Wasted characters.

happyninja42

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That's my main problem with Holdo. She's a waste of space and nothing character that has no reason to exist. Other than some type of "subversion" of a traitor plot twist, and a complete unintentional annoyance to the audience. I found her more annoying than Jar Jar Binks. I admit it. Holdo has some defenders and fans, but not many.
*shrugs* She didn't really endear me, or offend me, because as you accurately put it, they kind of made her a nothing character. She was just...there. I think she could've been good, but she didn't even survive one film so....*shrugs*

And personally I've found Jar Jar to be far less of an annoyance than I think he is made out to be. He's actually got one of the bits in Phantom Menace that I think is genuinely funny. The bit when he has his hand stuck in the pod engine, but his tongue is numb, and he's trying to call out for help. I thought that was some really good physical comedy really. I've come to actually like Jar Jar over the years, to some degree. I like that he was immediately friendly to all the droids when he went into the droid room "Hello Boyos!!" *waves happily at them, treating them like actual people* *Droids chirp back in greeting, one and all*

But yeah, Holdo, very missed opportunity there.
 

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*shrugs* She didn't really endear me, or offend me, because as you accurately put it, they kind of made her a nothing character. She was just...there. I think she could've been good, but she didn't even survive one film so....*shrugs*

And personally I've found Jar Jar to be far less of an annoyance than I think he is made out to be. He's actually got one of the bits in Phantom Menace that I think is genuinely funny. The bit when he has his hand stuck in the pod engine, but his tongue is numb, and he's trying to call out for help. I thought that was some really good physical comedy really. I've come to actually like Jar Jar over the years, to some degree. I like that he was immediately friendly to all the droids when he went into the droid room "Hello Boyos!!" *waves happily at them, treating them like actual people* *Droids chirp back in greeting, one and all*

But yeah, Holdo, very missed opportunity there.
Just so we're clear, I never hated Jar Jar that much either. The worst I felt from him was mainly indifference and some minor annoyance.
 

happyninja42

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Just so we're clear, I never hated Jar Jar that much either. The worst I felt from him was mainly indifference and some minor annoyance.
I probably disliked him a lot more when PM was first released in theaters. Mostly because I think they overdid his slapstick content in the film. But, I've also played roleplaying games, where a form of magic is Fate magic, which basically boils down to altering probability of things happening how you want, and seen fights play out similar to Jar Jar stumbling his way to blowing up tanks and stuff. Not to mention that this is basically how Domino from the Deadpool films operates. So yeah, Jar Jar is basically a slapstick version of Domino in my book. :D

Plus that was like 25 years ago so I just don't have that much emotion about it. I don't recall ever hating him, but initial thoughts weren't great. Since then, I've just mellowed and find him to be, one of the bits I actually remember about that film, and it's usually a positive memory, so I'm fine with him.
 
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Xprimentyl

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I probably disliked him a lot more when PM was first released in theaters. Mostly because I think they overdid his slapstick content in the film.
Jar Jar was where the scales tipped from disinterest towards dislike for Star Wars for me. The original trilogy was inoffensive, a thing I saw; never hit me as something worthy of the rabid following it'd garnered at that point. Then they made this huge fuss about a "NEW" Star Wars, and I saw that, and it was a CGI Muppet acting like an idiot and political "intrigue" for a couple of hours. I signed off then. PM didn't offend me, per se, but it certainly didn't help give the franchise any more significance with me. If I saw further films, fine; if not, fine. I watched Rogue One out of boredom, and can't recall much about it outside of that hallway scene when I perked up at Vader actually killing people, like actual violence; Vader wasn't just this ostensibly powerful and evil person; he WAS a powerful and evil person. Makes me look back on his death scene in Return like, "yeah, you came around in the end, but you were clearly a fucking MONSTER capable of the kinds of atrocities that make Dateline News." He wasn't in the hallway to impose his will and flex his political charisma as he'd mostly been used in previous films; he was there to kill people, and they showed it.

The hallway scene in Rogue One is basically "Star Wars, if it became a slasher film".
And it was awesome.
 
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happyninja42

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Jar Jar was where the scales tipped from disinterest towards dislike for Star Wars for me. The original trilogy was inoffensive, a thing I saw; never hit me as something worthy of the rabid following it'd garnered at that point. Then they made this huge fuss about a "NEW" Star Wars, and I saw that, and it was a CGI Muppet acting like an idiot and political "intrigue" for a couple of hours. I signed off then. PM didn't offend me, per se, but it certainly didn't help give the franchise any more significance with me. If I saw further films, fine; if not, fine. I watched Rogue One out of boredom, and can't recall much about it outside of that hallway scene when I perked up at Vader actually killing people, like actual violence; Vader wasn't just this ostensibly powerful and evil person; he WAS a powerful and evil person. Makes me look back on his death scene in Return like, "yeah, you came around in the end, but you were clearly a fucking MONSTER capable of the kinds of atrocities that make Dateline News." He wasn't in the hallway to impose his will and flex his political charisma as he'd mostly been used in previous films; he was there to kill people, and they showed it.
Yeah, it's sort of interesting to me, my relationship with the SW franchise. One of my earliest memories, is going to see RotJ in the theaters. I remember it because it was the first time I'd ever gone to a movie, and seen a line of people that long. The theater was in our local mall, and it was a capital i shaped building. The theater was off at the end of one of the crossbars, and the line was AALLL the way down to the center hub of the i. That just blew my little kid brain. We eventually got in there, and it was PACKED. Again, never saw anything that packed before, at any movie. I remember everyone being just dead silent, when Luke was on the gangplank over the sarlaac pit. We all knew he had something planned, but no idea. And the way the theater erupted in applause as he caught the saber, that iconic ignition sound, followed by John Williams' score soaring into a victorious swell. They went fucking nuts. I had never really been in a crowd of people that large, not that packed in you know? And definitely not anything that emotionally intense. It was amazing. I actually getting misty eyed typing this, remembering that event. I can pretty easily quote, verbatim, almost every line of the original trilogy, though I do have to be watching it while I do it. I love the franchise. It has had a massive impact on my personal psyche, and outlook on the world, in a lot of fundamental ways. I also am fascinated by the fact that SW is going to be something that will likely persist in human culture, for centuries. It has firmly taken hold in our collective psyche, and I think that's a pretty amazing thing.

But I also appreciate it's got some really ugly warts on a lot of it's content. Just, subpar, poorly written schlock. And that's ok to me. I don't defend it like a religious fanatic, and I don't mind if people say they don't like it. I will debate individual claims depending on what they are, as people conflate "bad" with "I didn't like it personally" a lot, and I think that needs addressing from time to time.

But if an individual movie or show isn't great, that's fine. I'll be disappointed, because I want things to be good, and don't want things to be bad. But, it doesn't "rape my childhood" if something doesn't live up to the hype. For someone, it was a powerful, and amazing experience, and I try not to shit on other people's parades if I can avoid it. I have a perfectly good, private toilet where I can handle my business, I don't need to spray it all over everyone else and ruin their day.
 

Asita

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That's my main problem with Holdo. She's a waste of space and nothing character that has no reason to exist. Other than some type of "subversion" of a traitor plot twist, and a complete unintentional annoyance to the audience. I found her more annoying than Jar Jar Binks. I admit it. Holdo has some defenders and fans, but not many.
I mean that's really the long and short of her. Up until the reveal of the shuttle plan she's functionally nothing more than a red herring that we're supposed to think is either A) an idiot who can neither plan nor improvise, only do whatever her superiors had already approved (ie, good First Mate, but a terrible Captain), B) a First Order mole who was (transparently) sticking to an already failed plan to ensure that the First Order would run down the Resistance with little difficulty, or C) Basically Denethor. Regardless, the point is to convince us in the audience that Poe needed to defy orders to prevent the Resistance from functionally committing suicide.

Hell, there's a bit in the movie where Poe literally pleads with Holdo to give the crew something to assure them that - now that the First Order had picked off all but one of their ships - Holdo had some kind of plan and hadn't just given up and been leading them to their deaths. "We had a fleet, now we're down to one ship, and you've told us nothing! Tell us that we have a plan! That there's hope!" The response basically amounted to "just trust me", with the ultimate apparent message both in-universe and out being "how dare you not blindly trust this new character despite her only actions up to this point having every indication of being self-defeating?" That's just bad storytelling.
 
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Gyrobot

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Karli from Falcon and Winter Soldier, they should have either didn't genderswap Flag Smasher and give us a Tyler Durden inspiration or made her a true Marxist rebel. While I can justify her characterization as a quick to rebel type with the foresight of a junkie. It doesn't excuse her from being a very weak MCU villain
 

09philj

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Karli from Falcon and Winter Soldier, they should have either didn't genderswap Flag Smasher and give us a Tyler Durden inspiration or made her a true Marxist rebel. While I can justify her characterization as a quick to rebel type with the foresight of a junkie. It doesn't excuse her from being a very weak MCU villain
The Flag Smasher was an anarchist, not a Marxist.
 
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Cicada 5

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Is this just for movies and tv or can other mediums allowed?
 

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Atom Eve in Invincible (the comic).

I'm close to finishing this story and Eve being the most prominent female character is relegated to just the girlfriend with very little agency. Honestly, all the female characters in this comic are defined to their relationships with the male characters and have little beyond that. Eve even has a moment where something very interesting is revealed about her powers that's just begging to be explored -- the story even treats this as a huge deal -- but then it just drops it and she goes back to being weepy-eyed spouse.

I'm curious how or if they're going to adress this in the animated series, because the female characters get totally shafted in the comic.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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I mean, hot take, but if you want to try and tell me Vader isn't bad at his job, the scene where he terrifies a hallway full of moods before elaborately bisecting them instead of just...force grabbing the data tapes isn't the scene I would go with.

Anakin Skywalker has always been a drama *****.

Anyway, Striga and Morana from Castlevania were intensely underutilized. Hell, Striga's armor deserved to show up more than once.
 

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That's my main problem with Holdo. She's a waste of space and nothing character that has no reason to exist. Other than some type of "subversion" of a traitor plot twist, and a complete unintentional annoyance to the audience. I found her more annoying than Jar Jar Binks. I admit it. Holdo has some defenders and fans, but not many.
Holdo was a stand in for Fischer. The whole dynamic of that quandry falls apart with a stranger but would have made more sense if they were going against Leia
 

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Holdo was a stand in for Fischer. The whole dynamic of that quandry falls apart with a stranger but would have made more sense if they were going against Leia
I know already. It's what makes it so infuriating. None of it was needed and only wastes the viewers time. Hold is a character that did not need to exist. She's no different from Near who acted as a stand in for L (when he kicked the bucket in Death Note), but way less interesting. When all you got is L, but a bit more bratty and more of an asshole. All I can say is a solid fuck you to creator in this regard.
 

Trunkage

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I know already. It's what makes it so infuriating. None of it was needed and only wastes the viewers time. Hold is a character that did not need to exist. She's no different from Near who acted as a stand in for L (when he kicked the bucket in Death Note), but way less interesting. When all you got is L, but a bit more bratty and more of an asshole. All I can say is a solid fuck you to creator in this regard.
She did need to exist... because Carrie probably wasn't healthy enough to do it. They probably should have just rewritten it.