What does Next Gen need to Sell you?
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
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I don't know, if he's got a Sony Trinitron or similar high end crt in good working order, he could still get a bit of money for it. Those are really desirable with the hardcore retro gaming crowd.
The rule my wife and I go with is there has to be 5 games on it that we want and we can't get elsewhere. The only reason I even bothered getting a PS4 was because I found one at a garage sale for $60, the only games it has that I wanted to play were Spiderman, Horizon, and Final Fantasy 7 (and I disliked Final Fantasy 7). I will get a Xbox probably around Christmas and I will get the PS6 likely also at a garage sale.
As someone who works as a 3D artist in games.... I feel like there's very little that distinguishes the PS4 gen from the PS5 gen besides higher specs.
There were pretty huge gaps in the past. Like when we went from the SNES gen to the PS1/N64 gen, pretty big gap. We went from mostly 2D games into a 3D generation.
The PS2/GC/XBox gen increased the potential polycount by a huge margin, lighting was more of a thing(even if it was largely pre-rendered or prebaked for most games), bump maps in certain games(mostly X-Box I think due to its comparatively higher specs). Well there was a huge visual difference either way.
In the PS3/360 gen, games had normal mapping, far higher poly count, much bigger use of dynamic lights. Huge visual leap from the previous gen.
In the PS4/XB1 gen, well not that much has changed really from a technological standpoint. It kinda all ticks the same, specs are just higher. This is the gen where Physically Based Rendering started to become a thing, so games were able to look a lot more realistic and lighting in general became a lot better.
Now in the PS5/X-Series gen.... honestly they are just beefier machines. Real Time Raytracing should have been the new paradigm shift, but I've seen how lukewarm the reception has been to that and I'm not really convinced that the consoles have the specs to really usher in a new era of real time RT. I haven't really been paying attention to the capability of the next gen consoles though. I think people are saying the PS5's Navi card is about as good as a 2070/2080? Which struggled to run RT capable games at high frame rates. But I don't own a PS5 so no real comment there. Also a lot of the current 'RT capable' games don't really run a proper full raytracing solution, it's like a weird hybridized thing. Cause full real time RT just wouldn't feasibly run well. Metro Enhanced Edition does sound like it's gone full RT though, but that's PC only. And it had to be a whole separate version because it's just the nature of how RT runs. Can't have proper RT happening if you got all your shitty baked lights still in and about along with the usual smoke and mirrors.
www.unrealengine.com
The current UE5 demos are showing off some impressive looking shit, so maybe there's a software solution to the whole RT conundrum, but it looks a little too good to be through so I'll believe it when I see it. And well, just because UE5 can accomplish it in their own theoretical best scenario doesn't mean every game will look like that anyway.
I need a decent PC to work anyway, so I can't say I'm super sold on the 'next generation'. Heck, even Microsoft itself doesn't seem to be banking that hard on the Series-X, it looks like they are more interested in selling the Game Pass as their true 'next gen console' in a way.
I'd like for real time raytracing to become normalized at some point though. It would make work easier. Though I'd also very much like to leave the industry I work in...
There were pretty huge gaps in the past. Like when we went from the SNES gen to the PS1/N64 gen, pretty big gap. We went from mostly 2D games into a 3D generation.
The PS2/GC/XBox gen increased the potential polycount by a huge margin, lighting was more of a thing(even if it was largely pre-rendered or prebaked for most games), bump maps in certain games(mostly X-Box I think due to its comparatively higher specs). Well there was a huge visual difference either way.
In the PS3/360 gen, games had normal mapping, far higher poly count, much bigger use of dynamic lights. Huge visual leap from the previous gen.
In the PS4/XB1 gen, well not that much has changed really from a technological standpoint. It kinda all ticks the same, specs are just higher. This is the gen where Physically Based Rendering started to become a thing, so games were able to look a lot more realistic and lighting in general became a lot better.
Now in the PS5/X-Series gen.... honestly they are just beefier machines. Real Time Raytracing should have been the new paradigm shift, but I've seen how lukewarm the reception has been to that and I'm not really convinced that the consoles have the specs to really usher in a new era of real time RT. I haven't really been paying attention to the capability of the next gen consoles though. I think people are saying the PS5's Navi card is about as good as a 2070/2080? Which struggled to run RT capable games at high frame rates. But I don't own a PS5 so no real comment there. Also a lot of the current 'RT capable' games don't really run a proper full raytracing solution, it's like a weird hybridized thing. Cause full real time RT just wouldn't feasibly run well. Metro Enhanced Edition does sound like it's gone full RT though, but that's PC only. And it had to be a whole separate version because it's just the nature of how RT runs. Can't have proper RT happening if you got all your shitty baked lights still in and about along with the usual smoke and mirrors.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
www.unrealengine.com
The current UE5 demos are showing off some impressive looking shit, so maybe there's a software solution to the whole RT conundrum, but it looks a little too good to be through so I'll believe it when I see it. And well, just because UE5 can accomplish it in their own theoretical best scenario doesn't mean every game will look like that anyway.
I need a decent PC to work anyway, so I can't say I'm super sold on the 'next generation'. Heck, even Microsoft itself doesn't seem to be banking that hard on the Series-X, it looks like they are more interested in selling the Game Pass as their true 'next gen console' in a way.
I'd like for real time raytracing to become normalized at some point though. It would make work easier. Though I'd also very much like to leave the industry I work in...
@wings012 the graphical gaps are getting smaller and smaller. However i do feel like this and even future generations are going to rely on expansive performance and emersion features. The ps5 loads stupid fast and even blows away my powerful gaming laptop with an SSD and a 2080rtx in it.
The controllers haptics are awesome and i am a big fan of the resistance triggers (though i know its not for everyone). And controllers for future shit can only get better. Hell i want sony to put that haptic shit in some vr controllers because that would be awesome.
Graphically though its not a terribly large jump. But it is a jump nontheless. Call it a small hop then. Also remember that it takes time for developers to really squeeze the real power out of a system. Some of the best looking shit doesnt come out until mid-late console cycle. And if the Demon's Souls remake is only the begining of the iceberg in that regard. Then later games are going to look insane.
The controllers haptics are awesome and i am a big fan of the resistance triggers (though i know its not for everyone). And controllers for future shit can only get better. Hell i want sony to put that haptic shit in some vr controllers because that would be awesome.
Graphically though its not a terribly large jump. But it is a jump nontheless. Call it a small hop then. Also remember that it takes time for developers to really squeeze the real power out of a system. Some of the best looking shit doesnt come out until mid-late console cycle. And if the Demon's Souls remake is only the begining of the iceberg in that regard. Then later games are going to look insane.
I am in the mind graphics going to be as good they can be. Not saying they peaked but in terms of visually speaking you can blow up textures on a tree for only so much.
I ask what can the technology do. How immersive can the make the worlds. How can they improve the performance. How can they innovate tried and true game designs. Hell I don't even own VR and its probably going to be out my price range and what innovations that could bring.
Its not even so much just the AAA space the AA and indie scene can make due with it. Not even what AAA title will drop what Indie master will drop on these next gen consoles.
So much can be said and to look forward to but due the "circumstances" we are all a aware of that might take a little be more time than what we are used too.
With that said I want a PS5 for Ratchet and Clank so I have the game I want and backwards compatible cause I still ride out for physcial. I will probably not get one yet for a while.
I mean you say Switch was next gen console before Sony and Microsoft dropped their consoles but their is a weird limbo of definitions for people so I technically own a next gen system shrugg.
I ask what can the technology do. How immersive can the make the worlds. How can they improve the performance. How can they innovate tried and true game designs. Hell I don't even own VR and its probably going to be out my price range and what innovations that could bring.
Its not even so much just the AAA space the AA and indie scene can make due with it. Not even what AAA title will drop what Indie master will drop on these next gen consoles.
So much can be said and to look forward to but due the "circumstances" we are all a aware of that might take a little be more time than what we are used too.
With that said I want a PS5 for Ratchet and Clank so I have the game I want and backwards compatible cause I still ride out for physcial. I will probably not get one yet for a while.
I mean you say Switch was next gen console before Sony and Microsoft dropped their consoles but their is a weird limbo of definitions for people so I technically own a next gen system shrugg.
No, it's some RCA piece of crap that I only kept because I was using Dance Dance Revolution on the PS2 as an exercise tool, and now I don't feel like getting around to donating somewhere. I haven't watched broadcast TV since like 2007.
Same. Haven't even owned a tv in like 10 years. Coincidentally, my last one was also still a crt. Pretty much just sat there gathering dust. Ok, we have one in the bedroom, but that's actually my girlfriend's. So it doesn't count.
I’d be willing to bet a small sum that 90+% of TV’s in bedrooms are the result of persistent pleading and griping on the part of the female unit until the male unit’s defenses are acquiesced to oblivion.
Anyone old enough to remember how cool marbles were? Well, now younger generations can witness their beauty in digitally rendered form!
Kind of? I mean, she paid for it, and her own Switch just so she could play in the bedroom. Did charm me into setting the tv up for her tho. Which I had to call a buddy for, because it's one those big wall panels, and I didn't feel like attempting that by myself.
But yeah, wouldn't take that bet. Pretty sure I'd lose.
Probably because the majority of people, myself included were like "...the fuck is ray tracing?" having never heard of it, and not sure why the fuck we should care about it now.
Raytracing is nothing but a stupid gimmick to enhance "real life graphics" and background details, albeit at a lower frame rate if you're on consoles at least.
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Yeah I recall seeing someone talking about it when they were first promoting it, they used Ghostrunner to illustrate the difference, which is mostly seems to be in tiny reflection details that I never pay attention to anyway, so I don't care. Like he STOPPED MOVING IN GHOSTRUNNER, to point out how the reflection of a background building was showing up in a puddle, and illustrated how it was different with ray tracing off. And all I'm thinking is "well that's nice and all but, if I have to STOP FUCKING MOVING in Ghostrunner to notice this detail, it's basically pointless fluff."
Capcom basically did the same thing when showcasing Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition on next-gen consoles. I'm killing demons. I'm barely going to stop and look at the backgrounds when I've already done so in your vanilla version. The differences are very minimal.
The thing is that, ten years ago, real-time raytracing would've absolutely blasted us out of our shoes- but all the shortcuts and kludges developers came up with in the meantime have gone a long way towards maintaining an immersive atmosphere without dinging performance. It's nice to stop once in a while and marvel at those real-time puddle reflections, but how often will you be doing that?
Full backwards compatibility for all previous consoles that company made that are physically capable of holding the gaming medium. So PS4, PS3, PS2, and PS1 backwards compatibility for Sony, XBOX One, Xbox 360, and OG Xbox for Microsoft. Probably not Nintendo since they change their cartridges every generation. I'm talking about physical media too, not downloads.
There's no reason this can't be done. The hardware is more than capable of emulating the previous consoles with no more needed to be added than there already is. It's a matter of software, not hardware that is important.
There's no reason this can't be done. The hardware is more than capable of emulating the previous consoles with no more needed to be added than there already is. It's a matter of software, not hardware that is important.
Reminds me of Monster Hunter World, some lovely backgrounds for photo mode. But in actual gameplay, it just made some of the derpier particle effects ("Dragon" element attacks which were like, red laser godzilla breath) stand out more against the super-HD real rock textures lol.
Rise on the Switch honestly does better for having gone back to the more cartoonish artstyle (still looks good though)
Remember how horrible these things called “polygons” looked at first back on 5th gen hardware, or even the Super FX stuff on SNES? Being told it would be the future and laughing at Lara’s pointy triangle bits? So fast forward to now, where we’re cynically complaining about things that look better than ever.
What’s important to keep tucked back in the mind is this stuff is all a process, and 99.9% of the time especially now it isn’t going to be some revolutionary jump that happens overnight or even in a few years. API’s at this stage are extremely iterative, and it’s more about making the most efficient tools to expand the pipeline to allow more details vs finding the next “polygon” kind of leap in rendering tech. Laws of diminishing returns and all that.
It’s also pretty doubtful if everyone stopped focusing on visuals that other things like groundbreaking levels of player agency or dynamic narratives, go anywhere do anything kind of design would emerge more rapidly, because that kinda stuff has undoubtedly been researched and trialed many times over with nowhere near the success level required to justify the time money and energy. Maybe someday but it’s still a long ways off, seeing as how procedural stuff is still largely considered a detriment next to the hand crafted approach.
Anyways, maybe RT is still considered a gimmick but gotta say this is the version of Mario 64 I’d want to play if I’d never seen any prior to it -
What’s important to keep tucked back in the mind is this stuff is all a process, and 99.9% of the time especially now it isn’t going to be some revolutionary jump that happens overnight or even in a few years. API’s at this stage are extremely iterative, and it’s more about making the most efficient tools to expand the pipeline to allow more details vs finding the next “polygon” kind of leap in rendering tech. Laws of diminishing returns and all that.
It’s also pretty doubtful if everyone stopped focusing on visuals that other things like groundbreaking levels of player agency or dynamic narratives, go anywhere do anything kind of design would emerge more rapidly, because that kinda stuff has undoubtedly been researched and trialed many times over with nowhere near the success level required to justify the time money and energy. Maybe someday but it’s still a long ways off, seeing as how procedural stuff is still largely considered a detriment next to the hand crafted approach.
Anyways, maybe RT is still considered a gimmick but gotta say this is the version of Mario 64 I’d want to play if I’d never seen any prior to it -