Wasted characters.

[Thaluikhain]

The point WAS the hallway scene was very tonally dissonant compared to previous Star Wars outings, whatever you want to call it pejoratively or adjectively, even for their most villainous of villains. Semantics aside, Star Wars never showcased objective, raw Dark Side violence as seen in that scene.

Is not all of Rogue One very different in tone to the rest of Star Wars, though?

OTOH, while that scene was dark, they are enemy combatants, just outclassed ones he's killing. If he was a hero offing random stormtroopers and one of them did a Wilhelm scream and fell into a giant pit, it wouldn't be any less inherently violent.

 

[thebobmaster]

I saw her mentioned before, but I've got to bring her up again. Captain Phasma should have had a lot more to her than we got. She was played by Gwendoline Christy, hot off of Game of Thrones, cutting a very striking figure between her chrome armor and sheer size, and they had a perfect set up to have her be the darker version of Finn.

What did we get? Her getting ambushed by Chewbacca and forced to lower the shields in TFA before being dumped into a trash compactor off-screen, and then a very brief fight with Finn in TLJ before killing her off.

The worst part about Phasma? She's actually quite an interesting character if you read the novels featuring her, where she's set up as essentially being a backstabber who will betray anyone and everyone if it means her career will advance, or at least not end.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Thaluikhain]

I saw her mentioned before, but I've got to bring her up again. Captain Phasma should have had a lot more to her than we got. She was played by Gwendoline Christy, hot off of Game of Thrones, cutting a very striking figure between her chrome armor and sheer size, and they had a perfect set up to have her be the darker version of Finn.

What did we get? Her getting ambushed by Chewbacca and forced to lower the shields in TFA before being dumped into a trash compactor off-screen, and then a very brief fight with Finn in TLJ before killing her off.

The worst part about Phasma? She's actually quite an interesting character if you read the novels featuring her, where she's set up as essentially being a backstabber who will betray anyone and everyone if it means her career will advance, or at least not end.

Totally forgot who Phasma was until you wrote that, so yeah, have to agree there.

 

[Gordon_4]

I saw her mentioned before, but I've got to bring her up again. Captain Phasma should have had a lot more to her than we got. She was played by Gwendoline Christy, hot off of Game of Thrones, cutting a very striking figure between her chrome armor and sheer size, and they had a perfect set up to have her be the darker version of Finn.

What did we get? Her getting ambushed by Chewbacca and forced to lower the shields in TFA before being dumped into a trash compactor off-screen, and then a very brief fight with Finn in TLJ before killing her off.

The worst part about Phasma? She's actually quite an interesting character if you read the novels featuring her, where she's set up as essentially being a backstabber who will betray anyone and everyone if it means her career will advance, or at least not end.

Soo, she was Starscream?

 

[Breakdown]

I personally found the series captured Littlefinger's sociopathy very well. He's a superficially likable person, charismatic and witty but beneath that he's a pure power player who cares for little but improving his own station. The only other thing he cares for is his childhood crush, Katelyn, whom he is so unhealthily obsessed with that he betrays her husband's trust (and gets him killed in the process) and later starts grooming her teenage daughter into being subservient to him while making awkward sexual advances in the process.

I think the portrayal is just a bit too much on the nose in the series. I mean you have Littlefinger gazing longingly at the Iron Throne, trading threats with Cersei, the famous exposition scene with two prostitutes going at it in the background... In the book he's more of an ambiguous character, seemingly a minor league opportunist to begin with, until his level of ambition and the scale of his plans are gradually revealed.

Littlefinger does provide Ned Stark with some pretty solid advice, and I suspect that he probably would've supported Ned if his advice had been accepted. In the short term at least.

Regardless, I'd say he's a wasted character from season five onwards when he sends Sansa off to marry Ramsay even though it makes no sense for him to do that, and then does nothing until Arya kills him.

 

[Trunkage]

I think it depends on what you define as menacing. Physically, yeah Vader wasn't all that impressive, when you compare him to the various stunts and acrobatics they've added into saber combat. But for me at least, I don't think that was ever the point with him. He was a homicidal zealot, that had zero restraint, and would literally choke you to death, in front of his "boss", simply because you gave him lip. He didn't even need to touch you. Hell he didn't even need to be in the same quadrant as you. He could just see you on a vid screen (Empire Strikes Back), who knows how far away actual distance, and choke...you...to death. He had zero remorse, zero empathy, and really zero accountability. So he was scary because if he decided you should die, there was pretty much nothing you could do to stop him. Nobody was really going to stand up to him, as the majority of the imperials were below him in rank. The Emperor gave zero fucks about the lives of others, so unless he killed someone actually important to a project, there was basically nothing stopping him. He would lie and alter deals to suit his own whims, so trying to agree to any terms he might give you, wasn't a guarantee of safety. Torture was perfectly fine with him. There was basically no line he wouldn't cross, and if you were in his crosshairs, you were basically fucked.

I can't say that I had like, nightmares as a kid of Vader, he didn't trigger any lizard brain fear, but as far as storytelling, he was a good villain. In particular, when they added the layer and depth to him, to show that he didn't come out of the womb as a space hitler, but that he was actually a good guy, a heroic hero of legendary legend! The kind of person that Luke probably read holovid stories about as a kid! ....and then he went bad. He made horrible choices, based on bad information, and his own personal flaws. And found himself embracing a philosophy that caused countless pain and grief. And it's hammered home, when he's directly confronted with a representation of that past self, in the form of Luke, and you see the...conflict, begin to crack. For me at least, it made his actions even worse, because it was no longer just "dooo dee doo, i love force choking bitc*es, what a lovely day!" to someone who felt he had no choice but to continue down the path he was on, and then having to struggle with being forcibly shown that he was wrong, and it didn't HAVE to be the way he had made everything.

That's a pretty damn good villain in my opinion.

I mean I said he was a bully. That sums up most villains before and after his appearance. His costume stands out. Not his actions. Maybe his Jedi tricks if they were used more often.

Also, layers? It's 1970s. There's a bunch of movie with layers. Star Wars stripped it all away to be incredibly simplistic. It was a student project that happened to be successful. Go watch most movies around that period to get layers. Most Marvel movies have way more layers to each character than all the Star Wars characters combine.

Man, next you're going to tell me that Solo was cool. That's my pick for wasted character. Benny Hills his way through the Star Base with thousands of troops. Delivered a load. Shot a ship. His crap ship that let him be captured. Got de-iced. Fell in love. Made friends with Ewoks. You could cut Solo out of the whole trilogy and it wouldn't have changed them much. He falls in a very similar boat to Chewie.

Edit: I should add that Solo dying did nothing for me. I couldn't care if he's alive or dead. He's been a useless character and pretending he's someone important is just silly

 

[Trunkage]

Is not all of Rogue One very different in tone to the rest of Star Wars, though?

OTOH, while that scene was dark, they are enemy combatants, just outclassed ones he's killing. If he was a hero offing random stormtroopers and one of them did a Wilhelm scream and fell into a giant pit, it wouldn't be any less inherently violent.

Isn't that what makes Luke a badass in TRotJ? Instead of being the whining brat he's been for 2 movies

 

[BrawlMan]

Yeah there was the first person to teach Aang fire bending, that super reluctant guy who was all "fire bending by it's nature is destructive and will burn all who use it". There was Uncle Iroh, there was Zuko, who even when he was deeply in the Fire Nation koolaid, was a very good person. His empathy and compassion for his people are the thing that got him burned and exiled. There was Zuko's mother, who was presented as being a normal, nice person (as best as I recall). There was Sokka's instructor like you mentioned, and in theory, every other fire bender in the White Lotus Society. So it's hardly without precedent.

The issue I think, is that it's like trying to find a "good nazi" when the majority of those you see, are card carrying, dyed in the wool, nazis. Sure some of them were probably just going along with it, or just not engaging in activities they didn't agree with, but THEY KNEW, better than anyone, what happened to those who defied the will of the nazi party. Same goes for the Fire Nation. I mean The Firelord burned his own crown prince, in public! A Shameful Display! And kicked his ass to the curb for defying him! You think Random Fire Nation Mook 27 is going to make much of a racket if he didn't agree with the Fire Nation policy?

And it's important to remember, that the Fire Nation, isn't the same thing as just fire bending itself. There was that entire arc about Zuko learning the "true" fire bending, and how it wasn't how the Fire Nation, had bastardized the philosophy behind their bending.

Also it's important to remember, that the Fire Nation was, by nature of the narrative, framed as the Bad Guys. And they were, but you can't spend a lot of screen time, un-villainizing your villains, at least not on a large scale. You have a few representative characters, that you slowly, over the course of several seasons, show to be actual people, and not mindless killing machines. Or you have one who is like that from the start (Uncle Iroh), but clearly have him be marked as an outsider to the mainstream way of the villains. Then, when you get to the final season, that more directly involves that faction, sure, you can flesh it out in more detail. Which they did. It's just the random fire nation people aren't the MCs, so by necessity, they're going to be small glimpses, that represent a larger, unseen division.

Speaking of which, check this out.

Avatar: The Last Airbender / YMMV - TV Tropes

YMMV Tropes with Their Own Pages Abandon Shipping Alternative Character Interpretation Die for Our Ship Fandom Specific Plot Fanon Fanon Discontinuity Magnificent Bastard Memetic Mutation Moral Event Horizon Complete Monster: Fire Lord Ozai (see …

tvtropes.org

Spoiler: ATLA YMMV PAGE: They Wasted A Perfectly Good Character

• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character:
  • Ty Lee! She is a fan favorite with a unique ability, and is much nicer than Azula or Mai despite being an antagonist. We never really learn anything about her (other than she comes from a big family where she felt overlooked), and we only see her three times during Season 3, only in one of these episodes was she a major character.
  • Ozai and Iroh's father, Fire Lord Azulon, was only briefly seen in one flashback episode and mentioned in passing in another. Despite being the Fire Lord before Ozai and despite the fact that most of the Hundred Year War passed during his reign, we know next to nothing about him.
  • Koh, the Face Stealer is quite popular with many fans, yet we never see him after his debut (at least, not in the show proper. He makes appearances in some sort of (now defunct) online game and the sequel graphic novels). Still, some fans are disappointed that he didn't appear in the show itself.
  • Aang's old Fire Nation friend Kuzon. Though he was most likely dead by the time of the show, it is a shame that we never really learn anything about him. This becomes especially annoying in Season 3 where the Gaang visit the Fire Nation, giving us the perfect opportunity to learn more about him including his friendship with Aang, his role in the war, and his possible connection to Zuko (due to their similar names and the fact that Aang compared the two). Word of God originally stated that Kuzon would play an important role in a Season 3 episode, but this unfortunately never came to be, though he does appear in a flashback in the comic "Dragon Days"
  • Azula's elderly advisors/instructors Lo and Li originally seemed to be Azula's equivalents to Zuko's Iroh only much colder in personality. Come Season 3, their role becomes more comical and it's revealed that they aren't even firebenders which makes no sense considering that it was implied that they were her firebending instructors.
  • Chit Sang was an interesting character who briefly joined the group along with Hakoda midway through Season 3 only to leave the following episode without a single line of dialogue!
  • Haru and Hakoda are competent warriors in their own right, but are shelved just before the Grand Finale.
  • Combustion Man is a menacing figure with unique firebending abilities and was hyped to be a major antagonist for the final season. However, other than acting as a somewhat arbitrary plot device to help Zuko earn Aang's trust, his relevance to the main story is minimal. He does not have any lines, his true name is never revealed and he is only fought in two filler episodes before dying in his final appearance.
  • Chey, the Fire Nation explosives expert and second man to deter them and live is only in one episode, and has a minimal, somewhat comic relief, role in it.
  • Jee, the captain of Zuko's ship never reappearing after Zuko becomes a fugitive, when that could have had a good sense of conflicting loyalty. He also feels wasted for not appearing in the siege of the North as a potential voice of reason.
  • Some fans wish June the Bounty Hunter had showed up chasing the Gang and/or Zuko at certain points between the two episodes in which she appeared.
  • Shyu the fire Sage who remains loyal to the Avatar is in just one episode and then is never referenced again.
  • Xin Fu and Master Yu seemed like they would become recurring antagonists in Season 2. They were only seen two more times and their role was greatly rushed at the end of the season. Furthermore, Xin Fu's plan to capture Aang for the Fire Lord seemed to have been thrown out.

Some I get, while others, I'm like: I forgot this one minor character existed, or what the fuck else were you expecting? That's said, the series has this constant problem of rushing plot-lines, characters, or not delivering more on what they hinted/promised. It only got worse in Legend of Korra.

 

[thebobmaster]

Soo, she was Starscream?

Basically, but to an even darker degree. When I say she'd backstab anyone, I mean it quite literally. IIRC, at one point she literally betrays her own brother to get a promotion.

 

[BrawlMan]

she literally betrays her own brother to get a promotion.

​

 

[Xprimentyl]

Is not all of Rogue One very different in tone to the rest of Star Wars, though?

OTOH, while that scene was dark, they are enemy combatants, just outclassed ones he's killing. If he was a hero offing random stormtroopers and one of them did a Wilhelm scream and fell into a giant pit, it wouldn't be any less inherently violent.

As I said, I’m not a Star Wars aficionado by any stretch, but have seen most of the movies, and even I noted how… different the hallway scene felt. I think Rogue One, for me, was only tonally different for its lack of constant, iconic characters (this is coming from a guy for whom Star Wars = Luke, Leia, Chewy, Han Solo and Darth Vader; ) other than that, it was basically more Star Wars. It felt more like an aside, which is fine, but when Vader shows up and does what he does, it was just jarring in that “okay, we’re doing something WAY different here” sorta way.

I re-watched the scene on YouTube just now, and it still doesn’t fit well within the established, overarching Star Wars feel. Don’t get me wrong; I like it; it’s probably my favorite scene from the 40-year-old franchise in that we get to see the true darkness of the “Dark Side” and not just its implicit insidiousness. When out of the darkness, we see the red light saber ignite and what ensues is literally a massacre, not of faceless, dime-a-dozen storm troopers or muppets, but faced people running for their lives from an extremely tangible and powerful terror, it’s fucking awesome. Vader was already the lone redeeming quality of the franchise for me; getting to see him “get his hands dirty” was the coolest thing I’ve seen from it so far. Well, that, and the light-speeding into a Destroyer in Last Jedi was pretty cool, too.

 

[thebobmaster]

The hallway scene in Rogue One is basically "Star Wars, if it became a slasher film".

 

[Gordon_4]

The hallway scene in Rogue One is basically "Star Wars, if it became a slasher film".

And it was awesome.

 

[BrawlMan]

To prevent this from becoming another Star Wars rant thread, I'll throw in something different: Raizo from Ninja Assassin. The character is not completed wasted and his arc does get completed. But it sucks this movie never got a sequel. The way it ends leaves the finale open-ended, so it can work as a one off just in case of failure. It's clear though that they wanted to work on a sequel. We could have gotten a franchise of over the top gory ninja films. They would have all been Ninja Gaiden except in name.

God, I love this movie!

​

Casey and Shredder felt wasted in TMNT: Out of the Shadows. The former's backstory is changed for no reason and is now a cop, and the latter never gets to fight the Turtles on screen once. What's worse is that the movie ends on a sequel hook, and the film did not do well enough at the box office to do another sequel. Despite the sales mostly being average, and preforming highly better and more successful on DVD/Blu Ray. At least we got more screen time for the Turtles, and Bebop & Rocksteady are the best they've ever been. They were the best highlights of the movie.

​

 

[BrawlMan]

Promare - Galo's team mates. The movie is awesome, but it should have been a TV series. That way, his team mates have a way to shine truly or have their own dedicated episodes. Instead, the main focus is on Galo and Lio. This works, but once again, all of this should have been a 26 episode anime. That way Galo's team gets character development or backstory, and the same applies to Lio and his crew too.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, that, and the light-speeding into a Destroyer in Last Jedi was pretty cool, too.

Huh, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone who liked that bit. Apart from the moviemakers themselves, I guess. Though, I think it was more fans that were really annoyed.

 

[BrawlMan]

Huh, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone who liked that bit.

I love that bit, but I hate Admiral Holdo.

 

[happyninja42]

Huh, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone who liked that bit. Apart from the moviemakers themselves, I guess. Though, I think it was more fans that were really annoyed.

I love that bit, but I hate Admiral Holdo.

I think cinematically, as far as how it's presented, it's very well done. The sudden silence, as if we are actually IN the space near the event, but it's far enough away the sound hasn't reached us yet. So you have this scene, similar to witnessing a powerful lightning strike that burns your retinas, but the storm is far enough away that you don't hear the thunder for a long time. Then the wave of sound washing over you. It's similar to those depth charges that Jango Fett dropped in Attack of the Clones, and how there was an audio delay there as well, just on a larger scale.

I think Holdo was actually a wasted character. It would've made so much more sense for Leia to be the one in that chair, passing on the torch to the next generation, like they had been doing with the entire trilogy up to that point. I think Holdo was fine as a character, just very under-utilized.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think cinematically, as far as how it's presented, it's very well done. The sudden silence, as if we are actually IN the space near the event, but it's far enough away the sound hasn't reached us yet. So you have this scene, similar to witnessing a powerful lightning strike that burns your retinas, but the storm is far enough away that you don't hear the thunder for a long time. Then the wave of sound washing over you. It's similar to those depth charges that Jango Fett dropped in Attack of the Clones, and how there was an audio delay there as well, just on a larger scale.

I think Holdo was actually a wasted character. It would've made so much more sense for Leia to be the one in that chair, passing on the torch to the next generation, like they had been doing with the entire trilogy up to that point. I think Holdo was fine as a character, just very under-utilized.

That's my main problem with Holdo. She's a waste of space and nothing character that has no reason to exist. Other than some type of "subversion" of a traitor plot twist, and a complete unintentional annoyance to the audience. I found her more annoying than Jar Jar Binks. I admit it. Holdo has some defenders and fans, but not many.