No, but the mechanics are remarkably similar. That was a tongue-in-cheek remark, BTW.truckspond said:
Zero Punctuation: WATCH_DOGS
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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When I played this game, I got a huge redux of the original Saint's Row feel. Just a sort of competent but meh GTA clone with serious QA problems (PC gamer on this thing). Sure, pulling the rug out from under us with all the severely faked gameplay from E3 2012 is a telltale sign of how the game would turn out beyond graphics. Still, it's one of those games that, if UbiSoft Montreal can figure out what makes their game special and really build up on that, then Watch_Dogs 2 could easily be a classic in the GTA-clone field like Saint's Row 2 is.
But apart from the nifty camera sections, which seemed to be few and far between especially after unlocking every CtOS site in under an hour, hacking is just a visually different implementation of the same things you do in GTA. Instead of smash out a window and steal a car, point my phone at it. Instead of bludgeon a passing civilian with bat to steal his pocket change, point my phone at it. Instead of ramping off a hill and over an apartment building to escape the cops, point my phone at it. Watch_Dogs turned GTA boring.
Another little picky nit to work on is what's with the battery mechanic? I understand the need to limit major abilities to avoid spamming out major hacks, but it really breaks the game's feel. What's recharging my Windows Phone knockoff behind that dumpster in an alleyway? A security sniffer program that triangulates in on who is hacking the system if you spam the button is a far more useful mechanic, which would add a degree of tension to the game. As it stands, I can go around pumping cash out of every passer-by without much worry from the CtOS authorities, the IRS, or where I'm stashing 25,000 $20 bills in my trench coat because I found myself sitting on a half-million in an incredibly short time frame. I should have to worry about being chased down by cops that just zeroed in on my phone and caught me on a camera because I'm being incredibly noisy involving bank accounts, the toughest security protocols on the planet.
For instance, if I use the blackout mechanic, it should peak out my cyber-heat mechanic and, when the lights come back on, should I be stupid enough to so much as unlock a car remotely, the system that's actively looking for my signature will just set off the cops again. It would also make upgrading more useful, such as an improved counter-security program that allows the heat to deteriorate faster or increase slower. Instead, I have to craft some item (seriously, what?) to do these things.
I wanted to love this game, but there is just so much lost potential that I really can't get around to finishing it.
But apart from the nifty camera sections, which seemed to be few and far between especially after unlocking every CtOS site in under an hour, hacking is just a visually different implementation of the same things you do in GTA. Instead of smash out a window and steal a car, point my phone at it. Instead of bludgeon a passing civilian with bat to steal his pocket change, point my phone at it. Instead of ramping off a hill and over an apartment building to escape the cops, point my phone at it. Watch_Dogs turned GTA boring.
Another little picky nit to work on is what's with the battery mechanic? I understand the need to limit major abilities to avoid spamming out major hacks, but it really breaks the game's feel. What's recharging my Windows Phone knockoff behind that dumpster in an alleyway? A security sniffer program that triangulates in on who is hacking the system if you spam the button is a far more useful mechanic, which would add a degree of tension to the game. As it stands, I can go around pumping cash out of every passer-by without much worry from the CtOS authorities, the IRS, or where I'm stashing 25,000 $20 bills in my trench coat because I found myself sitting on a half-million in an incredibly short time frame. I should have to worry about being chased down by cops that just zeroed in on my phone and caught me on a camera because I'm being incredibly noisy involving bank accounts, the toughest security protocols on the planet.
For instance, if I use the blackout mechanic, it should peak out my cyber-heat mechanic and, when the lights come back on, should I be stupid enough to so much as unlock a car remotely, the system that's actively looking for my signature will just set off the cops again. It would also make upgrading more useful, such as an improved counter-security program that allows the heat to deteriorate faster or increase slower. Instead, I have to craft some item (seriously, what?) to do these things.
I wanted to love this game, but there is just so much lost potential that I really can't get around to finishing it.
It seems like the hacking concept was tacked into another game (possibly a Driver sequel? based on Aiden's apparently being a wheelman as his non-hacker specialization), or they had the hacking, but only decided to make it a major gameplay thing later on.
Outside of blink-and-you-miss-it dialogue early on where Aiden mentions he wrote the profiler, he never hacks anything. He's just deploying pre-made apps by whoever his partner is. If you've seen Person of Interest (which this could almost be an adaptation of), he's very much the Reese to his partner's Finch. He's the wheelman/special ops guy for the actual hackers.
The one-button hacking even makes sense, if you figure that originally the mechanic was Aiden telling his partner hacker to "hack this for me" akin to Booker directing Elizabeth to open Tears in Bioshock Infinite.
Outside of blink-and-you-miss-it dialogue early on where Aiden mentions he wrote the profiler, he never hacks anything. He's just deploying pre-made apps by whoever his partner is. If you've seen Person of Interest (which this could almost be an adaptation of), he's very much the Reese to his partner's Finch. He's the wheelman/special ops guy for the actual hackers.
The one-button hacking even makes sense, if you figure that originally the mechanic was Aiden telling his partner hacker to "hack this for me" akin to Booker directing Elizabeth to open Tears in Bioshock Infinite.
I indeed played the bejeezus outta Uplink and other hacking games (and I did some other, uh, "extracurricular activities" back in school, like getting the admin password for the school computers and installing a bunch of gamesMeTalHeD said:
), and enjoyed it very much.Yes, WATCH_DOGS missed a huge chance to really feature hacking in an open world environment. As I said, this was not an open world hacking game, but a GTAIV with a hacking gimmick, as you said, a magic "I win" button. Aiden is not a hacker, he is an action hero vigilante. He never once solved any of his problems with hacking, but by driving around, shooting guns and waving his magic phone around. I would've loved this game if we had a hideout where we could commit some hacking from, where you upgrade your equipment to do it faster and better, where there is an actual challenge and danger in hacking into stuff. The old CTOS bunker would've been pure gold for this. But that location was utterly underutilized. They could've done so much more with it other than being a place to pick up the odd mission and listen to exposition. WATCH_DOGS is a huge missed chance in almost every way.
They got the hacker society totally wrong as well. Most real hackers don't hack for money, fame or juvenile thirst for destruction. They hack because they can. They don't see security systems as dangers on society or possible source of income or infamy, but as a challenge to their skills and general curiosity. You erect walls around something, that must be worth seeing, so I will go over or through those walls. You make them higher and stronger, I will have to climb higher or use more explosives. The stronger the security measures, the bigger the challenge, all the more to learn and the better the exhilaration when you finally succeed. There are basically three kinds of hackers. White Hat hackers are the ones I described, they hack because they can or because they are bored. Once they get through, they usually lose interest or leave a note to the admin describing how they got in, so they can fix the security hole. They are anything but malicious, other than some playfulness. Black Hat hackers do it for personal gain or other underhanded reasons. They are the ones most people think as "hackers", they are the industrial spies, they steal trade secrets, official documents, valuable information and ransom them back or sell them to the highest bidder. They break into government systems to steal social security, pension or alter their (or someone else's) identities, etc. They work for hire, they are far from ethical, but at least they have their reasons. The third kind is the Script Kiddies. Usually angsty teenagers or neckbearded man-childs with a knack for computers. They are the ones who DDoS your favorite game's servers to oblivion when they lose a game, they hack your email and facebook and post all your personal life on Pastebin for sh!ts and giggles, they would hack the Jumbotron during Superbowl to stream porn on it, and they are the ones who hack anything to cause wanton destruction just to brag to their nameless friends about it in IRC chatrooms.
The characters in the game are none of those. They are one-dimensional plot devices with laughable personalities or justifications. Ehh, I'll wait for someone to actually make an open world Uplink style game, that would be great.
This game is utter crap, anyone who says otherwise is just a delusional buyer trying to justify it's purchase or part of Ubisoft team behind this utter crap. Let's track it's mistake, shall we?
1- Driving is terrible. This game the cars have little to no control at all. Cars go from 0 to 180 Km/h (that is how we roll in the not US part of the world) in a touch of a button. Giving rear is even worse. What leads you to collision. Lots of collisions. They however don't matter. Unless you ram over a bunch of people. Did I say 0 to 180Km/h, well I was not being honest with you guys, this game has no velocimeter. Games like Mafia have it. Not Watch Dogs. They made next gen game with tropes of GTA from PS2 era.
2- Forget about hacking. The most usefull ability Aiden have is his gun. Go Max Payne in a terrible shooter and slow down time giving headshots. Don't worry about damage you take, this is a video game. You can take more bullets than anyone you face and you auto regenerate like Wolverine. If things turn sour all you need to do is to use of black out gadget (really you have to craft it) and hide for a few seconds. Also CQC is lethal in every enemy, but the heavy one. To close to you press B to instant kill.
3- Extra activities are out of context. This game gives you so much extra activities that are out of context for a game about vigilantism. Random street grime and Gang Hide out, the latter being ridiculous planned. There is one gang hide out that is inside a mall. I kid you not, NPC's were cool with a bunch of non cops armed with AK's, but they freaked out when I pulled my police batton on one of them. Them there are those digital trips and car runnings, not to mention the even weirder (is that a word) run coin thing.
I even skipped the part people who bought it could not play, but pirates could with less bugs. ultimately Watch Dogs if not by all the hype it received all the marketing money game sites made out of it would receive a 60.
1- Driving is terrible. This game the cars have little to no control at all. Cars go from 0 to 180 Km/h (that is how we roll in the not US part of the world) in a touch of a button. Giving rear is even worse. What leads you to collision. Lots of collisions. They however don't matter. Unless you ram over a bunch of people. Did I say 0 to 180Km/h, well I was not being honest with you guys, this game has no velocimeter. Games like Mafia have it. Not Watch Dogs. They made next gen game with tropes of GTA from PS2 era.
2- Forget about hacking. The most usefull ability Aiden have is his gun. Go Max Payne in a terrible shooter and slow down time giving headshots. Don't worry about damage you take, this is a video game. You can take more bullets than anyone you face and you auto regenerate like Wolverine. If things turn sour all you need to do is to use of black out gadget (really you have to craft it) and hide for a few seconds. Also CQC is lethal in every enemy, but the heavy one. To close to you press B to instant kill.
3- Extra activities are out of context. This game gives you so much extra activities that are out of context for a game about vigilantism. Random street grime and Gang Hide out, the latter being ridiculous planned. There is one gang hide out that is inside a mall. I kid you not, NPC's were cool with a bunch of non cops armed with AK's, but they freaked out when I pulled my police batton on one of them. Them there are those digital trips and car runnings, not to mention the even weirder (is that a word) run coin thing.
I even skipped the part people who bought it could not play, but pirates could with less bugs. ultimately Watch Dogs if not by all the hype it received all the marketing money game sites made out of it would receive a 60.
The annoying thing for me with this game is hte ctOS and blume stuff, which was the behind the scenes of what they are doing with various things i won't mention for spoiler warnings, is the best bit... and not really covered at all by the main plot other than a crytpic (or not so if you got the audio logs) at the end.
And we won't mention the plot hole with the whole unhackable secret location and what happens to it. Oh and there is one location in the game where he says something along the lines of "i don't carry cash" that made me spit my drink out, due to the million or so i had somewhere in my jacket from all the atms.
Its the classic set up to something better, but we needed something better to start with.
I think ubi might be disappointed with the second games sales, its out of the "defining new next gen experience" window and some people (myself included) are going to have been disappointed by this game.
Oh and yahtzees wrong, the lead the person through the maze via cameras thing, was the worst sodding part of the game.
And we won't mention the plot hole with the whole unhackable secret location and what happens to it. Oh and there is one location in the game where he says something along the lines of "i don't carry cash" that made me spit my drink out, due to the million or so i had somewhere in my jacket from all the atms.
Its the classic set up to something better, but we needed something better to start with.
I think ubi might be disappointed with the second games sales, its out of the "defining new next gen experience" window and some people (myself included) are going to have been disappointed by this game.
Oh and yahtzees wrong, the lead the person through the maze via cameras thing, was the worst sodding part of the game.
That does make sense, that doesn't change the issues with hacking helicopters, blowing up steam pipe (or gas pipes, or what ever) and taking out the city's power are ridicules. Taking out the city's power could be done, once, and once it is done the people at the power company would scramble to figure out what went wrong and then find the back door which would force the company to close it. If the hacking was limited to stop lights, barriers, ATMs, other peoples computers and cell phone, and if the hacking was more than just the character pushing a button on his cell phone (like a hacking mini game, though not for stoplight and barriers) and as Playbahnosh said the more you hack the more likely you are to be found by the authorities.Baldr said:
But people know one can't blow up a steam pipe by hacking it. I know, suspension of disbelief, but that can only go so far, how far depends on the individual though.Playbahnosh said:
That would make a better game. The sad thing is the lowest common denominator the suits on the video game companies keep trying to appeal to is a minority, most people (I think) would like a little more complexity in their games. Just look at Dark Souls, with little marketing it became a success, if it had the marketing budget Watch Dogs had it probably would have been a much bigger success.
Whenever the Escapist plasters ads and hype for upcoming games, part of me always hopes that Yahtzee will dislike it and will detail aspects about it that I find unappealing. It's a bittersweet experience when that hope is fulfilled.
I somewhat wonder what will be hyped up two weeks from now, after everyone forgets about Watch Dogs.
I somewhat wonder what will be hyped up two weeks from now, after everyone forgets about Watch Dogs.
It's pointless to argue what is and is not possible in video games, because it's fiction, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE. You don't even have to look far for an example, just take a look at the latest Saint's Row game. The only question is, "(how) can you justify it"? Blowing a steam pipe can happen. If it's a modern system, it most assuredly has a computerized overwatch system. You can hack those. You just close the transport valve on the main line and disengage the pressure regulation system. Pressure will build up in the pipe and since you disabled the emergency release, it will continue to build. If you time it well enough, just before the whole line reaches critical pressure you can open a release valve at a given spot and the explosive decompression will do the rest. Is it techno-babble that most people will just take your word for? Yes. Does it sound even vaguely plausible? Yes. Does it fit into the game's world? Sure. Suspension of disbelief will do the rest. This is enough for most people, and "most people" is what game devs need.LoneWolf83 said:
I don't want to make excuses or explanations for game devs, but games are really just fiction. If they say that pipe burst by waving your phone at it, then you have two options. You can roll with it and enjoy the ride or you can sulk and question the validity of a single gameplay element in a fictional world, where you run around with tons of guns strapped to your back shooting and robbing random civilians and somehow not get thrown in jail after the first five minutes just to play Prison Rape Simulator for the rest of the game.
I doubt it. Marketing was never a measure or maker of quality or success. It's just a rain of bullsh!t to cover up a game's shortcomings and/or hype it up so high you impulse-buy the hell out of it on launch regardless of it's quality. Once they have your money, they don't give a rat's ass if you enjoyed the game or not, they made you pay them money, their work is done. The real measure of quality is word-of-mouth and community support. In fact, it's better to have LESS marketing and let the game speak for itself. The easiest example is Minecraft. It didn't have ANY marketing whatsoever, it was a tiny hobby project of one guy that he put on the internet for sh!ts and giggles. Now even your grandparents know what Minecraft is (or probably played it too) and Notch is swimming in diamonds in his solid gold jakuzzi. Dark Souls got a huge cult following, because it has a very peculiar art style, world, gameplay, and a murderously punishing difficulty curve. The devs somehow hit the golden ratio of the elements they put in to strike cult gold. But even though it has a very dedicated fanbase, it's still a niche game for the exact reasons it's so popular with it's own audience.
Can we all agree that the story of Watch_Dogs (yes, I'm judging a story in a video game. If I didn't need to, why did Ubisoft spend all this money on it?) is just kind of lame? I actually thought Aiden's sister was way more well adjusted and more reasonable about the niece's death than Aiden was. Not that it mattered.
He solves his niece's death and then as if the game didn't know how to motivate Aiden any further what with all the atrocities he's witnessed, including human trafficking, they just kill off Carla so he can get re-inspired again.
They did not hit the "right amount." Any game that isn't Ride to Hell or Big Rigs will have a cult following among people. And even then it's not really a "cult" game because it was hyped to heck and back and it is to early to tell if it will achieve that status. Also, there are times in Watch Dogs where suspension of disbelief doesn't account for huge flaws like:Playbahnosh said:
1. The Chicago P.D. have not reached the technological progress needed to build a boat.
2. Aiden can mow down 10 civilians and no one bats an eye but the moment you pull a gun some NPC will call the police.
3. If someone tries to call the police there are numerous ways to make them forget entirely to call the police.
4. For a heavily 1984-esque Chicago there are almost no patrol cars outside missions.
5. With the hundreds of cameras around the city the police can never spot you or your car, but a random civilian on the street can.
Those points are just too hard for me to suspend my disbelief in what a accurate portrayal of Chicago would be like.
Yes, the game has flaws in its storyline and game mechanics (although some of the things that people have said are not actually flaws, just misunderstandings). But it's still a fun game, in some cases because of those "flaws". Games don't have to be realistic. Realism is dull.
(And, FWIW, so far I've managed to get through almost every mission -- including gang and CTOS hub ones -- without firing a single shot, and in most cases without even taking out any of the guards. Sure, you *can* play it like a dumb run-n-gun if that's what you want, but there are other options.)
Yahtzee's comment near the end about a camera-watching game reminded me of The Experiment (aka Experience 112). Which was an interesting game, if a little monotonous at times. Unfortunately it suffers from "we ran out of money" syndrome with an unexpectedly abrupt ending.
But if you want more realistic hacking mechanics, play Uplink. That game still holds up well, and I've yet to come across a game that does it better. (Though even that suspends a lot of realism in favour of fun -- but that's a good thing.)
(And, FWIW, so far I've managed to get through almost every mission -- including gang and CTOS hub ones -- without firing a single shot, and in most cases without even taking out any of the guards. Sure, you *can* play it like a dumb run-n-gun if that's what you want, but there are other options.)
Yahtzee's comment near the end about a camera-watching game reminded me of The Experiment (aka Experience 112). Which was an interesting game, if a little monotonous at times. Unfortunately it suffers from "we ran out of money" syndrome with an unexpectedly abrupt ending.
But if you want more realistic hacking mechanics, play Uplink. That game still holds up well, and I've yet to come across a game that does it better. (Though even that suspends a lot of realism in favour of fun -- but that's a good thing.)
I guess you wasn't around for it's original release then. Sure, NOW it's popular, because publishers capitalized on it's cult value. I agree, it's cult status is questionable at this point, since the game got mainstream-ized. Also, I don't think "cult" means what you think it means.Brownie80 said:
Suspension of disbelief doesn't stand for bugs and stupid design flaws. It stands for the game world, the story and the game mechanics. The things that are "intended to be in the game". And even in those, it stands for the ones that are not universally accepted as factual. For example, most people seem to point out the exploding steam pipes and the "magic" phone as broken, and yet nobody points out the auto-magically recharging health, or that you carry around eleventeen guns in your pocket with a hundred magazines each. Or how about having the ability to destroy and murder yourself through half a city, get chased around by tons of cops, lose them, hide for a while and then do it again. Four times. In a single day. And not get the whole city locked down with the national guard marching in under martial law.
Anyway, as I said, it's pointless to argue what is and is not possible in a video game, since it's a video game. We can go deeper and analyze all the logical fallacies and factual inaccuracies till the Sun blows up, and we won't be any closer to a conclusions. The point is, you won't get "an accurate portrayal of Chicago" in a video game. Ever. At the end of the day it's still just entertainment, nothing more, and you can either take everything with a mountain of salt, or argue with strangers on the internet about it.
I think I'd prefer the Shadowrun hackers. At least they have to duel digital samurais with their minds.
First about "cult" value. I define something with a cult value as something that was originally was thought as bad but is now loved by many is hailed as DA BEST EVAH by some people and has a lasting legacy (Say Pinkerton for example.) The second thing I think it might be is something hailed at the time and still is as one of the WORST ever and is blasted at any chance in there form of media or field but has a small group of people still love it (Such as any Ed Wood film of the Yugo). Now maybe Watch Dogs might fit into one of those categories, but I don't think publishers capitalized on it's "cult value" because it was hyped as some point to be THE game to completely blow our minds. This wasn't marketed on novelty because Ubisoft wanted this to be a huge title and make them enough money to pay off the national debt, so it wasn't marketed on "cult value" no more than TLOU was. Only after it was released did they see it wasn't the next coming of Christ they expected it to be. Although, it did set the record for the fastest-selling new IP in the first release week in the UK. However I do agree it's a bit to early to tell due to only being released three weeks ago.Playbahnosh said:I guess you wasn't around for it's original release then. Sure, NOW it's popular, because publishers capitalized on it's cult value. I agree, it's cult status is questionable at this point, since the game got mainstream-ized. Also, I don't think "cult" means what you think it means.Brownie80 said:
Suspension of disbelief doesn't stand for bugs and stupid design flaws. It stands for the game world, the story and the game mechanics. The things that are "intended to be in the game". And even in those, it stands for the ones that are not universally accepted as factual. For example, most people seem to point out the exploding steam pipes and the "magic" phone as broken, and yet nobody points out the auto-magically recharging health, or that you carry around eleventeen guns in your pocket with a hundred magazines each. Or how about having the ability to destroy and murder yourself through half a city, get chased around by tons of cops, lose them, hide for a while and then do it again. Four times. In a single day. And not get the whole city locked down with the national guard marching in under martial law.
Anyway, as I said, it's pointless to argue what is and is not possible in a video game, since it's a video game. We can go deeper and analyze all the logical fallacies and factual inaccuracies till the Sun blows up, and we won't be any closer to a conclusions. The point is, you won't get "an accurate portrayal of Chicago" in a video game. Ever. At the end of the day it's still just entertainment, nothing more, and you can either take everything with a mountain of salt, or argue with strangers on the internet about it.
Now for the bugs, what I am saying is that even though they are not supposed to be part of the experience, they still take a beating on the believability of the world. No police boats? Vice City accomplished that 12 years ago! A game set in 1986! It's kind of hard to be immersed in the world when you know that the police can't touch you when you get in a boat. So instead of saying, "I wonder what I should hack to get these police off my tail," you're thinking "Police? Just a nuisance, I can get rid of them by using this unintentional exploit in the game which makes water their kryptonite." This isn't like small clipping or bad physic hiccups, this directly affects a big part of what makes an open-world game an open-world game. Also, some of those things I mentioned are most likely not bugs, like the lack of patrol cars and the confusing crime system are part of the game. Glitch, bug, or not, they still take you out of the game for an amount of time. And let me tell you, it would be hard to suspend my disbelief to a level high enough to accept things like this:
watch?v=wgg64cJPeRs
"So she's probably a few dead kids shy of an origin story."
That line deserves a hearty round of applause. Well done!
That line deserves a hearty round of applause. Well done!
I like the fact that their pathetic AI cannot even be bothered to summon police or fire trucks when half a city block is being razed to the ground due to all the cars you can smash together. They spent more on hype than on the game. So Ubisoft has now unlocked the EA Achievement "Soulless" (or is that so less)?