Zero Punctuation: Tomb Raider

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Captain Walker (i.e. me) didn't decide to use white phosphorus. The developers forced us to use it.

Yes that is correct. However...

Spoiler: spoilers for Spec Ops

When you reach the two hanging guys or the refugee camp, the set-up is exactly the same. Only this time you do have a choice, but the player assuming they are being railroaded can do the evil dead anyway without looking for another way.

Its another way the developers can point to you and say it was your choice, you didn't look hard enough.

 

[Carnagath]

I really liked Spec Ops but I feel it would've made its point a little better if you could actually turn around and leave like you were supposed to at any point.

Do the other modern milsims give you the option? You are doing horrific things, but the games say it's all for the best, because it's the way to proceed. Now you have the option to witness up close and personal one of these situations where things didn't turn out well. It's showing you there's a disconnect between the things that you do in games and what they are portrayed as.

Spoiler

It's no wonder Captain Wanker goes mad. Any sane person would. But he really doesn't have a choice... there's an uncaring unfeeling force driving him forward no matter what. He also want's to believe everything he does has some kind of purpose and that it turns out well. But there is no mission for him there. It's a lot like real life, really.

The game asks these questions not only on the personal level, but also on a wider cultural level. What kind of culture is it that thinks gunning people down or sneaking up to a bloke and slitting his throat is jolly good fun? Soldiers are lauded as heroes, but those that come back from "action" more often than not aren't inclined to talk about what they did or saw.

You, along with Spec Ops's devs, seem to be confusing real life violence with videogame violence. You can't draw cultural conclusions based on some videogame's violence, since, as with violence in movies, it's purely aesthetic. There is no victim and no actual immorality attached to it. What I did, as a player, was play a game, where polygons interact in a way that I may fight entertaining and/or cathartic given my disposition at that specific time. While I was doing that, someone else in the world was actually stabbing someone in the face. You can form a statement from the latter, but not really from the former, at least not a statement of any practical value. Guilt tripping people for playing videogames is completely ignorant, and when you are the one who actually made the game it borders on insane. Or insanely hypocritical and pretentious.

 

[daxterx2005]

just wait till we get a Tomb raider Uncharted cross over...

 

[Ariseishirou]

I don't get it, Yahtzee. You say you don't like it when a game makes all challenges optional and there's no difficulty, yet you ragequit games like Demons' Souls when it forces you to complete difficult challenges to continue. You can't have it both ways.

 

[head desk tricycle]

I don't think that cutscenes and storylines and arbitrary objectives automatically ruin the feeling of being in control. For example, GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas both had roughly equal amounts of that stuff, but Vice City makes me feel like I'm Tommy Vercetti, and GTA San Andreas makes me feel like I'm just watching the adventures of this separate guy named Carl Johnson. Or Majora's Mask, that game starts with a massive cutscene that seems to never end, but it does such a great job of pulling me into the game's creepy world that it doesn't bother me even a little bit.

 

[Onliuge]

Tomb Raider

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Tomb Raider.

Watch Video

Yahtzee, your next review will be on my birthday. I would like you to seem somewhat happy on my birthday. So I recommend two games, Terraria and Magicka. Have a good week.

 

[floppylobster]

Life makes so much more sense to me now I know the document bunny exists.

 

[floppylobster]

I too held off on the QTE in the "rape scene" to see how it unfolded, and turns out he was just trying to kill her just like every other murderer on the island. So the people who condemned this game (and the developers) for that scene will be feeling like a right bunch of sillies now won't they?

Oh wait, they're nowhere to be seen! Gosh, I wonder where they went, I wonder what happened to the controversy...it's so unlike them to suddenly vanish after the game's release like that, never happened before...

Is there any chance the developer's changed the outcome of that QTE once the controversy started brewing? It seems like an easy fix with a few months development time still in hand (unlike Resident Evil 5's 'problems')

 

[romxxii]

I have to agree with a lot of people this game was very fun, but like was said in the review I was not invested in her emotionally during the gameplay. Though I will say there were some touching moments when she was interacting with her friends (friends by the way that I thought were 100 times more interesting then Lara and wanted to know their story, RIP stereotypical Irishman).

Also something he didn't touch on in the review, did anyone else notice this game suffered from some completely useless skills? Why would you offer me to point out all the optional tombs on the map when the game will do that for me anyways if you get within a mile of them?

Gotta agree with the skill "tree" being underdeveloped. My problem was, even before the game ends, with minimal item hunting, you can max out all the skills. In fact, in my extended post-game run through, 10 minutes in and I've already gotten 2 useless skill points, because I've already bought everything.

That said, I actually enjoyed the game a lot. I wouldn't call the plot brilliant, but it did the job. Plus, parkouring through those levels always felt intuitive.

 

[mrhateful]

I think Zero hit it the nail on the head in terms of problems with the game. That said I still think it was enjoyable.

 

[romxxii]

[the spec ops PC] decides to use the white phosphorous!

Eh? No he doesn't. It's not optional. Unless you count "stop playing the game" as an option. But then TR has that option too.

"stop playing the game" was being subtly hinted at with Spec Ops, and the hint got stronger the longer you stayed in the game.

Tomb Raider, on the other hand, encouraged you to push through, be a big girl, and kill all the cultists. "Stop playing the game" isn't really an option, in terms of the narrative.

 

[Metalrocks]

had some good points but but the game as such is still fun.
and wrong, in spec ops you dint had the option if you want to use the phosphorous. you had to. in TR at least you had the option if you go stealthy or just shoot down every time you see someone.
yes, the game does have a lot of action but at the same time the character is well explained. but i have to agree that the side characters arent really well explained. especially sam. we hardly know anything about her and she is laras best friend.

 

[Zetatrain]

Captain Walker (i.e. me) didn't decide to use white phosphorus. The developers forced us to use it.

You are not making captain walkers decisions..it's not a role playing game, or a decision based game.

I can understand it gets confusing because you are given the illusion of choice and your brain decides it's a typical choice based game like mass effect or something...but it's not.

That would be like saying; 'the Tomb Raider developers made me kill all those islanders'. It's not a valid critique

And that somehow makes it okay?

Also, I don't remember making you the official Decider of What Is and Isn't Valid Critiques.

It's not a valid critique of the story since whether or not the player has any choice in the matter is a gameplay element not a story element.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

[the spec ops PC] decides to use the white phosphorous!

Eh? No he doesn't. It's not optional. Unless you count "stop playing the game" as an option. But then TR has that option too.

"stop playing the game" was being subtly hinted at with Spec Ops, and the hint got stronger the longer you stayed in the game.

Tomb Raider, on the other hand, encouraged you to push through, be a big girl, and kill all the cultists.

I don't get what difference that makes. There was still no "decision" in either game.

"Stop playing the game" isn't really an option, in terms of the narrative.

True - for both games.

Edit:

Yahtzee could be talking about decisions made by the character rather than the player... actually probably is talking about that come to think of it... now I feel dumb... but anyway, even then it's still an odd point to make. It's not like Lara doesn't make any decisions. Does Yahtzee think characters have to make bad decisions to develop? That'd be, well, wrong.

Regardless, I think Lara has a great character arc by videogame standards (bearing in mind that most AAA games don't have any PC character arc at all).

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Yahtzee could be talking about decisions made by the character rather than the player... actually probably is talking about that come to think of it... now I feel dumb... but anyway, even then it's still an odd point to make. It's not like Lara doesn't make any decisions. Does Yahtzee think characters have to make bad decisions to develop? That'd be, well, wrong.

Regardless, I think Lara has a great character arc by videogame standards (bearing in mind that most AAA games don't have any PC character arc at all).

It's not an odd point at all. Difficult decisions build character, easy ones don't.

Difficult: Do I use this chemical weapon and kill civilians or face almost certain death?
Easy: Do I try to survive and save my friends or give up and go sulk in a cave (and probably die anyway)?

Not to mention in Tomb Raider Lara is being encouraged and propelled constantly by her friends, and doing anything else than what she does would get her killed along with her friends. For any sane person, there's no choice at all.

 

[Balkan]

Captain Walker (i.e. me) didn't decide to use white phosphorus. The developers forced us to use it.

You have to press a button to use it, you make the call. If you were so fucking disgusted with it there always was the option to stop playing.

Oh bog off. That is not a choice.

Are they making a game or are they making a statement? If they're making a statement, then they don't get to charge me fifty bucks for it.

Imagine if PETA charged money for the Pokemon murder simulator game, they'd be laughed off the internet!

http://www.agonybooth.com/video784_Spec_Ops_The_Line_Tactical_Shooter.aspx

You can still play it, the "statement" as you call it is just part of the whole game. The whole point of the game is to show how casualy we use military FPSes to imagine doing things that are pretty fucked up in the real world. The Line never blames the player for being a bad man just because he likes games likes games.

 

[Khanht Cope]

Yahtzee could be talking about decisions made by the character rather than the player... actually probably is talking about that come to think of it... now I feel dumb... but anyway, even then it's still an odd point to make. It's not like Lara doesn't make any decisions. Does Yahtzee think characters have to make bad decisions to develop? That'd be, well, wrong.

Regardless, I think Lara has a great character arc by videogame standards (bearing in mind that most AAA games don't have any PC character arc at all).

It's not an odd point at all. Difficult decisions build character, easy ones don't.

Difficult: Do I use this chemical weapon and kill civilians or face almost certain death?
Easy: Do I try to survive and save my friends or give up and go sulk in a cave (and probably die anyway)?

Not to mention in Tomb Raider Lara is being encouraged and propelled constantly by her friends, and doing anything else than what she does would get her killed along with her friends. For any sane person, there's no choice at all.

Can't say I'm convinced by that. I'm not informed on the narrative of Spec Ops; but Walker's case appears to be a dilemma, which is more of a 'test' of character. How does the chosen option of using the weapon OR dying "build" Walker's character?

The option where he lives can certainly affect and change it in the long run, I'll say that.

Additionally, easy decisions can build character. Taking responsibility builds character; even if you get there by taking longer, initially-seeming easier route by running away from it until you find yourself with nowhere left to run and are all but forced to take responsibility.

Walker's decision appears to be between cowardice (which does not build character) or death; whereas Lara's presented decision appears to be between courage (which builds character) or death.

Those old fashioned hard-line disciplinary institutions used to be popular for building character because of this.

 

[chikusho]

Walker's decision appears to be between cowardice (which does not build character) or death; whereas Lara's presented decision appears to be between courage (which builds character) or death.

Why wouldn't cowardice be able to build character?

 

[TheSchaef]

In honor of the timeless masterpiece Sonic '06, I humbly suggest you name the sections of Tomb Raider, where you are told the play is freeform but in practice it is still on-rails, as Mach Speed Sections. So now you have a damnable colloquialism for this stupid mechanic, just as we have the damnable colloquialism "Quick Time Event".

 

[Khanht Cope]

Cowardice simply does not build character, it is regressive. What that decision does present is an opportunity for the character to develope in how he goes about coping with the trauma. He can use that experience to either regress or develope.