Zero Punctuation: Star Fox Zero

rembrandtqeinstein

New member
Sep 4, 2009
2,173
0
0
I laughed so hard I'm cleaning boogers off of my monitor.

my sides have reached escape velocity and have passed Chandrayaan 1 on the way to the outer planets

really good episode
 

Candescence

New member
Jan 7, 2011
13
0
0
There are moments where I chuckled, but after having played the game myself and actually found the controls to be enjoyable after a single run through the training stages (and racking up silvers and golds right off the bat), I have to wonder if all the people hating on the gyro controls are either doing it wrong or just hate motion controls on principle. I don't even need the gamepad screen 80-90% of the time, the TV screen aiming reticule seems unintuitive at first but is really just an indicator of shot angle relative to your ship. Sure, the controls aren't perfect, but they're far from terrible.

They could be better and take time to get used to, sure, but I honestly can't go back to 64's control scheme when Zero provides a beautifully elegant control scheme that relies on just the sticks and triggers (and a single button from time to time to transform). So much more control and flexibility, while allowing the gameplay to be faster-paced and more interesting - Star Wolf dogfights are more aggressive and challenging since you no longer need to get directly behind an enemy to shoot at them, the challenge is keeping them in your sights. And the gamepad screen isn't even needed 80% of the time, you could probably tweak the gameplay a bit to not need the gamepad screen at all. The gyro takes a bit of practice, but at least it's way easier than inputs you see in traditional fighting games. You just can't do this sort of movement-independent aiming remotely as elegantly without the gyro aiming.

Also, it's honestly refreshing to have a short, replayable game for once that can be finished in an afternoon. Could've done with a few more stages at least, perhaps, but I was pretty satisfied.

Though, I don't know why I'm bothering with defending this game, chances are I'm gonna get yelled at, because God forbid I have a good time because of controls that other people can't wrap their heads around. Just a quick reminder that a lot of people hated dual-stick FPS controls before Halo came around and non-gamers find "traditional" controllers horrendously unintuitive - just because you might need to take more than five minutes to learn something new doesn't mean it sucks ;)
 

Flatfrog

New member
Dec 29, 2010
885
0
0
It sounds like a box-set of Keeping Up Appearances would actually be a welcome addition.
I had an interesting discussion with a guy at the counter in Game the other day, who was trying to convince me that VR was going to be huge very soon. And I said I'm still waiting to be convinced. When he asked why, I just pointed out that motion controls were the Next Big Thing five years ago, but it turns out that literally all the games they are useful for have now been made, and all we're left with is games like this one, desperately trying to find a reason to use them. At least the Wii had some good ideas behind it - so far I haven't seen a single game for the WiiU that couldn't have been done just as easily or better without that stupid tablet.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
9,710
2,901
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Cid Silverwing said:
Jesus Christ, Yahtzee, 2 furry games in a row? You might as well get a fursuit by this point. :3

But seriously, Star Fox Zero can fuck off and Nintendo needs to seriously stop inventing solutions for non-existent problems, on top of needing to stop recycling their IPs. However long it's been after the GameCube and they JUST couldn't leave well enough alone and NOT do a remake of Star Fox 64 with inferior controls. I will never understand the fucking logic behind this. I mean if they had just made it a twinstick shooter (Ratchet & Clank did that better, coincidentally) or stayed with the old scheme, then it would have been less of a mistake. What they REALLY should do though is follow on from the previous games and do a space opera already, preferably something like Mass Effect.

If Nintendo weren't the EA of Japan before, they sure are now.
No, that title belongs to Capcom, but I understand your frustration. I was originally going play it, but when I heard about the motion controls, I took it back after threes days; and put the rest of the money to my pre-orders towards Doom and TMNT: Mutants in Manhattan.
 

Darth_Payn

New member
Aug 5, 2009
2,868
0
0
rembrandtqeinstein said:
I laughed so hard I'm cleaning boogers off of my monitor.

my sides have reached escape velocity and have passed Chandrayaan 1 on the way to the outer planets

really good episode
I know, right?! I'm still laughing at hw he used the giant, smiling chimp head.
 

darkrage6

New member
May 11, 2016
478
0
0
Candescence said:
There are moments where I chuckled, but after having played the game myself and actually found the controls to be enjoyable after a single run through the training stages (and racking up silvers and golds right off the bat), I have to wonder if all the people hating on the gyro controls are either doing it wrong or just hate motion controls on principle. I don't even need the gamepad screen 80-90% of the time, the TV screen aiming reticule seems unintuitive at first but is really just an indicator of shot angle relative to your ship. Sure, the controls aren't perfect, but they're far from terrible.

They could be better and take time to get used to, sure, but I honestly can't go back to 64's control scheme when Zero provides a beautifully elegant control scheme that relies on just the sticks and triggers (and a single button from time to time to transform). So much more control and flexibility, while allowing the gameplay to be faster-paced and more interesting - Star Wolf dogfights are more aggressive and challenging since you no longer need to get directly behind an enemy to shoot at them, the challenge is keeping them in your sights. And the gamepad screen isn't even needed 80% of the time, you could probably tweak the gameplay a bit to not need the gamepad screen at all. The gyro takes a bit of practice, but at least it's way easier than inputs you see in traditional fighting games. You just can't do this sort of movement-independent aiming remotely as elegantly without the gyro aiming.

Also, it's honestly refreshing to have a short, replayable game for once that can be finished in an afternoon. Could've done with a few more stages at least, perhaps, but I was pretty satisfied.

Though, I don't know why I'm bothering with defending this game, chances are I'm gonna get yelled at, because God forbid I have a good time because of controls that other people can't wrap their heads around. Just a quick reminder that a lot of people hated dual-stick FPS controls before Halo came around and non-gamers find "traditional" controllers horrendously unintuitive - just because you might need to take more than five minutes to learn something new doesn't mean it sucks ;)
Or just maybe some people find the controls to be absolute garbage. The gamepad adds absolutely nothing to the experience IMO, it only takes away from it.

I didn't like the N64's control scheme so much either, but the 3DS version had far superior controls.

Look I enjoyed the game too, but that doesn't mean I don't understand why people hate it, I don't blame reviewers like Giant Bomb one bit for not scoring it too highly. Nobody was asking for motion controls in a Star Fox game.

Don't know why people are comparing this to dual-stick controls as that comparison makes zero sense, dual-stick controls have since become standard, but motion controls are still largely seen as an unwanted and forced gimmick, so is it really any surprise that people did not react well to SFZ forcing people to use them against their will.

Nobody is saying the controls are bad because they are "new", they're bad because they were completely unnecessary, it felt like Nintendo just threw in the game for the sake of change, and change is not always inherently good as Linkara said.
 

darkrage6

New member
May 11, 2016
478
0
0
Flatfrog said:
It sounds like a box-set of Keeping Up Appearances would actually be a welcome addition.
I had an interesting discussion with a guy at the counter in Game the other day, who was trying to convince me that VR was going to be huge very soon. And I said I'm still waiting to be convinced. When he asked why, I just pointed out that motion controls were the Next Big Thing five years ago, but it turns out that literally all the games they are useful for have now been made, and all we're left with is games like this one, desperately trying to find a reason to use them. At least the Wii had some good ideas behind it - so far I haven't seen a single game for the WiiU that couldn't have been done just as easily or better without that stupid tablet.
Agreed on VR, the Oculus Rift is out now and very few people even seem to notice. The Playstation VR might have some success, though Sony probably shot themselves in the foot with all this PS4.5 nonsense, since most people aren't going to be able to afford both they'll have to pick one or the other, which will cause Sony to lose sales. The more likely scenario is after some initial sales successes, the PSVR will be abandoned and forgotten like Kinect was.
 

Grumpy Ginger

New member
Jul 9, 2012
85
0
0
You know I almost wonder if Nintendo's obsession with control gimmicks and the like is partly due to the fact that they can't change anything else. As in the stories, character designs and even basic stuff like characters being voiced in Zelda will cause rioting in the streets if changed but sup bar control schemes will just cause a bit of grumbling and can justify a new game even if everything else if unchanged internally in the actual game.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
Legacy
Apr 10, 2020
16,958
1,030
118
Country
Argentina
Candescence said:
I have to wonder if all the people hating on the gyro controls are either doing it wrong or just hate motion controls on principle.
Is it completely out of the question that the controls are really that bad?
 

Xman490

Doctorate in Danger
May 29, 2010
1,186
0
0
Looks like I'll have to rely on CoD to sate my desire for unrealistically violent spaceship combat...
if the PC version is functional at launch:
 

Kyle Davis

New member
Apr 23, 2010
10
0
0
The weirdest thing is that some people on Metacritic, Google+ and Facebook actually loves the game. They say it's perfect, innovative and engaging. I'm just sitting going "WHY?! Did you even play it? It's unplayable! No way is nostalgia holding all of it up!" It's baffles me beyond belief!
 

rgrekejin

New member
Mar 6, 2011
267
0
0
Blazing Hero said:
...
I am just sitting here thinking. Nintendo please don't turn Zelda into a gimmicky mess like Star Fox!!!! I am really concerned because Nintendo has been using the word 'innovative' to describe it and now alarm bells are ringing out in my head. What the hell is wrong with Nintendo lately?! They are turning out some shit first party titles and when the games aren't shit then Nintendo censors the hell out of them! It is crazy town in that company right now.
They probably can't. It's coming out on the NX as well as the WiiU, so it's very likely any WiiU-specific gimmick just wouldn't work.
 

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,591
418
88
Country
Philippines
Usually, when Yahtzee makes a ZP, no matter how loved or praised it is, we all still enjoy it because we know at the end of the day Yahtzee is one miserable bastard and his primary focus for ZPs is humor.

But when it's Nintendo...
 

marioandsonic

New member
Nov 28, 2009
657
0
0
...Yeah, that's about what I expected. I still like the game, but I can't say I disagree with the complaints about the controls. Also, I hate the fact that it's another remake/reboot, because it's not like the game industry has been pumping those out with alarming regularity lately.

Cid Silverwing said:
If Nintendo weren't the EA of Japan before, they sure are now.
I thought that was Konami's job?
 

darkrage6

New member
May 11, 2016
478
0
0
rgrekejin said:
Blazing Hero said:
...
I am just sitting here thinking. Nintendo please don't turn Zelda into a gimmicky mess like Star Fox!!!! I am really concerned because Nintendo has been using the word 'innovative' to describe it and now alarm bells are ringing out in my head. What the hell is wrong with Nintendo lately?! They are turning out some shit first party titles and when the games aren't shit then Nintendo censors the hell out of them! It is crazy town in that company right now.
They probably can't. It's coming out on the NX as well as the WiiU, so it's very likely any WiiU-specific gimmick just wouldn't work.
Don't be so sure, they'll probably make two versions like they did with Twilight Princess. Knowing Nintendo there's no way they'll pass on the opportunity to give the Gamepad one last hurrah.
 

darkrage6

New member
May 11, 2016
478
0
0
LordTerminal said:
Y'know, I could explain why I feel Yahtzee's complaints about the controls are unfounded, how he clearly did this just to get back on his "I need to degrade Nintendo even though the other companies are being far worse lately" high horse, or even why I want to staple his nards to the wall for that bullshit complaint about the graphics. (THEY DO NOT LOOK LIKE THEY BELONG ON THE 64!)

But I'm such a foul, drained mood after work today that all I can muster is just a "Go to hell, Yahtzee."

If there's anything I hate about this game, it's that Nintendo made yet another remake of the same story that was told in the original SNES Star Fox and Star Fox 64. See this is why I can't stand the people who hate on Adventures and Assault. At least those games tried to expand the universe and the story beyond just "Andross has invaded the Lylat System!" for the hundredth time.

That being said, Command on the DS is still the single worst title in the franchise. You think Zero's controls are bad? Try playing Star Fox with a stylus pen.
No he didn't do it to equalize things, lots of people fucking hate the controls for this game. Telling him to "go to hell" just cause he hates something you like seems very petty.

As for the graphics, Yahtzee always exaggerates for the sake of comedy, are you new to watching his show or something? I think they look OK, but nothing spectacular.
 

deadish

New member
Dec 4, 2011
694
0
0
Blazing Hero said:
...
I am just sitting here thinking. Nintendo please don't turn Zelda into a gimmicky mess like Star Fox!!!! I am really concerned because Nintendo has been using the word 'innovative' to describe it and now alarm bells are ringing out in my head. What the hell is wrong with Nintendo lately?! They are turning out some shit first party titles and when the games aren't shit then Nintendo censors the hell out of them! It is crazy town in that company right now.
"Lately"? Nintendo has been on the gimmick train since the DS IMHO.

Face it, half the time the 2nd screen is worthless because guess what, I only have one pair of eyes and can only look at one screen at a time. I rather they just gave us a single larger screen.

The pen outside of a few niche games was just awkward as you have to let go of the controls to take it out, use it for some stupid task that could have been done with the D-pad 99% of the time, then put it back in ...

Nintendo is pretty much trying to be different for difference sake.

Einstein did things different ... but so do the loons at your local mental asylum. The difference is Einstein produced work that is helpful to humanity while your local loons produce rubbish.
 

Charli

New member
Nov 23, 2008
3,445
0
0
Cid Silverwing said:
If Nintendo weren't the EA of Japan before, they sure are now.
Woah woah woah. Okay let's calm down. Konami haven't dropped out of existence YET okay? Let's not get all crazy and say things that are wildly over hysterical.

...Calling something the EA of anything... boy. I need to sit down, coming down with a case of the shakes.
 

Guffe

New member
Jul 12, 2009
5,106
0
0
Yahtzee sums it up as I was afraid it would be...
Which is sad, because I DL:ed the N64 StarFox for 10euros a month ago and enjoyed a few playthroughs on that.
I'll probably get this when it comes on sale sometime in the future.
No word on the minigame SlippyProtection thing... would like to know if that is fun and worth a few buck or not.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,953
6
13
Yet no Starfox adventures. That was the highlight of the eponymous chicken chaser's career. Why do a phoned in remake of Starfox 64? I had that as a needy little shitbag and was never particularly impressed even with the low standards of a child with hardly any games. It passed the time i guess. Starfox adventures had dinosaurs...bloody dinosaurs, for god's sake! I can't help but feel this title was passed on to some developers just to fill in a gap between release schedules. There doesn't appear to be any passion put into it.