Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D

Haru17

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Good, now Yahtzee just needs to not cop out of reviewing the new Monster Hunter game.
 

FiveSpeedf150

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Silentpony said:
I always thought Majoras Mask was one of the weaker of the Zelda games. Yeah the time mechanic was unique, but as Yahtzee points out, its never been done again. I found the combination of a timer, resetting previous work and obtuse story elements/clues very difficult. There would be entire loops(the 3 days) that would come and go and I'd be wandering the land looking for whatever I'm supposed to do, usually finding it on the last day, reversing time, going to that one point and oh! That person isn't here yet, because I didn't know that my earlier actions A, B and 5 led up to this specific scenario. Well back to wandering the land again...Would love to know which actions triggered which events...

I guess now that we have the internet and walkthroughs it'd be easier, but it doesn't have a good impression in my day.
Thanatos2k said:
I have always hated Majora's Mask and never got what anyone saw in it. I hated that you were stuck with Young Link after Ocarina of Time. I hated that you had to replay gameplay sections over and over and over again. I hated that it took your money and items away every time you rewound time. I hated the "Gotta find this NPC at this specific time" system. I hated the general lack of direction and obtuse objectives. I hated the Skull Kid. I hated the Deku Scrubs. I hated Tingle so. damn. much.

The entire game felt like a downgrade after Ocarina.


Thank you both. I always thought I was the only one who felt this way.

The time mechanic was a buzzkill and I never really felt buy-in with the game like OoT. Maybe if I revisit it as a 27YO instead of a middle school kid, but somehow I doubt it...
 

Super Cyborg

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FiveSpeedf150 said:
Silentpony said:
I always thought Majoras Mask was one of the weaker of the Zelda games. Yeah the time mechanic was unique, but as Yahtzee points out, its never been done again. I found the combination of a timer, resetting previous work and obtuse story elements/clues very difficult. There would be entire loops(the 3 days) that would come and go and I'd be wandering the land looking for whatever I'm supposed to do, usually finding it on the last day, reversing time, going to that one point and oh! That person isn't here yet, because I didn't know that my earlier actions A, B and 5 led up to this specific scenario. Well back to wandering the land again...Would love to know which actions triggered which events...

I guess now that we have the internet and walkthroughs it'd be easier, but it doesn't have a good impression in my day.
Thanatos2k said:
I have always hated Majora's Mask and never got what anyone saw in it. I hated that you were stuck with Young Link after Ocarina of Time. I hated that you had to replay gameplay sections over and over and over again. I hated that it took your money and items away every time you rewound time. I hated the "Gotta find this NPC at this specific time" system. I hated the general lack of direction and obtuse objectives. I hated the Skull Kid. I hated the Deku Scrubs. I hated Tingle so. damn. much.

The entire game felt like a downgrade after Ocarina.


Thank you both. I always thought I was the only one who felt this way.

The time mechanic was a buzzkill and I never really felt buy-in with the game like OoT. Maybe if I revisit it as a 27YO instead of a middle school kid, but somehow I doubt it...
It was an acquired taste for me. I liked it enough as a kid, and when I replayed it years ago, I liked it a bit better, but only recently have I been able to appreciate more than just the surface stuff, so I'll be replaying it again sometime.

I think the time-mechanic is a make it or break it deal with people. Some people like the challenge it can provide, even if tedious at times. Others may not care for it. It is a game where if you want to beat it without a guide you have to go to many places many times and just wait until something happens. It can be tedious for some quests where you miss or mess up a certain detail, and have to start all over again.

Majora's Mask is one of my more favorite ones, but I also seem to be a weird fan (when it comes to the consensus of games), as I seem to like a number of games that people dislike to outright hate.
 

Enlong

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Haru17 said:
Good, now Yahtzee just needs to not cop out of reviewing the new Monster Hunter game.
Quick question; Do you actually think a Monster Hunter 4 review would be any different than the Tri review?

What of the early portions of monster hunter have changed that he would go any further than the Great Jaggi with 4?

Tri was a pretty lame episode, and more of the same wouldn't be an enjoyable video.
 

Enlong

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NeutralDrow said:
"Link having no character."

...oh, right, he never got past the first dungeon of Skyward Sword, did he.

*hurriedly slams wormcan shut*

Still, happy to see Yahtzee enjoy a Zelda game. Especially my favorite one.
He played enough of Skyward Sword to be annoyed by the Tadtone worth-proving bit, if I recall correctly.

...personally, I felt Skyward Sword had the most expressive Link since Wind Waker, but eh.
 

JCAll

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Darth_Payn said:
The bit about Skull-kid, the guy with a rotten pineapple for a face, got me thinking: do any of the Links (yeah, there's more than one, if you follow the multiple timeline theory) have any truly memorable antagonists who AREN'T Ganon/Ganondorf. I do like it when Yahtzee reviews a Zelda game, and especially ripping into Link's lack of a personality. He also ragged on Gordon Freeman for pretty much the same qualities.
Vaati was a great villain. He was kinda just there in both Four Swords games, but really came into his own in The Minish Cap. It's sad that's he has been completely back-burnered. I also found The Windfish's Nightmares in Link's Awakening to have a really original motivation, even if it was summed up in a few lines just before the final battle.
 

Mordecai Hunter

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Why aren't the videos playing for me? I keep getting that stupid advert that begins with a guy talking about a waterslide...
 

vagabondwillsmile

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Sadly, I couldn't finish watching the review as it looking like I was about to wonder into spoiler territory. I have yet to play the game myself and am quite keen on doing so.

But the 1 minute and 20 seconds I did watch (up to link getting his teeth kicked in) were very funny.
 

Twinrehz

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CaitSeith said:
Yes, you triumph.
SPOILERS, by the way...
[video=9791]
That video is pure speculation, and the points in it are countered by two other speculation videos on youtube, and the points they make against this one video make much more sense. I recommend go watching them, because I also thought this video made sense until I saw the other videos. (Search for "Link is not dead" on youtube, should be relatively easy to find).

Aptspire said:
Btw, Yahtzee. When that scarecrow dude says: I know a song that, played backwards, slows down time, and double played (i.e. 11,22,33) speeds it up, it's a song you already have.

Otherwise, glad you enjoyed it.
It's kinda poorly explained, and if Yahtzee simply ignored the scare crow (as his place in the story isn't very clear in the first place, except as a hookshot target), then that info would be ignored/missed. Also he's a reviewer with somewhat limited time, not like us nerds who spend 500 hours contemplating every aspect of the games we play.
 

immortalfrieza

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Dead Century said:
Darth_Payn said:
The bit about Skull-kid, the guy with a rotten pineapple for a face, got me thinking: do any of the Links (yeah, there's more than one, if you follow the multiple timeline theory) have any truly memorable antagonists who AREN'T Ganon/Ganondorf.
There's General Onox and Veran from the Oracle games. and I thought they were pretty badass. I'm really sick of the Ganon/Zelda/Link trifecta of pre-destined nonsense. That story has been retold one too many times. I'm hoping Zelda Wii U creates a completely new antagonist.
You know, I wouldn't mind Ganon being a villain all the time if he actually did something in the games and had some real personality. Mostly Ganon just shows up once or twice throughout the game, does something generically evil, then sits in his castle or whatever waiting for Link to show up. If Ganon was a more proactive villain that actually got off his butt and tried to stall or stop Link's efforts and/or cause death and destruction throughout the game rather than having his monsters do it (which tend to have even less of a personality than Ganon does) I might even like having Ganon around all the time.
 

Vlado

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Majora's Mask is so much better than Ocarina it's not even funny. Much more fascinating setting, interesting gameplay mechanics, an actual feeling of vulnerability many times, and actually fun sidequests.
 

Haru17

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Enlong said:
Haru17 said:
Good, now Yahtzee just needs to not cop out of reviewing the new Monster Hunter game.
Quick question; Do you actually think a Monster Hunter 4 review would be any different than the Tri review?

What of the early portions of monster hunter have changed that he would go any further than the Great Jaggi with 4?

Tri was a pretty lame episode, and more of the same wouldn't be an enjoyable video.
I'm dropping the gauntlet, so to speak. I can't take someone who praises Dark Souls, but doesn't appreciate Monster Hunter seriously. Monster Hunter is Demon Soul's predecessor by half a decade and is undoubtedly more accessibly and less obscure. I really love MH's game design; all boss battles, learning attack animations and timing attacks, and crafting from monster parts.

I hate most multiplayer and Monster Hunter is the one game I prefer in multiplayer; because it's all cooperative and you can use team coordination and tactics. It's just an amazing ARPG series that focuses on some of the best boss battles there ever were.

And 4U has much less gathering at the start, so it's easy to get into.
 

Thanatos2k

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Super Cyborg said:
It was an acquired taste for me. I liked it enough as a kid, and when I replayed it years ago, I liked it a bit better, but only recently have I been able to appreciate more than just the surface stuff, so I'll be replaying it again sometime.

I think the time-mechanic is a make it or break it deal with people. Some people like the challenge it can provide, even if tedious at times. Others may not care for it. It is a game where if you want to beat it without a guide you have to go to many places many times and just wait until something happens. It can be tedious for some quests where you miss or mess up a certain detail, and have to start all over again.
It's more like "Now you can read all the finely detailed walkthroughs that tell you how to get everything."

Back in the year 2000, there were not the resources you have today, especially for those with limited internet access. Without the help, you really had no idea what the hell to do in that game.
 

Twinrehz

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immortalfrieza said:
You know, I wouldn't mind Ganon being a villain all the time if he actually did something in the games and had some real personality. Mostly Ganon just shows up once or twice throughout the game, does something generically evil, then sits in his castle or whatever waiting for Link to show up. If Ganon was a more proactive villain that actually got off his butt and tried to stall or stop Link's efforts and/or cause death and destruction throughout the game rather than having his monsters do it (which tend to have even less of a personality than Ganon does) I might even like having Ganon around all the time.
In Ocarina of Time, the story basically tells you that Ganondorf has visited the Deku Tree (which is why it died), the Gorons (where he blocked Dodongo's Cavern and presumably oversized a lizard to King Dodongo), and Zora's Fountain, (throwing some curse on Lord Jabu-Jabu). While it's certainly proactive, as in before the story even starts, it's not so much stalling Link in any way as it is creating an adventure for him in the first place, it at least shows he's done SOMETHING. I'm not certain if he's involved in any of the temples Link visits as an adult, but there is Shadow Ganon in Forest Temple.

He is however underestimating the game's protagonist by a fairly huge amount. I mean if he paid any attention to the script he'd see that this is the guy he should be stopping...

Anyway enough about that, my point is while you don't see much of Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, when he's not busy chasing princesses and their totally hot lesbian guardians (thank you, Honest Game Trailers for that unforgettable line), he's at least shown to do something, even if that's not a whole lot.

Also why is captcha moving around now?
 

Aineko

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Twinrehz said:
I'm not certain if he's involved in any of the temples Link visits as an adult, but there is Shadow Ganon in Forest Temple.

He is however underestimating the game's protagonist by a fairly huge amount. I mean if he paid any attention to the script he'd see that this is the guy he should be stopping...
Doesn't Ganondorf say that he allowed Link to progress that far to draw out Zelda and Link's own Triforce?

On Majora's Mask, when I play it I always try to get as many quests completed when coming into the final cycle, especially the main ones like Kafei+Anju, the ranch quests, the temple bosses, etc. With good planning you can actually do nearly everything, on my 3DS playthrough the only significant quests I couldn't do were the stray faeries in the temples. I know it's kinda meaningless from the point of view of the game, but it makes me feel good about myself :p
 

immortalfrieza

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Twinrehz said:
immortalfrieza said:
You know, I wouldn't mind Ganon being a villain all the time if he actually did something in the games and had some real personality. Mostly Ganon just shows up once or twice throughout the game, does something generically evil, then sits in his castle or whatever waiting for Link to show up. If Ganon was a more proactive villain that actually got off his butt and tried to stall or stop Link's efforts and/or cause death and destruction throughout the game rather than having his monsters do it (which tend to have even less of a personality than Ganon does) I might even like having Ganon around all the time.
In Ocarina of Time, the story basically tells you that Ganondorf has visited the Deku Tree (which is why it died), the Gorons (where he blocked Dodongo's Cavern and presumably oversized a lizard to King Dodongo), and Zora's Fountain, (throwing some curse on Lord Jabu-Jabu). While it's certainly proactive, as in before the story even starts, it's not so much stalling Link in any way as it is creating an adventure for him in the first place, it at least shows he's done SOMETHING. I'm not certain if he's involved in any of the temples Link visits as an adult, but there is Shadow Ganon in Forest Temple.

He is however underestimating the game's protagonist by a fairly huge amount. I mean if he paid any attention to the script he'd see that this is the guy he should be stopping...

Anyway enough about that, my point is while you don't see much of Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, when he's not busy chasing princesses and their totally hot lesbian guardians (thank you, Honest Game Trailers for that unforgettable line), he's at least shown to do something, even if that's not a whole lot.

Also why is captcha moving around now?
I am aware that prior to the beginning of most games Ganon does plenty, and that's part of the problem. In most games any evil he is personally shown doing is limited to before the game even starts, and maybe one or two moments after. He's never a villain that actively fights the hero's progress and causes death, destruction, and misery by his own hand throughout the land that the hero has to clean up frequently throughout most of the game, and if he does it's almost never something we get to witness, thus making room to have more than a generic "this bad guy has to be stopped" personality and motivations. Ganon might be going off doing evil off screen the entire time, but as far as we the players can see Ganon might as well only exist during the very brief glimpses we see of him and at no other time. The fact that Ganon is so proactive prior to most games even starting only makes the fact he's so sedimentary during the games themselves all the more annoying because it shows he's perfectly capable of doing something.

Ocarina of Time is actually one of the few Zelda games that does a good job of justifying Ganondorf acting like that, since in the child portion Link is supposed to be under the radar and Gandondorf can't do anything until Link gets the Master Sword anyway, and during the adult portion that he's actually letting Link do as he likes because he knows Link will eventually draw out Zelda, but for most games he doesn't have an excuse like that not to be trying to stop you or wreck Hyrule or anything like that when Link goes around killing his minions and screwing up his plans left and right.
 

Cpt. Slow

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I've noticed that Yahtzee downloaded subscribed himself to Momsteachingteens*. Or he is just one very sick puppy. Anyhow, I've only played Windwaker and the Legend of Zelda on the NES once upon a time. It's nice to see that they properly converted it to the 3DS though. But then again, Nintendo is so skilled at porting games from their old consoles to new ones because that's all they ever do these days.


[color=C0C0C0]*Caution: Googling this website is only allowed if you are over 18 or older. Please check your local laws regarding pornography. And if you are under 18, visiting this site will cause your brain to melt and your eyes to explode in their sockets & will make baby Jesus cry.[/color]
 

Enlong

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immortalfrieza said:
Twinrehz said:
immortalfrieza said:
You know, I wouldn't mind Ganon being a villain all the time if he actually did something in the games and had some real personality. Mostly Ganon just shows up once or twice throughout the game, does something generically evil, then sits in his castle or whatever waiting for Link to show up. If Ganon was a more proactive villain that actually got off his butt and tried to stall or stop Link's efforts and/or cause death and destruction throughout the game rather than having his monsters do it (which tend to have even less of a personality than Ganon does) I might even like having Ganon around all the time.
In Ocarina of Time, the story basically tells you that Ganondorf has visited the Deku Tree (which is why it died), the Gorons (where he blocked Dodongo's Cavern and presumably oversized a lizard to King Dodongo), and Zora's Fountain, (throwing some curse on Lord Jabu-Jabu). While it's certainly proactive, as in before the story even starts, it's not so much stalling Link in any way as it is creating an adventure for him in the first place, it at least shows he's done SOMETHING. I'm not certain if he's involved in any of the temples Link visits as an adult, but there is Shadow Ganon in Forest Temple.

He is however underestimating the game's protagonist by a fairly huge amount. I mean if he paid any attention to the script he'd see that this is the guy he should be stopping...

Anyway enough about that, my point is while you don't see much of Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, when he's not busy chasing princesses and their totally hot lesbian guardians (thank you, Honest Game Trailers for that unforgettable line), he's at least shown to do something, even if that's not a whole lot.

Also why is captcha moving around now?
I am aware that prior to the beginning of most games Ganon does plenty, and that's part of the problem. In most games any evil he is personally shown doing is limited to before the game even starts, and maybe one or two moments after. He's never a villain that actively fights the hero's progress and causes death, destruction, and misery by his own hand throughout the land that the hero has to clean up frequently throughout most of the game, and if he does it's almost never something we get to witness, thus making room to have more than a generic "this bad guy has to be stopped" personality and motivations. Ganon might be going off doing evil off screen the entire time, but as far as we the players can see Ganon might as well only exist during the very brief glimpses we see of him and at no other time. The fact that Ganon is so proactive prior to most games even starting only makes the fact he's so sedimentary during the games themselves all the more annoying because it shows he's perfectly capable of doing something.

Ocarina of Time is actually one of the few Zelda games that does a good job of justifying Ganondorf acting like that, since in the child portion Link is supposed to be under the radar and Gandondorf can't do anything until Link gets the Master Sword anyway, and during the adult portion that he's actually letting Link do as he likes because he knows Link will eventually draw out Zelda, but for most games he doesn't have an excuse like that not to be trying to stop you or wreck Hyrule or anything like that when Link goes around killing his minions and screwing up his plans left and right.
Skyward Sword has a villain kind of like what you're asking for. Ghirahim is actively looking for the things he needs to awaken his master, and acts as a dungeon boss twice, personally makes bosses to fight Link another two times, and shows up at the end of another dungeon to try and kill the person guarding Zelda. I think it's just the Sandship that doesn't have him showing up in some capacity to try to ruin your day. Not for him the "waiting for the hero in some castle" method of villainy.