I dunno, we were in prison together. Prison changes a cat.Hafrael said:Why would you want to pall around with a fantasy Hitler?!Nasrin said:<3
I agree, it hurts my feelings that Ulfric won't pal around with you.
I can say with certainty that the only thing that has been kept consistent from the 5 games of the Elder Scrolls series is that you are a hero who is special that goes around adventuring and becoming stronger and who solves the problem put forth at the start of the game. Also, its a primarily first person rpg. Other than that, major changes have been made over time to the gameplay, graphics, story, characters, setting, enemies, sidequests and just about everything. If you want to go into specifics, please go right ahead.Dexter111 said:It's funny that this is supposed to be that game "saving" everyone from the horrible "Modern Warfare 3", when they have so much in common... from the amount of marketing put into it to gain "mass market appeal", to the propensity of Bethesda to keep remaking that one game since 1994 being afraid that if they change too much they could "lose the formula".
No game is perfect, least of all large-scale rpgs. I personally got into the Elder Scrolls series around Oblivion and thought it was a nice game. Good, but not even close to great. I then played the shivering isles expansion which I enjoyed tremendously. After playing through oblivion, I was curious about other games in the series and lo and behold I found morrowind. An awful looking game with bad physics(implying of course it had any physics), barely any voiced characters, hilariously awful animations and a bad menu and weapon switching system. But despite all this, its still one of my favorite games of all time. Why? Well, what you seem to have forgotten is that which constitutes a good game: A good or great game is one in which the good aspects make you overlook its flaws and enjoy it regardless of them. I very much enjoyed morrowind because of the design of the world, the writing and the sheer freedom provided. So this part of your post really confused me, because surely games you enjoy have flaws and in conversation you probably attempt to talk them away while emphasizing the good parts, don't you? And if you say: "My favorite games don't have flaws." Then you are simply delusional.Dexter111 said:What it also shares is the amount of fanboyism towards the brand and the ability of people to talk away their continuously broken game mechanics - like leveling systems, scaling, loot systems, UI, AI and whatnot.
What is your point? You seem to be saying that you dislike skyrim and then you point out how they finally decided to start making the dungeons better and more unique. Do you not like the fact that they finally decided to make their dungeons better?Dexter111 said:But my main problem with their game was and still is this so called "organic world", fun fact: Bethesda didn't even have any dedicated Level-designers till Skyrim came around:
http://www.made2game.com/articles/Features/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim/26218/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-hands-on-What-a-difference-a-level-designer-makes/ (they also said this in their Making Of video that also was on YouTube).
And your proof for this is...nothing. Hm, interesting. Also, are you saying Skyrim is doing this or another Elder Scrolls game? Because I could have sworn you just posted a link talking about how Bethesda has been working to improve their dungeons.Dexter111 said:Their way of designing the world and dungeons is still that of the late 80s and early 90s, where you just stick some wall textures and set pieces together, throw it through some randomizer and a few algorithms and maybe let a human being rearrange some of them for a bit and add a bit of fluff and voilá... 120 dungeons to explore!
You just pointed out how they improved their level designs and now you're saying all they've done is improve the graphics. You really shouldn't poke holes in your own arguments, its unhealthy.Dexter111 said:The only difference between now and then is that they're using higher resolution and higher polygon assets and it looks prettier, but they've basically kept making the same game in different iterations and with a few new features since 1994, although I can give them that they at least made a bunch of progress with Skyrim... and at least discovered verticality and a few other things.
I don't even know what to make of this part. You can't honestly tell me you've played skyrim and thought it was bland. It sounds like you're playing a completely different game, to be quite honest. It genuinely sounds like you went inside and outside one house and one cave a few hundred times. Also, if you truly want to boil it down, most quests in video games are "fetch" or "kill" quests.Dexter111 said:It's fun for a while though till I'm feeling that in my journey through Blandistan they are just starting to waste my time yet again, that I've been to this small village before, that I've entered this house for a few hundred times before with that exact same table and that chair and that armoire aligned the exact same way, that I've explored and killed dozens of moving things in a cave just like this before, that I've endured the inane ramblings of some NPC sounding similar and saying similar things before and that I've done that "fetch" or "kill" quest a few times by now and so on...
I would actually like to side with yahtzee and agree with a phrase he said but a few videos ago. Something along the lines of "We don't want multiplayer twats walking in and ruining our nice little singleplayer game." I personally equate the Elder Scrolls series to a series of storybooks in which you write your own story. If you don't enjoy story and immersion and lore in a game then I don't think the Elder Scrolls Series is for you. You seem to enjoy other people more than a good story, so maybe you should just play TOR or some other MMO.Dexter111 said:It's also interesting that he poo-poo's the lack of Multiplayer, cause during almost any of those moments I felt that if they at least added Co-Op to their games it might make it bearable for a little longer as I could extract fun out of that instead of the immediate game (which might be sub-par, like a lot of people do in many MMOs).
As long as we're making stuff up or assuming things like you did with this statement, maybe we can pretend The Witcher 2 and RAGE were both good games. Also, I would once again like to bring up the link that YOU, YOURSELF POSTED THAT SAID BETHESDA HAD IMPROVED THE QUALITY AND UNIQUENESS OF THEIR DUNGEONS. http://www.made2game.com/articles/Features/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim/26218/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-hands-on-What-a-difference-a-level-designer-makes/Dexter111 said:The Witcher 2 has like 14+ GB of assets, RAGE had 24GB... they've put 3-5+ years of meticulous detail work into making their worlds breathing out of every pore with lots of unique stuff and hand-designed levels and they're both orders of magnitude smaller than "Skyrim", but even one or two major parts of those games contain more "content" than Skyrim does with all of its "large world" and all of its assets fitting in around 5GB, because aside from procedural algorithms to grow that grass and this plant on that specified terrain type, this is how they are likely designing most of it...
Then go play those games. Obviously the Elder Scrolls series is not for you.Dexter111 said:Personally, I'd rather play any other number of games, from Batman: Arkham City, Saint's Row 3, L.A. Noire to yes even Battlefield 3 or Star Wars: The Old Republic (I ended up rather enjoying the Beta and Pre-Ordering it) as I was able to extract a lot more enjoyment out of any of those than Skyrim.
They aren't really bad guys, more like anti-heroes. You're assassinating bad people. In the world of the Elder Scrolls, it seems like you have to be a gigantic douche to have someone turn the Dark Brotherhood on you.Kanatatsu said:I destroyed the Dark Brotherhood.cmdrmonkey said:The Dark Brotherhood gives you a fuckton of money. Just one of their quests gives you 20,000 gold.Kanatatsu said:I don't understand how people are so rich in Skyrim if they aren't stealing.
Also, there's barely anything wortwhile in shops, all the best loot comes from adventuring, so I don't really get why being rich is such a problem.
It sounds like Yahtzee enjoyed Skyrim in his own whiney, bitchy little way.
I don't understand why so many people decide to play bad guys in this game. I'd rather be a hero.
I dont' need a potions lesson after playing 85 hours.... They. Don't. Work. The patch deleted resistance. Werewolves get vampirism, mass hysteria.Ryvaken said:Not really. Snowberries (easy to find) bonemeal (also easy) and hawk beak (so hard to find your eyes will bleed, but there's a mod for that) creates a resist all elements potion. Much higher magnitude than the easier to brew resist magic with largely the same net effect. Really cuts down on damage from enemy mages and enchanted weapons.Plurralbles said:oh, and now those resist potions don't even work. Fuck you bethesda.
Also, restore magicka potions are even more important when playing a mage. Destruction has a few issues and magicka regen is strung up by its toes and beaten to death as soon as you enter combat. Invisibility, always a good panic button.
Everything else is pretty much crap though.
Crap, forgot about the prisoner thing. Yeah, its true that you start these games as a prisoner. If by dual hand casting you mean using both hands for a spell, that's different than what was done in skyrim and oblivion. In skyrim, you can use both hands for a spell at the same time to overcharge them into a costlier, but more powerful spell. You already know how you can only equip either a spell or a weapon, which is what morrowind and I suspect daggerfall did, but you could only have either a spell or a weapon in your hands. I really enjoy Skyrim's system of switching between both hands for spells and weapons: as in having a sword in your left hand and a fireball spell in your right. Oblivion's system just equipped a spell, similar to equipping a piece of armor and allowed you to cast it regardless of what you were holding or doing. But see? That's three games with very different casting systems. I really think you are oversimplifying things when you talk about game mechanics not changing at all. I mean, if you boil it down, yeah, you swing swords and cast spells. But that's basically any fantasy game ever. If I said in Half Life 2 you just shoot guns and walk around I would also be technically correct, but I'm ignoring everything else that's going on, similar to how you are ignoring the details in Skyrim.Dexter111 said:You'd be surprised, for instance it's almost a tradition for them to have the main character be some sort of backstory-less prisoner that gets freed at the start of every game and stuff like horseback-riding and dual-hand casting was already there in Daggerfall, also barely anything has changed in regards to main game mechanics from having HP/mana and a compass, to being able to hit with the sword and cast spells etc.
Well, yeah. If, of course, by "same game concept" you mean "Fantasy RPG set in the land of Tamriel wherein you play a character." I don't see a problem with the concept, but the actual games are quite different, in spite of having the same concept.Dexter111 said:Of course there's always refinements and improvements and at least they take several years to iterate but it basically is the very same game concept over and over again...
I'm pretty sure they had level designers before, just not very good ones (especially the ones in Oblivion). I've played upwards of 100 hours and I can honestly say no two dungeons have been exactly alike. If you're complaining about the dungeons and caves having the same theme, I'm going to have to stop you right there, criminal scum.Dexter111 said:My point is that despite, finally deciding to employ such outlandish things as "level-designers" very large parts of their world still looks very samey, I posted the link just for the fact that it is the first game to have done this not the guys opinion on it. Almost every dungeon and cave in Skyrim is still comprised of almost the same basic few tile sets that are repeated... it gets really boring after a while, even if they decided to not actually copy/paste the very same layout like in their previous games.
Obviously I don't believe they hand plant every blade of grass. I just disagree with your implication that they arranged the whole game by putting down a big "X here" stamp and then didn't even bother to look at it.Dexter111 said:I'm not making stuff up... I just happen to know how some of this stuff works, you can't make a game with the land-mass of say Oblivion or Morrowind without procedural algorithms and it's a rather easy way of doing it by specifying a "area/land-type" to a certain land mass and the computer will do the grass and plants and similar from there, or do you honestly believe that they put every blade of grass into the game itself?
Just Google it for a bit, there's articles about it... for instance here:
http://www.mxac.com.au/drt/OblivionProcedural.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion
That doesn't mean the developers pressed the "Make the game button" and fucked off to twiddle their fingers. Also, to be fair, the mapping in Oblivion was quite bad, there wasn't much flow when you went between two already mapped areas, it always seemed to snap into another territory, but I never felt that way when I traversed around skyrim, so I don't think the oblivion map really applies.Dexter111 said:There's also a pretty good nice looking Oblivion "Google Earth" type map here, which makes this obvious: http://www.uesp.net/maps/obmap/obmap.shtml
There's a clear separation between area types and within those area-types there are clear recurring patterns over and over again.
I completely disagree with your supposition that less work went into Skyrim's creation than W2 and RAGE. As for the few different city types, there were always different city types in Morrowind and Oblivion. You're being a little deceptive here: Every main city in Skyrim is unique. There are some similar looking towns in terms of their style that varies throughout the landscape, but that's kind of dependent on where you are, although there is always an underlying theme between all of them: they're nordic. They were built by either ancient nords or current day nords, so of course they have to look similar.Dexter111 said:I also wasn't talking about how "good" a game is, but about the amount of work that went into its creation and while every indoor and outdoor environment in The Witcher 2 and RAGE is truly different looking and also feels different that can hardly be said for any of the Bethesda games, including Skyrim (although as I said, they improved slightly... for instance they had a few different city types for once).
I can't find one. Neither could you. So maybe we should not assume that Bethesda made skyrim on a glorified MSPaint until we either see direct evidence or the game designer flat out say how they made it.Dexter111 said:I also included that video just because it describes rather well how a "brush" tool for plants, trees and rocks etc. works too as that is what is being used in most of these "Sandbox" games, I could obviously not find a video of a Bethesda developer creating a level for Oblivion or Skyrim... if you can find any you're welcome to show it![]()
Don't get me wrong, you sound like a fair, upstanding gentleman who obviously knows his way around video games, but its just so very strange to find somebody with a perfectly opposite opinion of a game. I truly enjoy skyrim, from its art design, to gameplay, to sound, to story, to even giants that can catapult me up to the sky. In fact, it has become one of my favorite games of all time from the sheer amount of fun, immersion and story that the game has presented to me. I have argued with friends about character motivations, story elements and even the large number of grey moral choices that the game presents. The gorgeous sweeping landscapes, the interesting tomes and notes from those long or recently dead... To find somebody who calls it bland and boring is just something that strikes me dumbfounded. My experience was so positive and enriching that to hear(or see, in this case) somebody saying things that are literally opposite to things I had experienced is just beyond my ken.Dexter111 said:I am and I will, I played Skyrim to about the part where I was supposed to collect some Horn for the Greybeards and had explored about 3 of the main cities and quite a few of the caves etc. till I got bored by it and moved on to other titles, I've played through both L.A. Noire and Saint's Row 3 (in Co-Op by the way, which improved the enjoyment of the game a lot) and also played the SWTOR Beta amongst other things... still haven't started Batman yet as I'm waiting on a clear up about their DRM and the DirectX 11 support and I don't think I'll be returning to Skyrim at any time.
You mean time that could of been equally wasted porting Oblivion models without consent or making yet another Sephiroth outfit/sword?Elmoth said:I really wish I didn't know this, or that this was true. But the first was already made. So many modeling hours that could be used on cool enemies/weapons . . . gone . . .
While it's predictable, it also kind of makes sense. You have a game that lets you do pretty much whatever you want, EXCEPT a few things. You tell a human they can't do X, and they'll try do it. Then Bethesda has the cruel sense of humour to make kids jerks who are also invincible.Jennacide said:I love in the end credits he knows that there will be nude mods and child murder mods. The second one having been already made. The mod community can be nice, but also stupidly predictable at times.
There is nothing cruel about it though. Bethesda wanted to play it safe since games have come under a ton of scrunity lately. Fallout may of allowed child murder before, since you could kill anything, but that was when it was a niche game and went completely unnoticed. After fiascos like Fox News and Mass Effects 'explicit alien fornication' Bethesda hedged their bets, and I don't blame them one bit.Slayer_2 said:While it's predictable, it also kind of makes sense. You have a game that lets you do pretty much whatever you want, EXCEPT a few things. You tell a human they can't do X, and they'll try do it. Then Bethesda has the cruel sense of humour to make kids jerks who are also invincible.Jennacide said:I love in the end credits he knows that there will be nude mods and child murder mods. The second one having been already made. The mod community can be nice, but also stupidly predictable at times.
Its changed a lot. In Arena/Daggerfall you could create a spell that could wipe out a whole village in one blow,Dexter111 said:Snippitysnip
I once again disagree with you saying all the dungeons are the same and have no point. Same theme =/= the same. And if you're telling me you can't see the point to them, did you completely forget that plot point about you gathering dragon shouts? Because with many dungeons, that's what's laying at the bottom. Not to mention how most dungeons have an associated quest or contain a little story. I think what you did was just scratch the surface, because when I think back, I recall nearly all of my dungeon visits to be memorable and different.Dexter111 said:What almost all of those story-based plotline games have in common is a carefully hand-crafted experience, and even in the case of the "Open-World" RPGs I actually like, like Gothic or Risen there's a high degree of care that went into the level and game design.
For instance, every single dungeon is an entirely different experience for itself and wasn't just put there because "you can enter it and kill some undead", they are all different and offer a challenge, different puzzles and a goal, which I find a lot more fun and interesting, even if that means it's "only" ~10-15 fully-built and designed dungeons instead of the "amazing" number of 120+ that all look and feel almost the same (or have no point to them) I'd take those over the others any day.
Look closer at what you're doing than not at all. Read books. Go for hikes. Also do those things in skyrim. You'll notice more care went into this game than you would like to admit.Dexter111 said:Never could particularly get along with Bethesda games because of the reasons above, if a (inherently not very creative) computer algorithm can create something, why should I waste my time playing it? Most of that stuff seems like padding to me.
I thought I could respect you for knowing your stuff, then you end this passage with a smiley face. And your argument is strawmanning me in a way. I admitted the stuff looks similar, and I offered that because it was all built in the nordic way, it would look similar. I'll admit to you that yes, a lot if not most of the inns look the goddamn same. And some towns have eerily similar layouts. But you must recall, a lot of this was commanded to be built by The Empire, who I'm pretty sure have stringent building policies. I never said it all looked the same, so you're just putting words in my mouth there. I will once again press the point: These be nordic empire lands. The smaller towns will be similar because they lack materials and money that larger cities have. They are built not for style, but for necessity. I see this and understand this. I really don't see what the problem is. I'll concede that there are building which look the same (mostly inns and watermills), but if you actually take a longer look, you'll see the differences.Dexter111 said:And I keep hearing that argument about "it plays in the same xxx region, of course it looks the same" and it just sounds like an excuse for laziness and lack of creativity, as they are completely open about how to design their game, what to include and where to set it etc. or also how the landscape will look from the very start... kind of like saying "my game plays in complete darkness, of course you're not able to see anything!" just on another level to get away from actually doing the work xD
Those are watermills. Windmills use wind and watermills use water. I think I've seen maybe like 2 windmills while most towns have watermills if they're next to a river. Only makes sense though, might as well harvest that water power if its there.Dexter111 said:As for the city types, the same applies, sure they're going to have a different-looking layout, that's the least you can ask from them, but the base building-blocks (like the models of the houses and other buildings outside... for instance those windmills are like everywhere are usually the very same and they barely put any work into it, the few taverns I entered also all look the same (from inside), they just have different NPCs walking around and as I said most of the homes of a lot of people also are, there's basically small/middle sized/big house.
There aren't an infinite amount of dragons. Counting the ones whose soul you can drink, there are about 60. Then there's Alduin and Odahviing and Paarthurnax. So about 63. And these dragons are another random encounter which genuinely spice up the game even more. Hell, I was exploring Winterhold College once and went out onto the roof and a goddamn dragon did a flyby on me! I ran inside because my magic wasn't as powerful as my swords and did some tasks inside. When I went out onto another tower, the dragon was still there, circling the college. He proceeded sit on a building a breathe ice on me. I once again ran inside and healed up, did a task and then went into the central area in the college, and the dragon was still there, waiting for me. He landed, we dueled and now there is a nice little dragonbone decoration in the field of the mage's college. Now, I can give a bunch more unique dragonfighting events like I did with the dungeons, but I won't. Because I don't have the time to type it all down.Dexter111 said:Bethesda loves to employ those techniques in a lot of what they do (from terrain generation to loot, enemies, generated quests and a lot more), same thing with the "infinite" amount of dragons that can spawn everywhere... just because there's *more* of something doesn't make it better, I'd rather have had just a few distinct and very different fights than over a dozen/hundred samey ones...
Yes there is a lot of flak from anti-game lobbyists, but if you played Fallout 3 you'd know that someone had fun with making those kids as annoying as possible. In reality, those anti-game lobbyists are like a mouse attacking a battle tank, they really can't do much, gaming is a business that brings in billions, and it's quickly widening it's audience. Soon it will be as common as TV or rock and roll, other forms of media that were hated upon equally. Some people are just resistant to change.Jennacide said:There is nothing cruel about it though. Bethesda wanted to play it safe since games have come under a ton of scrunity lately. Fallout may of allowed child murder before, since you could kill anything, but that was when it was a niche game and went completely unnoticed. After fiascos like Fox News and Mass Effects 'explicit alien fornication' Bethesda hedged their bets, and I don't blame them one bit.Slayer_2 said:While it's predictable, it also kind of makes sense. You have a game that lets you do pretty much whatever you want, EXCEPT a few things. You tell a human they can't do X, and they'll try do it. Then Bethesda has the cruel sense of humour to make kids jerks who are also invincible.Jennacide said:I love in the end credits he knows that there will be nude mods and child murder mods. The second one having been already made. The mod community can be nice, but also stupidly predictable at times.
almost every complaint about skyrim boils down to "you can't break the game like you used to, waaaaahhhhhh"Nikolaz72 said:Its changed a lot. In Arena/Daggerfall you could create a spell that could wipe out a whole village in one blow,Dexter111 said:Snippitysnip
Morrowind limitted this, but you could jump so high that you would fall down and die (And unlike Skyrim, that would take like 50ft). And run ten times faster than a horse. But you couldnt quite make damagespells of total destruction and doom.
Oblivion limitted this, you could still create the same damage spells as Morrowind, but now you were kinda limitted on other points such as running and jumping.
Then we had Skyrim, no creating spells. Whatsoever. No running faster and no jumping over tall buildings, still. They took a trip back to the roots of Morrowind by allowing mountainclimbing. Kudos for that.
Call of Duty 1 - Duck behind cover, shoot stuff with rifle.
Call of Duty 2 - Better graphics Duck Behind cover, shoot stuff with rifle.
Call of Duty 3 - Better graphics, now you can instead of ducking behind cover, actually hug cover.
Call of Duty 4 - Same as other 3, but in mdoern times! Grenade launcher are now inbound.
Modern Warfare 1-2. Like 4, shorter campaign. Kind of in the episodic sense. But it was back to familiarity.
Black Ops - Modern Warfare 2, but made by another company. With a whole different story.
Modern Ware 3 - End of story, follows mostly same gameplay with no real major changes to Call of Duty 1. Except perhaps the loss of dedicated servers.. Although that isnt exactly excluse to this game, nor is it gameplay. Nor was it actually MW3.
Now I must admit, if you played Call of Duty changed from being a semi-realstic for the time WW2 shooter, to going to a semi-realistic for the time Modern Shooter. To going completely batshitcrazy B-actionmoviestyle with the story and abandoning most senses of logic it had![]()
And if you only played as a meele fighter Arena through Skyrim. I can see your point, only thing to really change then is the enchanted gear. Because of the magic, but then again. If you since Arena have played a warrior scared to merchants and enchanting and everything magic (God you're boring) Then you wouldnt have noticed much of a change besides graphics.