Marvel's L0Ki Discussion Thread

[SilentPony]

Everything on Disney+ so far though has been premium TV. If this was a CW show, I wouldn't have batted an eye at Sylvie. But her sheer lack of charisma, especially alongside Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson, stands out. I just genuinely dislike her, not even for her actions or her motivations. Just because she's a bore to watch, she adds absolutely nothing to show despite being a main character.

I wonder if she was casted because all the budget went to Hiddleston and Wilson. Considering her large role on the show, she's very unknown (to me at least).

The budget must be going to those two, because it certainly didn't go to the writers, the sets, costumes or graphics department. I mean giant smoke monsters circa the 2000s Fantastic 4 movies? Endless bland offices and aged 60s era computers, and big open green-screen fields. Closed department stores, and churches.
They're doing the best with what they have, but its clear they don't have much

 

[gorfias]

So, episode 5. I had a chuckle when I spotted the Thanos-Copter. And the Polybius arcade cabinet.

I'm a fan and had never heard of it. I also hear this guy's head was lying around in one scene



But the "pruning"... it doesn't kill you. It sends you somewhere where you are likely to be killed. Uh huh.

Like others, I was disappointed with the Loki fight for 30 Lokies. The episode was OK. Old Loki, the best thing in it.

Hope to be pleasantly surprised to find out what is really happening next week. Some say an ultimate Loki. Others, Imortus/Kang. Others... Doctor Doom? Doubt that one.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

I like giving explanations that don't actually explain anything. But if you must know, Throg is not Thor as a frog.

Ok, so ... footballer player loses wife and kid in tragic accident. Football player seeks help from witch to contact family in the beyond. Witch demands payment, dude can't pay. Witch punishes dude by turning him into a frog. Unable to reverse curse, frogdude come to live in Central Park with other frogs. There he eventually meets Thor, who was at that point also turned into a frog by Loki or whoever. Doesn't matter. Frogdude and frog Thor team up to defeat a baddy. During the battle, a small piece of Mjolnir breaks off. Frogdude finds piece after frog Thor has left. Because frogdude is worthy, he can pick it up and gains Thor's powers. Frogdude becomes protector of Central Park as Throg, Frog God of Thunder.

Ooh thanks! I was curious about it but often get anxieties with online convos especially after starting them, it's frustrating.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Well that was such a boring and pointless finale. And hooray, we're getting season 2

Ugh, can't even muster the energy to talk about it. I'll just say Kang is just some fucking dude who's not even BLUE, and was a huge disappointment in general.

Also what the fuck is up with the random addition and use of Loki's telekinesis??? It just seems so cheap, like they couldn't bother with some green particle effects.

 

[SilentPony]

Truly truly didn't see that ending coming. That's not a good or bad thing, just surprised.
Also I fucking called it!

Plus given what Marvel has done in the past, completely rewriting characters and changing them completely, I wouldn't be surprised if Kang the Conquer ends up being like a stand-up comedian or just some dude in Guardians 3. They did that to the Mandarin in Iron man 3, and to the multiverse in Spiderman 2.

Spoiler

Kang the Conqueror is actually Kang the...dude, who doesn't want to conquer and is peaceful and is dead. Guess he'll cameo as a corpse in Antman 3. I know some people like this, but for me Marvel just pulling a switcharoo on us and completely changing a character isn't clever or fun, its writers malpractice. If you needed someone not blue who isn't interested in conquering and isn't a magical time-traveler from the future and related to the Fantastic 4, why did you choose the blue skinned Kang the Conqueror, also known as Nathaniel Richards from the future.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Spoiler

Kang the Conqueror is actually Kang the...dude, who doesn't want to conquer and is peaceful and is dead. Guess he'll cameo as a corpse in Antman 3. I know some people like this, but for me Marvel just pulling a switcharoo on us and completely changing a character isn't clever or fun, its writers malpractice. If you needed someone not blue who isn't interested in conquering and isn't a magical time-traveler from the future and related to the Fantastic 4, why did you choose the blue skinned Kang the Conqueror, also known as Nathaniel Richards from the future.

He was just a variant after all. Real dude could be someone more menacing. That said, he was unbearable and I felt like I was watching an amateur actor auditioning for their first gig.

 

[SilentPony]

He was just a variant after all. Real dude could be someone more menacing. That said, he was unbearable and I felt like I was watching an amateur actor auditioning for their first gig.

See I didn't really take note of the acting good or bad, I was just floored that Marvel is completely changing yet another character. Now to be fair Kang was always goofy so there's no real hope either way, but making him not blue and basically the Joker isn't doing anyone any favors.
And Im not sure what's left for Season 2 to explore. The only thread left is Tomki and Femki's relationship, and it'd be really weird for her to kick him into another dimension, and then they spend all of Season 2 trying to get back together. It can't be Tomki spends the series trying to undo what they just did, and Femki doesn't have much to do anymore.

 

[gorfias]

That was incredibly slow, tedious, boring, long and drawn out for something that was only some 40 min. long.
And in film, show, don't tell. We literally get to see this clownish person sit down with the Lokies and expound for what felt like an eternity.
So, of Marvel TV?
Loki comes in last of the big 3. Not a bad cliff hanger but given the sour taste they left in my mouth, do I care? I don't want to be Charlie Brown to Disney's Lucy with the football.
Falcon and Winter Soldier 2. Just forgettable. Really seemed to cheapen the idea of even becoming a super soldier. And without being one, Falcon is the guy Steve lapped repeatedly in Winter Soldier. He isn't super. Costume was very good though. I wasn't as disgussted with it as I am Loki.
Wandavision: I really enjoyed this one. Things others found cheesy, I really had fun with, especially white vision. It was morally confused as all get out in that, with no one really pulling her strings, it was Wanda, not Agatha all along. Yet for some reason you're supposed to feel bad for her. "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" Oy.

 

[SilentPony]

That was incredibly slow, tedious, boring, long and drawn out for something that was only some 40 min. long.
And in film, show, don't tell. We literally get to see this clownish person sit down with the Lokies and expound for what felt like an eternity.
So, of Marvel TV?
Loki comes in last of the big 3. Not a bad cliff hanger but given the sour taste they left in my mouth, do I care? I don't want to be Charlie Brown to Disney's Lucy with the football.
Falcon and Winter Soldier 2. Just forgettable. Really seemed to cheapen the idea of even becoming a super soldier. And without being one, Falcon is the guy Steve lapped repeatedly in Winter Soldier. He isn't super. Costume was very good though. I wasn't as disgussted with it as I am Loki.
Wandavision: I really enjoyed this one. Things others found cheesy, I really had fun with, especially white vision. It was morally confused as all get out in that, with no one really pulling her strings, it was Wanda, not Agatha all along. Yet for some reason you're supposed to feel bad for her. "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" Oy.

See I actually enjoyed Falcon/Winter soldier because of how it handled race in America, and both Sam and Bucky coming to terms with a world without Steve. Carli was a non-starter, but I am interested in what American Agent will do. And doesn't Sam eventually become a super solider in the comics?
WandaVision I grew to not like as the episodes went on because nothing was happening and there were just so many plot holes and dead-ends. It felt like it was written with a TV show's plot, rather than a plot used for a TV show. What i mean is that characters all but said "To be continued" when it came to plot twists. It felt like the characters were aware they were in a TV show and not real people, and were aware that we the audience were watching. Like Sword being involved with the Hex and sending in Agents only makes sense if you haven't seen the last few episodes, which the audience hadn't. But like Sword should have been aware that Vision was still in their lab, and acting like Wanda brought him back only makes sense if they're trying to trick the audience.

But I agree Loki is dead last. It was all just a Kang origin story, and had nothing to really do with Loki. Tom Hiddleson was just available and in shape, so they used that character. Explains why I thought there was no set tone and the music didn't hit, because it was all filler to get to Kang and they're not going to shell out for the good stuff for a literal throw-away plot.

 

[laggyteabag]

Yeah, Loki was a dud.

The pacing was poor, multiple characters/plot points ultimately felt redundant - including Loki himself - and it just felt like a 6-hour long drumroll for the Kang the Conqueror and multiverse reveal.

The last episode was effectively just people standing and having a chat, or people sitting and having a chat. There were no signs of life at all. Then there was a small fight scene that felt incredibly forced, and then it was "bam! Cliffhanger! See you for season 2!"

Out of all of the Marvel shows that we have seen so far, this was by far my least favourite.

Loki sets up a lot of really cool stuff that im really looking forward to - but the show failed to impress at almost every turn, and was ultimately just boring, which is the worst sin of all.

To sum up my feelings on the show, when Kang was explaining the multiverse war he took part in, I just thought to myself "Damn, I wish I was watching that instead".

 

[SilentPony]

To sum up my feelings on the show, when Kang was explaining the multiverse war he took part in, I just thought to myself "Damn, I wish I was watching that instead".

It reminds me of that movie The Nun that's in like in one of the spooky ghost franchises, where its boring as fuck bland horror movie. But then there's a scene where one of the Nuns is explaining the history of the church they're in, and she's like "There was an evil Duke in the Dark Ages who was sacrificing his people to Satan in order to open a portal to hell and bring forth a legion of demons, and finally he succeeded and demons began to manifest in the basement, and then suddenly a Catholic Inquisitor leading an army of Crusading knights stormed in and a great battle was fought between the armies of hell and the Church, and some of the Knights went into the hell portal to close it from the other side, and they're noble Saints now." and then the scene ends and its back to boring horror movie, and I was like Holy shit, why aren't we seeing THAT movie? That movie sounds rad as hell, and if the writers could come up with something like desperate battle between crusaders and hellspawn in the basement of a church while an evil Duke tries to take over the world, why in holy fuck are we watching a movie about some nuns just talking about that?!

 

[Piscian]

I thought the climax was pretty great all around. It somewhat redeemed itself from last episode and remains my favorite of the three.

The final episode left me with a lot to churn on. Initially I was vastly disappointed with the Kang reveal. I was hoping it would be something more interesting as Kang has always been kind of a stand in villain mcguffin like the Evolutionary. Nobody gives a shit about Kang and anyone who says they do is a liar. Then him being kinda guffy set me off.

That said once he actually laid everything out I got real interested. The reason he's out of his mind is that hes essentially been alive for thousands of years so hes bored and tired. His quirkiness grew on me. The idea that he accidently created a "Kang Multiverse" was kind of a neat concept. Hes not deleting timelines, hes targeting near tangent timelines in which a Kang materializes. Also he never said he deleted all other time lines, he said he "isolated" one timeline and is deleting branches which would create another Kang. In theory the idea of this upcoming Kang war sounds pretty nifty, I'm onboard. Looking forward to Season 2.

I thought this version of Kang was fine, I'm sure the dumbass blue one which show up at some point though I couldn't care less. Im kind of interested to see what kind of Kang will show up in Ant-man. I know its the same actor, but with a totally different personality. I wonder if itll be several variants?

My only big complaint about the episode is the fight scene. Its was pointless, overlong and out of character. Loki isnt nor has he ever been all kung-fu'ie. Whomever is the producer on this show probably looked at other popular shows and demanded a fight scene "cause audiences get bored".

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Loki wasn't really about Loki any more than Black Widow was about Black Widow. In the end it's always about setting as much stuff as possible for the next five years of shows/movies/spin-offs. And there's a very convenient trend of cheap C-listers replacing the more expensive, probably too busy A-list names.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

That said once he actually laid everything out I got real interested. The reason he's out of his mind is that hes essentially been alive for thousands of years so hes bored and tired. His quirkiness grew on me. The idea that he accidently created a "Kang Multiverse" was kind of a neat concept.

It was a neat concept, that they showed in a fucking action figure diorama sequence. That really felt so cheap. If they had shot even just a few scenes with the actor surrounded by the horrors of a multiverse war, maybe I would have bought the idea that he fears his variants and is tired of being He Who Remains.

My only big complaint about the episode is the fight scene. Its was pointless, overlong and out of character.

I laughed when Loki said "Wait!" then immediately proceeded to try and cut Sylvie's head off.

OT: I now realize why this ending bothered me so much. It feels exactly like a Netflix show's ending, aka a cliffhanger that resolves nothing and makes you feel like the whole season you just watched was pointless. I guess it's a good thing that this came out in a weekly format, because if this was the ending I was given after binging for 6 hours, I would have been legitimately angry.

 

[Piscian]

Weird news

A. Apparently a second season was not originally plan and

B. Kate herron, the producer director, will not return.

My guess is that Feige and Russo Bros as they planned out whatever phase were in, saw an opportunity to do more world building with the show rather it just being a villain reveal. The Kate thing is a little weird. Im very curious what the logic was in hiring someone with almost zero credits to do a one time big visibility job like this. She's stated she has no interest in coming back. Either her relationship with the studio went south or there was some curious reason for her hiring in the first place. I can think of a couple reasons why a studio like Disney would pull a move like this but I'd rather not say it out loud.

Loki director Kate Herron won't be back for season 2

Loki director Kate Herron won't be back for season 2

www.avclub.com

Full interview. She answers some minor plot questions. Makes it sound like it would be too exhausting to do another season, but marvel execs wanted it so she chose to leave.

‘Loki’ Director Kate Herron on Casting Jonathan Majors with Peyton Reed and Sylvie’s “Horrible Goodbye”

The filmmaker bids farewell to the hit Disney+ series and looks at some of the big swings she and the team took in the finale.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Hades]

Curiously for such beloved character its Loki who I consider to be the biggest weak link in Loki.

I think the problem is that the writing team was far too exited to bring back the Loki we lost in Infinity War. They wanted to return to redeemed Loki but artistically this only really worked if they went with a divergent Loki. This series is about Avengers Loki who escaped capture after his defeat. This was the ideal chance to go for a more villainous or at least a more comically callous Loki but the team just wasn't interested in that. It becomes really obvious this Loki is only there to bring back redeemed Loki rather than because they had any interesting ideas what to do with a Loki that missed his shot at redemption. And the return of redeemed Loki just isn't deserved due to this Loki getting three movies worth of character development stuffed into him just by watching a montage at the TVA headquarters. And even without all that I find this Loki to be particularly charmless. He's too soft with the more teasing wit of Loki often not really being there.

I'm not particularly fond of Sylvie either. I think she'd be fine as her own character but that her downfall is being a Loki variant. She shares not a single trait with Loki which makes her status as a variant of Loki distracting. Mobius mentions how messed up it is that Loki could fall for another version of himself but Sylvie really doesn't share any trait in which Loki might recognize himself which kinda goes against the point.

 

[SilentPony]

Understanding Loki as a tv show, we need to understand Disney and Marvel's policies going forward. Straight up the show isn't about Loki at all, and 5 and a half of the episodes are filler. Its all to get to Kang and the Multiverse, and any character could have done it. There is no connection between Loki and the multiverse, its just Tom Hiddleston was available and within budget. Any character could have teamed up with an alternate world version and fill time.
And going forward Disney has said no actors will ever sign multi-movie contracts. Everyone will be a single movie deal, and they'll see how it does. They don't want another RDJ who can ask for another zero on his paycheck and they have to go with it. Disney wants to prove they own the IP, not the actors. So they needed the multiverse as a way to allow for alternate universe versions of characters, meaning re-casting. The multiverse allows them to play hardball with actors and contracts, but they can always recast for a movie. Sebastian Stan or Elizabeth Olsen want more money? Well the next Avengers movie will just use a multiverse version of their characters, and there isn't an aspiring actor in the world who doesn't take that call.
And they've done it before. Terrence Howard wanted more money to be War Machine, they brought on Don Cheadle. Edward Norton is notoriously hard to work him, replace him. And Im sure the death of Chadwick Boseman reinforced the concept that the casting needs to be more fluid. They need options and bargaining room.

 

[SilentPony]

Okay I don't really like fan theories, but this one is interesting in a probably completely coincidence way: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a37077317/loki-wandavision-finale-scenes-synced-fan-theory/

Basically if you sync up the last ten minutes of the Loki and WandaVision finales, the point where Kang the Peaceful pauses and says for the first time he doesn't know what's going to happen is exactly when Wanda embraces her chaos magic and defeats what's her face and breaks open the Hex, thus breaking open the multiverse with her kids and whatnot.

So really Loki the series is about Kang the Peaceful and Scarlet Witch, and has nothing to do with Loki at all. Tom Hiddleston was just available and they had to make 5.5 episodes of meaningless filler to get to Kang.

 

[Gergar12]

I cannot believe the fan theories about the final villain were true. This is very rare for a show that is as good as this one.