Zombie Survival MMO?

[Sneaklemming]

snip

Resi is not survival, it's action-horror. More action than horror. There really aren't any survival games besides Survival Kids (GBA) and the Lost in Blue series.

If a game has A) A "needs" meter (such as food, water, etc) and B) doesn't have ammo coming out the yin-yang, it's a survival game.

So you surviving the Sims?


EDIT: (Im not trying to be an ass/argue im just poking fun. I know what you mean of course!)

 

[Kuro Majiyo]

There is a very simple way to do Zombie survival. In fact, I remember last year there being an article on it. Have a randomly generated city, start off on a team, and survive till the end of "day" (probably around an hour), collecting supplies such as food, water, guns, and ammo. Players can upgrade their characters in between "days". After each day ends, the level restructures itself at random,so areas are never in the same place twice.

 

[BonsaiK]

There is a very simple way to do Zombie survival. In fact, I remember last year there being an article on it. Have a randomly generated city, start off on a team, and survive till the end of "day" (probably around an hour), collecting supplies such as food, water, guns, and ammo. Players can upgrade their characters in between "days". After each day ends, the level restructures itself at random,so areas are never in the same place twice.

Brilliant idea. I wish it existed. However, this isn't an MMORPG.

 

[King_Paco]

if it was set in my town. i'd be set.

 

[Roamin11]

Yep I would do it. It would be like Tabula Rasa though, which would cut down the players to me the few people who agree on this idea and Richard Garriot

 

[Sneaklemming]

But assuming that you do find all those things, what then?

In the film Dawn Of The Dead, the characters find all these things in a shopping centre. Then they ask themselves the same question - "what now?". The sheer pointlessness of their existence makes them seek somewhere outside of their safe haven where zombies don't exist, an "extraction point" if you will.

Zombie Survival has one objective - to ensure survival. If you can't ensure survival, because the game mechanics don't allow it but not allowing yourself to either completely wipe out all the zombies or extract yourself from the area, then failure is inevitable. You can't win the game, so the objective then becomes to stall defeat for as long as possible. Which then begs the question "why wouldn't my character just shoot him/herself at the start, rather than be eaten by zombies at some point down the track?". It becomes a game as pointless as the existence of the characters. If you can't win, you have only one option left which is to lose. If you can only lose, why play?

See Max Brooks; World War Z

There is a very simple way to do Zombie survival. In fact, I remember last year there being an article on it. Have a randomly generated city, start off on a team, and survive till the end of "day" (probably around an hour), collecting supplies such as food, water, guns, and ammo. Players can upgrade their characters in between "days". After each day ends, the level restructures itself at random,so areas are never in the same place twice.

There was a game that did something similar, where it moved rooms around in a hotel or something- I remember hearing about it on a podcast recently- but I cant for the life of me remember what it was called


EDIT- fixed quotes, i think - 'appy now?

 

[Flying-Emu]

snip

Resi is not survival, it's action-horror. More action than horror. There really aren't any survival games besides Survival Kids (GBA) and the Lost in Blue series.

If a game has A) A "needs" meter (such as food, water, etc) and B) doesn't have ammo coming out the yin-yang, it's a survival game.

So you surviving the Sims?


EDIT: (Im not trying to be an ass/argue im just poking fun. I know what you mean of course!)

I knew someone was going to point that out. Ha, in a way, yes, The Sims is a survival game. But not survival in the sense I was thinking; play Lost in Blue or Survival Kids to see what I mean. Both rather mediocre games, but it has the basic mechanics I'm thinking of.

 

[WriterX]

I agree with BonsaiK. In a Post-Apocalyptic world the thing which would keep people alive is some brighter future in the distance.If that was not at all possible, the very point of survival would be meaningless as soon as the people realised it.

Of course, people might have different priorities, different "missions" (some people might try to act heroes and simply help others, for whatever odd reason) but when there is nobody left to defend?

When there is a set goal in a game, or a number of possible outcomes I believe players will look more positively at always there being a chance to win, rather than a moment appearing where all that is left is sad defeat.

 

[BonsaiK]

Zsnip

But assuming that you do find all those things, what then?

In the film Dawn Of The Dead, the characters find all these things in a shopping centre. Then they ask themselves the same question - "what now?". The sheer pointlessness of their existence makes them seek somewhere outside of their safe haven where zombies don't exist, an "extraction point" if you will.

Zombie Survival has one objective - to ensure survival. If you can't ensure survival, because the game mechanics don't allow it but not allowing yourself to either completely wipe out all the zombies or extract yourself from the area, then failure is inevitable. You can't win the game, so the objective then becomes to stall defeat for as long as possible. Which then begs the question "why wouldn't my character just shoot him/herself at the start, rather than be eaten by zombies at some point down the track?". It becomes a game as pointless as the existence of the characters. If you can't win, you have only one option left which is to lose. If you can only lose, why play?

See Max Brooks; World War Z

There is a very simple way to do Zombie survival. In fact, I remember last year there being an article on it. Have a randomly generated city, start off on a team, and survive till the end of "day" (probably around an hour), collecting supplies such as food, water, guns, and ammo. Players can upgrade their characters in between "days". After each day ends, the level restructures itself at random,so areas are never in the same place twice.

There was a game that did something similar, where it moved rooms around in a hotel or something- I remember hearing about it on a podcast recently- but I cant for the life of me remember what it was called

That sounds good. I wish more games had randomly generated areas. I was hoping after Diablo (the first one not the rubbish sequel) random generation would take off a bit more, but sadly it hasn't.

You'll have to explain World War Z to me so I know what your point is about that.

By the way, you've snipped the thread in such a way that my name appears over quotes that I didn't actually say. Just pointing that out so people don't get confused.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Its been edited I think- Im not sure what happened...

 

[BonsaiK]

I agree with BonsaiK. In a Post-Apocalyptic world the thing which would keep people alive is some brighter future in the distance.If that was not at all possible, the very point of survival would be meaningless as soon as the people realised it.

Of course, people might have different priorities, different "missions" (some people might try to act heroes and simply help others, for whatever odd reason) but when there is nobody left to defend?

When there is a set goal in a game, or a number of possible outcomes I believe players will look more positively at always there being a chance to win, rather than a moment appearing where all that is left is sad defeat.

Glad to see that you get it. This is why you can't have a Zombie Survival MMORPG. Zombie Survival FPS? Yes. Zombie Survival RPG? Yes. Zombie Survival tower defense game? Yes. Zombie Survival MMORPG? Absolutely not, not ever. Because MMORPGs are designed to be infinite, and Zombie Survival is a temporary situation by definition. The game attached to it must have a begining and an end or the story and the action will make no sense.

 

[ZomgSharkz]

how about left 4 dead, but with character skills, such as radioman or advanced barricader, ect

so when you wanted to go deep into the city, to look for rarer supplies, you may start getting overrun. you run into a store and makeshift barricade the door. you run upstairs while the guys downstairs quickly look whatever ammo they can find while you stack things next to the door, your radioman is setting up a generator and a portable radio and starts broadcasting.

seconds later you hear a scream and your friend is dragged upstairs by the medic while the fighters keep the infected off them while retreating. they get inside and you all pitch in to barricade the door.

yes, that would be epic

Yeah that sounds like an awesome idea. On a thread a while back I wrote up an idea for a game based around that same idea that. It's quite long so I'm gunna attempt my first spoiler here.

Spoiler

My idea would be a cross between L4D and a base-defense game. The main enemies would be Zombies (naturally) that would be fast (like L4D) and you would have tons of special zombies (like way more than L4D). So there would be different level scenarios you could choose from, such as a suburban block, a downtown business area, a school, a sports arena, and so on. So you'd be let loose in the area you choose and would be given a certain time limit to both find a suitable base and subsequently fortify it.

You would be able to fortify the building with whatever is in the building as well as anything you can carry with you from the outside. However you wouldn't just simply choose an object then place it. You would actually have to drag things around to wherever you want them. The time it would take to drag them would also depend on the object. Pushing a big sofa into a doorway would take much longer than picking up a school desk.

You would also be able to set up traps with what you can find throughout the building. You might find some propane tanks so you could set them up outside the building to shoot as the zombies attack. You could also somehow set up a tripwire that would drop rubble down upon your foes (not sure how that would work yet). There would be as many traps as you can think up with the materials at hand.

The game would be very simple to implement co-op into. I'm thinking 1-4 players but as the players increase in number so do the zombies to even the odds. So once the time allotted to search out and fortify your stronghold expires the zombies would start coming. The zombies would come in waves, much like Horde in Gears 2, with each wave adding more zombies as well as powerful special zombies. In between waves you would be given a short amount of time (Much shorter than the original fortification time) to scrounge for ammo or rebuild barricades and traps. You may even go to a different building to start a new base but this is risky because you never know if the building you pick will be a good candidate for a stronghold.

So this is an example of what I hope game-play might turn out as. You choose to play in a suburban area. You start in the middle of the street with only a pistol and the timer starts. You walk down the street searching for a suitable base when you see on someone's drive way a table with a bunch of cut wooden boards, a hammer, nails, and a circular saw. However this house isn't a good place for a base so you take the boards, hammer, nails, and saw blade and continue on. Eventually you find a two-story house with a separate garage. The house has a back door and a front door so there are two entrances to cover. It isn't the most suitable base, but entrance from the garage isn't a problem and the timer won't last forever so you begin you fortifications.

First you use the wooden boards along with the hammer and board off all the first floor windows to slow down the zombies. After that you quickly search the separate garage and find a full propane tank as well as a battered, neglected bow along with some arrows. By now the timer is running dangerously low so you head back to the house. Along the way you set the propane tank out in the front lawn before entering the house. Then with a deal of effort and time you drag a sofa from the living room in front of the front door to block off one exit, and pile up some tables to block the back door. The downstairs is suitably blocked off so you head upstairs to see what you can find. In the master bedroom you find an old, dull WWII knife that you keep as a last resort. You also drag out a old dresser and balance it precariously on the edge of the steps.

By now the timer has reached zero and wave 1 starts. You head to an upstairs window and wait. The first wave consists of a medium sized group of normal zombies and appear around the corner of the street and rush towards the house. As they reach the front lawn you shoot the propane tank with a shot from your pistol and the ensuing fire engulfs almost all of the zombies. The last few are felled by pistol shots. The next few waves continue more or less like this with more and more zombies. By now they have clawed down the front door but the sofa is still blocking them, and many windows are smashed open. Your pistol ammo is running low.

Now the special zombies are mixed into the waves. As you are firing from the upstairs window you hear a crash from below. You quickly run to the stairs to see that a massive, hulking zombie (much like a L4D tank) has smashed in the sofa blocking the door and masses of lesser zombies are charging up the stairs. Quickly you shove the dresser poised on the stairs downward and the heavy piece of furniture crushes many zombies on its way down. But now the massive zombie sees you at the top of the stairs. You dart into an upstairs room and push a file cabinet in front of the door. However this is no match for the giant zombie's strength and in blows through the door and cabinet without breaking stride. However the zombie is dazed and you are able to stab it a few times in the back with the old WWII knife before it turns to face you. The zombie is strong but slow and dumb and dodging it is easy enough, but you have to kill it quick before the house is completely overrun.

The zombie charges and you dodge to the side once again, and as it turns towards you, you shove the circular saw blade into it's neck but it still isn't dead. While it staggers back from the mortal blow you stab it again in the eyes and eventually the hulking beast dies. You pull the saw out of its neck and throw it out of the room into incoming zombies. Along with your last pistol shots you push the zombies back far enough to buy a brief moment of time. With that time you quickly push a desk and another file cabinet in front of the door.

Suddenly you hear something behind you and see that a smart zombie (a different kind of special) has wisely found a ladder from the garage and used it to gain access to the upper floor. Before he can climb in along with a host of lesser zombies. You pull out the old bow and put an arrow between his eyes and then quickly kick him off the top of the ladder. Then you push the ladder away keeping the zombies at bay. Now the last zombies of the wave have broken through the cabinet and desk at the door but you quickly down the last few. Now the wave is over and you have time to regroup.

I could probably keep going forever but I was already feeling like it was getting annoying and long-winded but that's my idea. I hope that houses would be placed in different places each time you start up a scenario and I also hope that the items inside the houses would be randomly changed. This would keep the player from finding one stronghold for every game and if the happened there would be no variety. You would have to rely on makeshift weapons much more than conventional weapons, and it would be rare to find a gun inside someone's house (although if you're lucky you might find a shotgun or rifle to aid you). Another incredibly rare but very powerful zombie I thought of is the gun zombie. As the name suggests they would carry guns and that would be one of the only ways to obtain new weapons and ammo, aside from finding it in the house. However you would have to let them get close enough to you so you could get the ammo without having to run outside or wherever else you may kill them. But if you let them close they can be extremely deadly so it's a Catch 22.

Well there it is. I'm going to keep thinking on this one because I think I may have something here. =)

 

[Sneaklemming]

I agree with BonsaiK. In a Post-Apocalyptic world the thing which would keep people alive is some brighter future in the distance.If that was not at all possible, the very point of survival would be meaningless as soon as the people realised it.

Of course, people might have different priorities, different "missions" (some people might try to act heroes and simply help others, for whatever odd reason) but when there is nobody left to defend?

When there is a set goal in a game, or a number of possible outcomes I believe players will look more positively at always there being a chance to win, rather than a moment appearing where all that is left is sad defeat.

Glad to see that you get it. This is why you can't have a Zombie Survival MMORPG. Zombie Survival FPS? Yes. Zombie Survival RPG? Yes. Zombie Survival tower defense game? Yes. Zombie Survival MMORPG? Absolutely not, not ever. Because MMORPGs are designed to be infinite, and Zombie Survival is a temporary situation by definition. The game attached to it must have a begining and an end or the story and the action will make no sense.

I just dont think this is accurate, many MMOs are set in a state of constant/static war/crisis.

Its simply a setting. If its player driven, (like EVE), then theres no reason it couldnt work. There doesnt have to be a 'light at the end of the tunnel'

Think outside the Warcraft bubble; because that type of MMO would not translate well; but travelling 0.0 space in Eve is like travelling Europe circa 1943. As long as the game world isnt too small; it can be entirely player driven; no need for any/many NPCs except for the hordes and hordes. You can even have sub-plots and politics interwoven into this setting.

Thats why I said "see Max Brooks; World War Z" - It goes beyond the standard robinson cruiso scenario usually depicted by Films. The first 48hours is nothing. - thats the tutorial, getting to the mall roof, and being extracted. The game begins after extraction.

You're thinking too narrow buddy- and I definitely recommend World War Z to you; that book will make you look at human nature/zombies/politics in a whole new way

 

[Deadpoolsbrain]

Yes, please sounds like something that would steal my life.

 

[Kuro Majiyo]

I don't think that it's impossible, but it would require a very BIG wasteland. Have you ever read The Zombie Hunters? It shows the most likely way a game like this would be handled. For those of you who haven't:

www.thezombiehunters.com

A central hub which is largely non-fighting is center to most MMOs, after all, where do you start out.

 

[BonsaiK]

<spoiler=Stolen from someone in another thread>
Id say a couple huge cities where you can enter alot if not all of the buildings. Basically scavange for crap, maybe do a few missions like reconnecting power or finding fuel for your generators.
I would not really like the whole survivor city provided scenario. Every person travelling through the cities on their own would be better. Maybe later on you could team up and like secure city blocks by putting up make shift walls that have to be defended by real players otherwise the undead will break through.
Also there would have to be a hunger system so you really do have to go out and try to gather supplies.
I would like a very minimal amount of NPCs. Have everything done by the players.
Also I would not really like a MMORPG set up. Have it more of a MMOFPS. Essentially Left 4 Dead style.
Edit: also like EVE have it totally run by the players. For example say you have secured a police station and stocked up on weapons and food. Another group of survivors comes along and decides to storm your HQ and steal everything.


Anyway with Zs being like nerd porn you really would have thought a decent ZMMO would be out already.

It hasn't been done because it literaly cannot be done. It it WERE actually possible, then you are quite right, we would already have our ZMMO.

Also, remember that the only reason why Zombies are so popular in games in the first place is because you can have human limb dismemberment with less chance of a heavy censorship rating if you use green blood. Nothing to do with the preference of nerds.

 

[BonsaiK]

I agree with BonsaiK. In a Post-Apocalyptic world the thing which would keep people alive is some brighter future in the distance.If that was not at all possible, the very point of survival would be meaningless as soon as the people realised it.

Of course, people might have different priorities, different "missions" (some people might try to act heroes and simply help others, for whatever odd reason) but when there is nobody left to defend?

When there is a set goal in a game, or a number of possible outcomes I believe players will look more positively at always there being a chance to win, rather than a moment appearing where all that is left is sad defeat.

Glad to see that you get it. This is why you can't have a Zombie Survival MMORPG. Zombie Survival FPS? Yes. Zombie Survival RPG? Yes. Zombie Survival tower defense game? Yes. Zombie Survival MMORPG? Absolutely not, not ever. Because MMORPGs are designed to be infinite, and Zombie Survival is a temporary situation by definition. The game attached to it must have a begining and an end or the story and the action will make no sense.

I just dont think this is accurate, many MMOs are set in a state of constant/static war/crisis.

Its simply a setting. If its player driven, (like EVE), then theres no reason it couldnt work. There doesnt have to be a 'light at the end of the tunnel'

Think outside the Warcraft bubble; because that type of MMO would not translate well; but travelling 0.0 space in Eve is like travelling Europe circa 1943. As long as the game world isnt too small; it can be entirely player driven; no need for any/many NPCs except for the hordes and hordes. You can even have sub-plots and politics interwoven into this setting.

Thats why I said "see Max Brooks; World War Z" - It goes beyond the standard robinson cruiso scenario usually depicted by Films. The first 48hours is nothing. - thats the tutorial, getting to the mall roof, and being extracted. The game begins after extraction.

You're thinking too narrow buddy- and I definitely recommend World War Z to you; that book will make you look at human nature/zombies/politics in a whole new way

But if there's no light at the end of the tunnel, why bother surviving?

 

[Insanum]

I wouldnt. I find MMO's are number based.

You cant get that zombie *crunch* with an MMO based number system.

 

[vid20]

The idea is alright... but I don't think the game would work very well.

The whole point of a zombie apocalypse is that humanity is on the verge of extinction.

MMO =/= extinction.

However if you made a zombie games based around numerous servers (each server possibly representing a town or survivor strong hold) with the focus on surviving in a world populated by the undead; that would be a step in the right direction.

Just.. not MMO..