Zero Punctuation: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII

[gamegod25]

Considering the fact that the world is going to end regardless and that even if you do well it only means spending more time with Robo-***** and Chatty Hope-y, I find myself less than motivated to say the least.

 

[IrisNetwork]

Yahtzee does a JRPG? This gonna be good. And it was ^_^
Glad I saw Noah Antwiler's AKA Spoony's review on FF13. Now I know who Serah is thanks to his SERAH Counter. She was this... girl... thing. Ah nevermind.

Final Fantasy should probably be renamed "Fuck Logic" with all those plotholes

How is this getting positive reviews? Oh, Machinima and IGN, of course.

 

[mindfaQ]

What is popular in Japan is mysterious and strange. Characters are frequently 2 dimensional hypocrites.

True, very seldom you find believable or deep characters in Japanese media. Just a lot of tropes. Might be that some things are lost in the translations, but it can't be that much, can it?

 

[octafish]

Hmmm, I've been catching up on The Walking Dead Season 3 lately, first there was the introduction of Cutty Tyreese, then Rick specifically tells Carl to "Watch The Wire" and now this, must be some kind of sign. Fuck the Walking Dead, I'm watching The Wire again. All in the Game yo. All in the Game.

 

[AgentLampshade]

I'm just glad it's over. Onwards to XV and it's glory.

 

[Karadalis]

Why did 13 get two sequels?? I just do not understand. Literally every title in the series was more worthy than that pile of crap.

Its as Yahtzee said...

"Square Enix acts in mysterios ways"

But yeah im just as baffled as you about all this... after the disaster that was 13 i thought this one was dead in the water.

But hey... 10 got a sequel too...

Makes Square look like a Mommy that thinks her kid is a genious while its shoveling sand into its face.

Yeah but 10 was a great game, and when 10-2 sucked they stepped back and said "We better not do anything else."

No one at Square said that after FF13 sucked. And they wonder why their company is a mess.

Eh... im rather on spoony ones side when it comes to 10.. no offense meant.

When im looking back the whole final fantasy franchise lost alot after 6.. 7 was good but after that they overdid it with the angsty emo types.. wich they then tried to change back with 9 and 10... only swinging a bit to far into the redicule territory with 9 and an unlikable whiny main char and a plot with more holes then swiss cheese in 10.

And the less we talk about 12 the better...

 

[RA92]

There's combat in a Thief game. There's your answer right there.

The original Thief had combat as well. In fact, the new one only gives you a black jack, while Thief 1 & 2 also gave you a sword.

 

[RA92]

Why did 13 get two sequels?? I just do not understand. Literally every title in the series was more worthy than that pile of crap.

And imagine - the only Final Fantasy titles you got through an entire generation were 3 FFXIII games.

[And only one shiity Ace Combat set in the real world. ]

 

[Silverspetz]

So it seems the Lightning Defense Force is already here. I swear it has to be guys from SE, no one can like this character (if you can even call her that anymore and not just "set piece"). Unsurprisingly, this game was horrible but it did make for one of the better ZP reviews in awhile. Can we please put Lightning and the rest of her broody band out to pasture now...and shoot them? Please?

I love how people seem to think anyone with anything positive to say about this game has to be part of some organized cult dedicated to "defending" Lightning, or agents sent by SE themselves.

 

[Nathan Thompson]

I'm wondering when Yahtzee will get to the new Thief game. Provided he can hold back his hot sheering rage.

 

[Quellist]

I seem to be part of a particularly loathed minority who actually enjoyed FF XII, however -2 was awful and this toxic pile of poo looked so bad from just the demo that I decided not to buy it, having read reviews and seen Yahtzee trashing it, I'm bloody glad I didn't!

 

[shadowmagus]

So it seems the Lightning Defense Force is already here. I swear it has to be guys from SE, no one can like this character (if you can even call her that anymore and not just "set piece"). Unsurprisingly, this game was horrible but it did make for one of the better ZP reviews in awhile. Can we please put Lightning and the rest of her broody band out to pasture now...and shoot them? Please?

I love how people seem to think anyone with anything positive to say about this game has to be part of some organized cult dedicated to "defending" Lightning, or agents sent by SE themselves.

You missed the guy who was posting earlier. There was some level of fanaticism going on there. Otherwise, yes. Lightning is a wholly unlikable character. Bland, unoriginal, broody. The idea of "God" taking away her emotions makes her even less of a character and more of a set piece then anything resembling a character. I just take issue with the fact that people defend this tripe, when we all know SE is capable of producing actual characters.

 

[Gunjester]

"The enemies were too hard so I gave up."

Good review.

The game wasn't fun, the story-line made no sense, and the combat was grind based and uninteresting, so I stopped playing.

Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[balladbird]

JRPG has a broad meaning. Plus games can have multiple genres at the same time. Dragon's Dogma, for example, is both a WRPG and an action RPG. So is Dark Souls.

Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that JRPG was a title given based on where the game originated, more than anything. As such, DD and Dark Souls being tagged "WRPG" confuses me. Both games are as japanese as the rising sun, though their fanbases are hell-bent on denying it.

 

[ETK]

Don't really get all the negativity Lightning and her character gets(basing this of the two first games, haven't played Returns yet). Maybe i'm biased because i actually liked playing as a badass female sword wielding protagonist instead of the usual 15-16 year old spiky haired kid. And allthough her Snarky Ice queen character type have been done a bazillion times, there were times that i thought some of her conversations with the other characters were engaging(particularly towards Hope and Serah)

Combat never felt like anything special, it was better than the borefest that was the first 20 hours of FF XIII's combat, but it still didn't really feel feel fun, and I had to stop multiple times playing through it because I just couldn't stand getting into one more battle. The multiple endings were a decent idea, but even the best ending just felt like pointless drama to set up another game, it almost felt like a goddamn cliffhanger, I haven't been that blueballed by a video game ending since Halo 2.

Agree. Enemies respawning nonstop until you had actually finished your mission in a particular area was incredibly annoying. It gave me no time whatsoever to explore and it was just an neverending slugfest.

 

[KazeAizen]

Wow I had the exact opposite reaction as your buddy. Hell Final Fantasy XIII-2 is the first game that made me shed a tear. To me its probably on my list of top 5 PS3 games. The critic backlash I can handle. I came to grips with them a long time ago. The utter bile, rage, and hatred from fans though I see no real rhyme or reason. It seems half the time they are yelling because "its not muh Final Fantasy". At least that's how half the negative comments I've seen towards that XIII's come off. There is a point when the fan critique stops and just descends into fans using a game as a convenient punching bag.

That does happen, in some ways, the game gets a lot of hate because it also gets love, with a polarizing opinion people tend to gravitate towards the extreme ends of the scale more often, look back at the beginning of the thread to Chocorodeo's posts to see someone who seems way too invested in defending the games.

As for XIII-2, while I didn't hate it as much as my roommates, I found it to be an overall forgettable experience, time travel is hard to pull off well in even the best of stories, and 13-2 mostly just felt like an empty spectacle. The story of XIII also seems to be largely pointless in the scheme of XIII-2 as well, the time travel seems to erase what character development the original XIII, and I will never be able to forgive the game shunning Snow in favor of giving Serah yet another Bishonen pretty boy to pal around with, at least they didn't arbitrarily break off their engagement or anything, I will give the game that much.

Combat never felt like anything special, it was better than the borefest that was the first 20 hours of FF XIII's combat, but it still didn't really feel feel fun, and I had to stop multiple times playing through it because I just couldn't stand getting into one more battle. The multiple endings were a decent idea, but even the best ending just felt like pointless drama to set up another game, it almost felt like a goddamn cliffhanger, I haven't been that blueballed by a video game ending since Halo 2.

Lightning Returns was another mixed bag in a different way, as Yahtzee touched on, the whole time jump was kind of jarring considering that noone aged, but they all changed characterization anyway. I feel like if they hadn't pulled the same character reset in XIII-2, Lightning Returns would have worked better, doing it two games in a row just makes it too difficult for me to care about any of the party characters from the first game, their characterization isn't consistent enough for me to be drawn into their new situations. The whole end of the world, and drudgery of eternal life thing was actually interesting, but Lightning wasn't an interesting enough character to make the interaction between her and the immortal populace interesting. In the end, the story just feels so disconnected, and the entire trilogy just seems to end up trying to do too much, and accomplish too little.

To sum it all up, the 13 trilogy is polarizing because there are people that like it and hate it, and that friction causes people to become more extreme, either ignoring flaws in order to prove critics wrong, or exaggerating flaws to prove that the people who like it must be wrong. It's kind of like the DMC reboot debate, the game is far from perfect, but people get too emotionally invested in defending or attacking it, to the point that it is either an awesome game better than everything before it, or it is the worst thing ever and ruins all the past games retroactively.

The polarizing opinions on these games and DmC actually remind me oddly of politics. U.S.A. politics in particular. One side is right, one side is wrong, no one has valid arguments on the other side and if you so much as admit that one side does have a point you might as well commit political suicide....and now I can't believe that I am able to take an argument about a game and compare it to politics. Thought it'd be the last thing I ever do. ;-;

I've grown past trying to overly defend a game. I used to do it but then realized how stupid I looked. Every now and then I'll chime in when I think something is getting a little overly hated. State my piece and then move on. Unless people like you and a few other users on this thread actually open up a great dialogue about the game instead of just name calling and insults.

I'll have to admit that in the wake of XIII-2 XIII by comparison did seem kind of trite. One of the things I loved about XIII-2 was the time travel aspect. I just like games that involve time travel so you could say I'm sucker for that kind of stuff. When pulled off in an interesting or at least different way than I've seen before I usually like it. XIII-2 did that for me. Shunning Snow was pretty bad luckily though Noel had one of my favorite voice actors and his own compelling story. One of the best sequences in the game is when you visit his time for the first time and you basically see the end of humanity happening in front of you. It was a chilling sequence, for me at least.

The problem with blueballing people in video games like that is you better hope your game is good. Sadly people didn't think XIII-2 measured up so instead of "OMG WHAT'S NEXT?" it was more like "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?! THAT WAS WORSE THAN MASS EFFECT 3!" For the record I have not played Mass Effect 3 but I know the general consensus on that particular ending upon release. I still need to play through all of Lightning Returns but I got far enough in to know one other thing that would most likely piss a bunch of people off. It isn't being subtle at all about the very religious over tones. If they actually do something interesting with it that's going to be awesome. If you know don't spoil it please Being a practicing Christian myself I couldn't but start thinking what that part of the game is going to get from gamers.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Why did 13 get two sequels?? I just do not understand. Literally every title in the series was more worthy than that pile of crap.

Its as Yahtzee said...

"Square Enix acts in mysterios ways"

But yeah im just as baffled as you about all this... after the disaster that was 13 i thought this one was dead in the water.

But hey... 10 got a sequel too...

Makes Square look like a Mommy that thinks her kid is a genious while its shoveling sand into its face.

Yeah but 10 was a great game, and when 10-2 sucked they stepped back and said "We better not do anything else."

No one at Square said that after FF13 sucked. And they wonder why their company is a mess.

Eh... im rather on spoony ones side when it comes to 10.. no offense meant.

When im looking back the whole final fantasy franchise lost alot after 6.. 7 was good but after that they overdid it with the angsty emo types.. wich they then tried to change back with 9 and 10... only swinging a bit to far into the redicule territory with 9 and an unlikable whiny main char and a plot with more holes then swiss cheese in 10.

And the less we talk about 12 the better...

I have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, FF6 is the best FF game of all time, but FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, and FF12 are all GREAT games.

I seem to be part of a particularly loathed minority who actually enjoyed FF XII, however -2 was awful and this toxic pile of poo looked so bad from just the demo that I decided not to buy it, having read reviews and seen Yahtzee trashing it, I'm bloody glad I didn't!

Don't be timid - most people like FF12.

JRPG has a broad meaning. Plus games can have multiple genres at the same time. Dragon's Dogma, for example, is both a WRPG and an action RPG. So is Dark Souls.

Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that JRPG was a title given based on where the game originated, more than anything. As such, DD and Dark Souls being tagged "WRPG" confuses me. Both games are as japanese as the rising sun, though their fanbases are hell-bent on denying it.

No....JRPG and WRPG are styles of RPGs, not the country of origin. JRPGs are mostly defined by predetermined characters, parties, and more linear storytelling. WRPGs are mostly defined by character creation, single character control, open worlds, and less linear storytelling.

Dark Souls has more in common with Morrowind than Final Fantasy 7.

 

[PunkRex]

Why did 13 get two sequels?? I just do not understand. Literally every title in the series was more worthy than that pile of crap.

Its as Yahtzee said...

"Square Enix acts in mysterios ways"

But yeah im just as baffled as you about all this... after the disaster that was 13 i thought this one was dead in the water.

But hey... 10 got a sequel too...

Makes Square look like a Mommy that thinks her kid is a genious while its shoveling sand into its face.

Yeah but 10 was a great game, and when 10-2 sucked they stepped back and said "We better not do anything else."

No one at Square said that after FF13 sucked. And they wonder why their company is a mess.

I don't wanna start a flame war but I found 10-2 far more enjoyable then 10. The sphere grid was completely tedious while the class/dress/whatever system of 10-2 was more like FF's old titles. I'm not saying the story was great, didn't like it in either games but 10-2 was actually fun to grind which is something I couldn't say for 10.

 

[PunkRex]

I'm just glad it's over. Onwards to XV and it's glory.

Hasn't the only thing released about FFXV been that gloomy looking trailer with the leather wearing, androgynous fella talking in a car?

*prepares party popper*

 

[Nona]

Why did 13 get two sequels?? I just do not understand. Literally every title in the series was more worthy than that pile of crap.

Its as Yahtzee said...

"Square Enix acts in mysterios ways"

But yeah im just as baffled as you about all this... after the disaster that was 13 i thought this one was dead in the water.

But hey... 10 got a sequel too...

Makes Square look like a Mommy that thinks her kid is a genious while its shoveling sand into its face.

Yeah but 10 was a great game, and when 10-2 sucked they stepped back and said "We better not do anything else."

No one at Square said that after FF13 sucked. And they wonder why their company is a mess.

I don't wanna start a flame war but I found 10-2 far more enjoyable then 10. The sphere grid was completely tedious while the class/dress/whatever system of 10-2 was more like FF's old titles. I'm not saying the story was great, didn't like it in either games but 10-2 was actually fun to grind which is something I couldn't say for 10.

This exactly... I found some parts of FFX good and some parts horribly tedious... not to mention that we poor souls in NA got an offensively easy game - without dark aeons, there is literally no point to getting the ultimate weapons other than completionism, no reason to use the sphere grid effectively... really almost no reason to get up to lvl 99. Maybe get Yuna's. Blast everything in sight with Holy and 1MP cost until dead. Game set match.

On the other hand, I quite enjoyed FFX-2. The story was laughably awful, but coming off of being one of the 2 people on the planet who didn't like X I kind of enjoyed the canon being basically trolled. It was a little Guide-Dang-It-y with some side quests, but the battle system was fun, I enjoyed the dressphere system (and leveling up by using abilities was a nice touch), and some of the Episode Completes (I'm looking at you Via Infinito) actually required strategy and some form of skill given you didn't use Catnip. Looking at the list of Toriyama'd games, I'd say X-2 is the only one that was enjoyable for me... but then again usually when I play turn-based JRPGs I come into it assuming the writing will not be high art, and only FFX and FFXIII have managed to offend me with bad writing. And that's from someone who's played every numbered entry besides XI.