling don't make up for the whole press (thank goodness), and for pretty damn sure not for the whole gaming danbase.
So basically you're saying that the "right" mindset to approach Final Fantasy XIII is coming in with a pre-made bias (because RPGs on rails "from the Final Fantasy series no less!" never existed, right?), that since it's an "RPG" it MUST be open world (derailing the non-stop explosive action experience), while God of War 3 MUST be on rails, because otherwise it'd derail the non-stop explosive action experience.
Yep. And thinking differently is "just plain stupid".
I rest my case.
I see people talking about the "fanboy rage" in this thread from gamers that love Final Fantasy XIII, but honestly the biggest "fanboy rage" i see here is from people that love yatzhee and are angry as hell that someone might think to criticize his way to pick games apart. Angry enough to blatantly insult whoever might happen to differ.
Mind you, Yatzhee's way is obviously a sound business model, and most of the times he makes decent points, but this time around the bias seems to have outweighted the facts too much, and it shows.
But don't fret. Yatzhee will survive and thrive even if I happen to differ with his views and ways.
Many games today are linear BUT running down a hallway until I reach a cut-scene, then getting dropped in another hallway to run through until I reach the next cut-scene, rinse and repeat for 20 hours; is not what makes this game linear, its whats makes it bad.Abriael said:Welcome to the world of gaming today. You must dislike a whole lot of games out there, given that corridors and on rails gameplay has become almost the norm and for sure not the exceptionTetranitrophenol said:
At the very least Final Fantasy XIII offers something else on top of it. Plenty critically acclaimed games do NOT offer anything else after the customary ten hours of sticking to a single rail.
I have nothing against linearity; I consider many linear games to be very very entertaining (Bioshock for instance). However, Bioshock, along with many others keep me informed of what is happening, why am I doing this and (quoting Yahtzee) why should I care?. FF13 keeps going and going with little or no intention of filling me up on what's happening. Its almost like they don't want me to be around them. They keep ignoring me until I get the message and leave... which in fact, happened, to me and many other players.
weird, since at about 1 hour in the game you start getting showered with details on how and why thigs came to be the way they are. The fact that they give you such details in a fashion that's not "point a to point b" doesn't mean that you don't know what happens.Tetranitrophenol said:
About 1 hours and an half into the game, I already knew a general overview on why the people were on the train, why they decided to run away, what the previous relations between the characters were, and the general outlook of the world.
Am I amazingly perceptive?
I don't think so. I simply paid attention (and actually played the game. I would love to know how many posting enraged comments here at the ones that dare to defend the game actually played it, even the first few hours, and how many are simply going by hearsay)and put the pieces together.
I was at a drink-up last week where we watched one of our friends try to defeate this difficult boss in FFXIII. He decided to play as Snow after failing with Lightning to "tank the boss to death". It was hilarious to see him scream at the screen for his team mates to "START ******* ATTACKING" or "STOP ******* HEALING AND START RESSURECTING!".
I can see the new battle system from an outsider's point of view interesting and potentially complex and enjoyable. But it really does iscolate the player from the input and make you feel with alot of lack of control. I suppose it turns each battle into a simulation instead of turn-based combat.
I can see the new battle system from an outsider's point of view interesting and potentially complex and enjoyable. But it really does iscolate the player from the input and make you feel with alot of lack of control. I suppose it turns each battle into a simulation instead of turn-based combat.
You guys wanna know what that "20 hours" argument just reminded me of?
The very end of the first Rush Hour movie. It went pretty much like this...
(NOTE: I don't know the names of the characters Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan portrayed, so I'll just indicate them as Tucker's Character and Chan's Character.)
Tucker's Character: How long is this flight?
Chan's Character: 15 hours.
Tucker's Character: FIFTEEN HOURS?! What are we gonna do until then?!
Chan's Character (listening to music): WAR! HUH! GOOD GOD, Y'ALL!!
Tucker's Character: OH HELL NO!!!!
(NOTE: I don't know the names of the characters Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan portrayed, so I'll just indicate them as Tucker's Character and Chan's Character.)
Tucker's Character: How long is this flight?
Chan's Character: 15 hours.
Tucker's Character: FIFTEEN HOURS?! What are we gonna do until then?!
Chan's Character (listening to music): WAR! HUH! GOOD GOD, Y'ALL!!
Tucker's Character: OH HELL NO!!!!
Fine wording good sir!Abriael said:And once again, another smartie feels the need to insult someone that happens to share a different opinionArcane Azmadi said:
Because youn know, to think differently, you MUST be a "retard"
Personally I watched it all. The game doesn't get better later. It gets different.
Plenty people loved the first part and how streamlined it is, and had trouble with how challenging the second part can be.
Final Fantasy XIII is two games in one (both quality and quantity-wise), which part you like more is a matter of taste.
It's funny though, how yathzee says that it gets "better" purely out of hearsay.
Aside from the blatant exaggeration, that's yathze's trademark, there are plenty details that are plain wrong, even during the first five hours of the game.
Aside from the blatant misrepresentation of Hope in order to make him look more stereotyped and incoherent (he's a weakling, but he fights like a champ! yada yada), since hope is the first character to start showing progression during the game, and enters in the "fighting" mindset well before the end of the 5 hours that yathze played.
The funny part is the representation of the combat. As soon as one gets accustomed to it (operation that for me took about 15 minute, wohoo big deal), it gets to be a very fast and absolutely not clunky experience. All menus are accessible, and there are shortcuts you can use. The options are also very varied, making it a fast paced but tactical experience as a whole.
Maybe if yathze didn't sit on his couch with the pre-made mindset "i MUST destroy this game, no matter what", he would have noticed?
And again, sharing a different opinion means being morons, yep, of course.
I seriously doubt many would have complained if he didn't review Final Fantasy XIII, expecially knowing him and his (alleged) tastes. Doubt we'll ever know what his real tastes are, of course.
Aside from the fact that "slander" is oral. the word you're looking for may be "libel".
I didn't know that Yatzhee was some sort of god immune from any sort of criticism or responsibility for what he says, so that calling him on it equals to some form of unforgivable sin.
Shall we re-enact the lex iulia maiestatis?
5 hours. He didn't even get to 15. If he's bored by the first 5 hours of Final Fantasy XIII, I wonder what happens with the first 5 hours of God of War 3 (that happen to be almost the ONLY 5 hours, by the way), that happen to be a lot of fighting in a corridor. Which is exactly what Final Fantasy XIII is. The only difference is that FF has an interesting story during those 5 hours, and interesting characters to get to know.
Oh and God FORBID the game not telling you every single detail of the story immediately! lol.
You must not read much. Edge and Jim Sterling don't make up for the whole press (thank goodness), and for pretty damn sure not for the whole gaming danbase.
So basically you're saying that the "right" mindset to approach Final Fantasy XIII is coming in with a pre-made bias (because RPGs on rails "from the Final Fantasy series no less!" never existed, right?), that since it's an "RPG" it MUST be open world (derailing the non-stop explosive action experience), while God of War 3 MUST be on rails, because otherwise it'd derail the non-stop explosive action experience.
Yep. And thinking differently is "just plain stupid".
I rest my case.
I see people talking about the "fanboy rage" in this thread from gamers that love Final Fantasy XIII, but honestly the biggest "fanboy rage" i see here is from people that love yatzhee and are angry as hell that someone might think to criticize his way to pick games apart. Angry enough to blatantly insult whoever might happen to differ.
Mind you, Yatzhee's way is obviously a sound business model, and most of the times he makes decent points, but this time around the bias seems to have outweighted the facts too much, and it shows.
But don't fret. Yatzhee will survive and thrive even if I happen to differ with his views and ways.
Really, the whole point here is not "Fanboy Final Fantasy Fans". It's really not. Most people here are simply stating that the review wasn't really properly done.
It's not unlike a book, y'know. If you are used to reading Spy novels that are around 100-150 pages long, and the rare occasional 200-250 page book, you can set yourself with your own personal rule of "i read a lot of books, so it the first 2 chapters can't hold me i won't go on" and that's fine. But then, you get a Murder-Mistery story that is clearly over 400 Pages long, and it would be trully silly to think the same rule would apply.
And if you Firmly believe that your rule MUST Apply even so, then you have no business even getting into those sorts of books, because it will be more likely that you'll be hit by lightning (pun intended?) than you actually coming to like a 400 page murder-mystery book. That doesn't mean that old big books are shit or that all murder-mysteries are crap.
That only means that you are not into that type of narrative. And now, letting aside ZP and focusing on it's fanbase here, Not liking that type of narrative is one thing... going from that to imposing a "truth" that everyone who DOES like it is a "moron" or "retard"... that right there is what Fanboyism is all about.