Zero Punctuation: Kingdom Come Deliverance

Zaper

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Squilookle said:
Well this vid has confirmed two things I've long suspected-

1. The melee combat is awful, because it's in 1st person. From the first dev interview that revealed a forced 1st person perspective I worried it would suck to do melee combat, and here we are. Determined to wait for a 3rd person mod now.

nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies
 

Squilookle

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Zaper said:
nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies
Can you lock onto a 3rd person perspective while you're at it? Because I'm pretty sure that was the gist he was getting at.
 

Zaper

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Squilookle said:
Zaper said:
nope he just thought this was skyrim so he rushed into combat not learning any special techniques and with shit stats and then was surprised when he had his ass handed to him he also apparently wasn't aware you can lock onto enemies
Can you lock onto a 3rd person perspective while you're at it? Because I'm pretty sure that was the gist he was getting at.
nope he was complaining about how the camera swings around during combat a thing that is solved by the lock on system
 

RedRockRun

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Jul 23, 2009
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Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.
 

ToastyMozart

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Yeah the problem is that when you try and gun for "realism" in a game it's imperative that you don't then restrict the player from taking realistic courses of action to deal with their problems: IE "that guy's a monstrous badass, lets all rush him at once and dogpile him instead of insisting on fighting him mono-a-mono like some stupid chuuni fuckwit."

Also dear god should limited saves have never been a thing. They're alright as an option for a special super-hardcore difficulty level (it certainly made a second run of TEW2 properly tense and survivally, even if only getting 7 was perhaps a tad overkill), but making it a standard part of gameplay is just insufferable.

Canadamus Prime said:
Also I'd like to point out that realism in video games, at least in terms of mechanics, is generally NOT FUN.
It can be well-applied in certain scenarios (Insurgency's "two shots to the chest and you die" damage model makes for a properly tense and engaging experience, along with fixing a lot of stupid weapon balance issues), but especially when "realism" manifests itself as taking away genre conceits that are there to compensate for things that you can't actually do in a video game does it more often than not turn the whole process into a clunky, frustrating nightmare. For example, a third person view in an action game might not be "realistic," but it's there to compensate for the sort of situational awareness a human has that a 70 degree FOV perspective that's locked to your front just can't deliver.
 

darkrage6

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Zaper said:
This really reminds me of the demon souls review as in he went into the game with the wrong mindset missing some crucial mechanics sucked and rage quit be honest did you skip the tutorial ? you are correct about the camera swinging that's why you can lock on to enemies by pressing tab you are correct about you being slow and clunky at combat that is probably becasue you ran straight ahead not realizing you are a fucking blacksmith's boy you are shit at combat if you want to git gud you need to go to captain bernard in rattay and train your ass off did you even know about things like combos and master strikes ? you need to replay this game in a diffrent mindset
nah the game sucks ass
 

darkrage6

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RedRockRun said:
Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.
He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.
 

Blazing Hero

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darkrage6 said:
RedRockRun said:
Of all the things to criticize in KCD. He could have gone on about the game still needs a lot of patching, the NPC's who have American accents, the lack of variety in NPC faces, the exploitable gameplay mechanics, the dodgy horse controls, and the lack of grand pitched battles. I was waiting for that stuff. Yet he rags on the combat. I'd be keen to take his word for it too if I haven't seen so many people playing the game who don't have any issues.

I never thought I'd have to say this Yahtzee, but git gud.
He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.
Sad to say but the only people I see complaining about the "realism" don't exactly seem like the types who would appreciate history anyway. Also, Yahtzee has admitted to being shit at certain games before. If he was having trouble with the combat then he did need to "git gud" because it becomes quite easy and satisfying once you level up and learn it. The point Yahtzee seemed to miss is that the mechanics of the combat in the beginning of the game are intentionally bad because Henry is someone who doesn't know how to fight.
 

RedRockRun

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Jul 23, 2009
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darkrage6 said:
He is "gud", plenty of other people complained about the bullshit "realism" aspects of the game.
I never said anything about realism. He says the combat is *FUCKING TERRIBLE* yet I've seen and talked to enough people who say it's not that hard. Yahtzee's the first person I've heard who has had a problem with its technical aspects. Of course this isn't the first time Yahtzee has mistaken his opinions for objective fact, and I doubt it will be the last.

Take his Witcher review: the one in which, "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race," was born where he criticized the game for being overly complicated, citing for one its menu system. When I played Witcher I didn't have a single issue and likewise never heard anyone else complain about it being too complicated nor knock the menus. In reality, there is more complexity (both in terms of menus and gameplay) to TES IV: Oblivion which is regarded by many to be drastically dumbed down from Morrowind.

A large part of me doesn't think he actually had issues with KCD's combat but instead just didn't like it. Only, "I didn't like it," doesn't sound as hard-hitting and edgy as, "The combat is *FUCKING TERRIBLE*." Furthermore, I don't think he really believed Witcher to be complicated yet needed an extra gag to pad his argument.

All this being said, I think anyone would be doing himself a disservice to base his decision to buy a game on a Yahtzee review. This is akin to how people shouldn't watch The Daily Show for news. It's entertainment with bits of truth sprinkled about. Somehow, the fact that it makes you laugh gives the impression of veracity.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Dec 25, 2010
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RedRockRun said:
All this being said, I think anyone would be doing himself a disservice to base his decision to buy a game on a Yahtzee review. This is akin to how people shouldn't watch The Daily Show for news. It's entertainment with bits of truth sprinkled about. Somehow, the fact that it makes you laugh gives the impression of veracity.
Well, the limited saves alone are still a large deal-breaker for me.
 

Jacked Assassin

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Jun 4, 2010
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An Elder Scrolls game without proper Khajiits & Argonians isn't worth buying.

But realism, difficulty, & limited saves are awesome!

1 - Allow me to introduce you to reality! It is free!
2 - I guess I can see how not having a cross hair for range weapons can be difficult. Not sure why you would then want an even weirder version for swinging swords.
3 - Well.... I am kind of nostalgic for the ink ribbons back before Resident Evil 4 ruined everything that made Resident Evil 2 awesome.
 

Jacked Assassin

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Noyemi-K said:
Nostalgia for the garbage that was RE2's gameplay is a sign of brain damage.
That was probably meant to be an insult but

1 - Both of my parents are mentally ill.
2 - I had a giant crack in my skull from when I fell out a window back around 1990 because I was trying to pet pigeons like Bert from Sesame Street.

Also calling RE2 garbage doesn't stop RE4 from becoming the generic standard.
 

Callate

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Using a sword on a basic level is pretty damn intuitive. A system that makes it as difficult as Yahtzee is describing isn't actually "realistic", it's just... Eugh. Score one more point for the twits who want to make it as difficult as possible to enjoy a game for anyone who doesn't have as much time to waste as they do. Congratulations. In years to come, your skill with badly engineered melee systems will be the stuff of legend, and everyone else will have naught to show for their labors but careers and significant others and children and real-world skills and creative works and stuff.
 

Zaper

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Callate said:
Using a sword on a basic level is pretty damn intuitive. A system that makes it as difficult as Yahtzee is describing isn't actually "realistic", it's just... Eugh. Score one more point for the twits who want to make it as difficult as possible to enjoy a game for anyone who doesn't have as much time to waste as they do. Congratulations. In years to come, your skill with badly engineered melee systems will be the stuff of legend, and everyone else will have naught to show for their labors but careers and significant others and children and real-world skills and creative works and stuff.
you literally just need to put in a hour or two training this isn't eve online
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Dick Slurp All-Stars is now the official term that will be used. Appropriate really because those calling themselves "Master Race" always inevitably turn out to be the worst parts of whatever group they claim to represent. Seriously, it made sense in RE to have the limited save system because it added to the tension of the game and even then ink ribbons were actually pretty generous if you diligently searched. But that was also twenty years ago and we've moved beyond that because there are better ways to raise tension.
 

C117

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Zaper said:
you literally just need to put in a hour or two training this isn't eve online
Could you clarify that, please? When you say 1-2 hours, do you mean you need to go to someone in-game and train for 1-2 hours, or do you mean that it takes 1-2 hours getting used to the controls (I haven't played the game myself so I have no idea)? Because both are a bit fiddly, but the first one is far more understandable.
 

Ectoplasmic Alcohol

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What a trite review.

I could forgive the shallow understanding of game mechanics if you gave a shit about the plot, but it appears you don't. At multiple points you suggest that major events happen "because reasons". Well, yeah. Talking to NPCs about the intricacies of the plot is optional, and I think we see what you chose. Which is frustrating because you seem to place importance these plot points and the details are interesting and worth investigating.

Your complaints about the combat are also frustrating. You provide some ambiguous anecdotes but fail to reference the overwhelming majority of the combat system. What did you think of the perfect parry and masterstrike system? How is it that a series of back and fourth perfect parries looks amazing and feels visceral, but somehow isn't worth mentioning? What do you think of the different weapon types and how they interact with different types of armor? What did you think of the location-based damage effects and the weapon combos that target specific armor weaknesses? What of mounted combat, the surrender system, clinching, fight-club, and the myriad of combat-altering potion effects?

"limited save"? We're REALLY going to call it simply "limited". Did you not take note that you learn how to make the save item in the intro to the game from shit that's just growing everywhere? Even so, if you can't be bothered to harvest the ingredients or even buy the ingredients, the save item itself is sold in those "pawn shops" for a trivial amount of currency. I'm at a loss on what to think your inability to notice the game auto-saves whenever you make significant progress in a main or side quest. What's even more shocking is that you didn't notice it auto-saves when you SLEEP. Ultimately, the limited saves comes down to how much of your carry limit do you want to dedicate to saves. The answer is a minimal amount, leaving spares on your horse and hording the remaining in your personal storage chest.

Had to retry that siege six times, eh? Well, considering the pattern you've shown up until now, I'd bet money that you didn't pay any attention to the previous quest or the strategizing that determined the flow of the battle that is decided by your measure of success in the previous quest. You didn't understand why Henry didn't command his lord's men to disengage from the battle and chase runt? Henry does have a moment of hesitation, but the performance by Tom McKay as Henry in this scene should tell you everything you need to know. Henry is not cold, calculating and scheming (as you would have him), he's overcome with complex emotions that are the result of the plot up until this point.

Nice of you not to mention the controversy surrounding the game too. It seems a number of critics have ideologies that prevent them from being even remotely objective about the game. Something to do with the problematic portrayal of women in-game? Oh hey! You made an offhand joke along those lines. I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.
 

Zaper

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C117 said:
Zaper said:
you literally just need to put in a hour or two training this isn't eve online
Could you clarify that, please? When you say 1-2 hours, do you mean you need to go to someone in-game and train for 1-2 hours, or do you mean that it takes 1-2 hours getting used to the controls (I haven't played the game myself so I have no idea)? Because both are a bit fiddly, but the first one is far more understandable.
1. yes there is a character called captain Bernard you meet about 5 hours in (you dont need to do any substantial combat before that)

2.its not getting used to the controls as much as mastering the games finer mechanics like combos parry's and master strikes as well as leveling up your strength agility and weapon stats (this isn't skyrim this is a real rpg you need to level up your stats) the controls themselves are quite easy to get used to you will probably feel comfortable with them by the end of the first quest