Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[TheMysteriousGX]

BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HER. If I bumped into her in the real world, I wouldn't know.

If you bumped into *them* in the real world, it's highly unlikely that you'd have a reason to use *their* third person singular pronouns within earshot of *them*. Pretty much just like anybody else, because I'm drawing a blank on reasons to use somebody's third person pronouns while interacting with them specifically without being rude as fuck. You'd normally be using their second person pronouns, which for English is just variations of You, a gender neutral pronoun

She's indeed a female thus I would refer to her as a female with pronouns. There's a difference between trying to be nice and actually being nice, if the person is actually being nice, then they are being nice.

Then you're being a Nice Guy, not a nice guy.

It's not like you in the story were "showing off" as nice but being passive aggressive about it (like some family member you don't like), you were just being normal nice to the person. Maybe that lady should think about changing her own perception of what the word "ma'am" means to her because calling guys "sir" and gals "ma'am" is very very common and does not refer to age by the vast majority of society (at most they just mean you're of adult age).

I was not, in fact, being nice to my coworker by continuing to do a thing she found highly annoying when referring to her specifically.

I glossed over this before but: obviously not a woman who spent any significant time in the south, lol. That or she hated every minute of it. We kinda say that reflexively here. What did she want to substitute for ma'am anyway? Just drop it entirely?

Yeah, wanted it dropped entirely, which I didn't get at the time because I was a clueless kid. Get it now though: Montana's had an influx of southerners fleeing to here who seem to think that just because we don't like Californians moving in we must be just like them. Every time I get called "Honey" I have a visceral reaction and have to unclench my fists. Thank god for masks, my poker face can only hold for so long

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Because dysphoria is a thing. To deliberately misgender a person is rude, disrespectful, antagonistic, and in general just plain assholish. It's not hard. Mistakes happen, sure, but mistakes are not a big deal. Disrespect and antagonization however, is. You want to be rude to a transperson? Then you're labeling yourself an asshole, and should be treated as such.

Seriously. Don't be a dick. Or an asshole.

If I'm using pronouns based on sex, how is that misgendering someone?

Then construct the sentence better. Speak better English.



You're going to have a fucking stroke when you learn about nicknames. Why is this an imposition upon you? Be real.



No, you're being difficult. There's a difference. You're acting as if this is some, vast perplexing problem with no solution except to continue misgendering people for your own comfort.



Once again, spoken like a man who thinks the rest of the world secretly agrees with him. Your arrogance knows no bounds.



Because dysphoria is a thing. By going on about how confusing it is to you, you're admitting to being stupid, an asshole, or both. Which is it?



Linguists, intersectionalists, psychologists and other people far more intelligent and educated than you pretend to be are already having this debate.

-The english was fine.
-Nicknames are just alternatives to names, it's like an alias in programming. The actual Powershell command for copy isn't "copy" but copy-item, yet you can still use just copy because copy is an alias for copy-item. Either works just like if you call someone Richard, Rick, or Dick. Or if someone's name is Elizabeth and she prefers Liz, you just file that down in your brain that her name is Liz. Mind you, I'm talking about people being bad with names when you either just meet someone or it's someone you don't really see often, most aren't good at remembering names let alone the attached pronoun.
-It's not a problem to begin with.
-If I'm using pronouns based on sex, how is that misgendering someone?

The example is meaningless.

Imagine we had Sue and Jane who both idenfied as female. You can't use "she" in that situation because it unclear whether it means Sue or Jane. Are you then to argue "she" doesn't work as a third person singular pronoun?

If I say Jane wants the pronoun they and I say "They went to the store", we're back at the initial problem I outlined.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If I say Jane wants the pronoun they and I say "They went to the store", we're back at the initial problem I outlined.

There's no initial problem: you'd resolve that situation the same way you would if you had two people using the same pronouns when only one of them went to the store
EDIT:

If I'm using pronouns based on sex, how is that misgendering someone?

I can't perceive your sex over the internet so I'm going to assume it's the statistically more likely female instead of your specifically stated gender identity and preference. That's cool, right? I'm just being nice

 

[Phoenixmgs]

If you bumped into *them* in the real world, it's highly unlikely that you'd have a reason to use *their* third person singular pronouns within earshot of *them*. Pretty much just like anybody else, because I'm drawing a blank on reasons to use somebody's third person pronouns while interacting with them specifically without being rude as fuck. You'd normally be using their second person pronouns, which for English is just variations of You, a gender neutral pronoun
Then you're being a Nice Guy, not a nice guy.
I was not, in fact, being nice to my coworker by continuing to do a thing she found highly annoying when referring to her specifically.

Like I said if she was at customer service and helping me and another worker asked if I was being helped, I'd point and say she's helping me if she's within sight. If you weren't purposefully doing it, then you aren't being rude. People have very hard to break speaking habits and getting mad at someone for not being able to break it as fast as they'd like isn't nice on their part either. There's plenty of different things people used to refer to others by like some people call others sweethearts. What about when someone sneezes, are you supposed to ask their religion first before saying "god, bless you" or just "bless you"? I'm not religious and I'd prefer people not to "bless me" but what's the point of making a deal about it? What's the benefit of me getting upset/annoyed by it to begin with and/or making the other person feel worse? I can just let the exchange go, thank them for being nice, and both of us would have overall better day as a result.

There's no initial problem: you'd resolve that situation the same way you would if you had two people using the same pronouns when only one of them went to the store
EDIT:
I can't perceive your sex over the internet so I'm going to assume it's the statistically more likely female instead of your specifically stated gender identity and preference. That's cool, right? I'm just being nice

Why complicate issues when you don't have to? It says my gender under my avatar... Like I said though, I only care about other people's intent.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Like I said if she was at customer service and helping me and another worker asked if I was being helped, I'd point and say she's helping me if she's within sight. If you weren't purposefully doing it, then you aren't being rude. People have very hard to break speaking habits and getting mad at someone for not being able to break it as fast as they'd like isn't nice on their part either. There's plenty of different things people used to refer to others by like some people call others sweethearts.

One offs with randos I'd brush off, but if I had to work with some prick who's repeatedly calling me "sweetheart" after I asked them to stop you better believe I'd lose my shit, intent be damned.

Why complicate issues when you don't have to? It says my gender under my avatar... Like I said though, I only care about other people's intent.

What's complicated? I'm merely assuming you're the most statistically likely sex. It's very simple for me specifically and I'm just being nice.
EDIT:
You also haven't mentioned how you'd resolve the whole "two people with the same pronouns but only one went to the store" dilemma, and why that wouldn't work for the singular they

 

[Buyetyen]

-The english was fine.
-Nicknames are just alternatives to names, it's like an alias in programming. The actual Powershell command for copy isn't "copy" but copy-item, yet you can still use just copy because copy is an alias for copy-item. Either works just like if you call someone Richard, Rick, or Dick. Or if someone's name is Elizabeth and she prefers Liz, you just file that down in your brain that her name is Liz. Mind you, I'm talking about people being bad with names when you either just meet someone or it's someone you don't really see often, most aren't good at remembering names let alone the attached pronoun.
-It's not a problem to begin with.
-If I'm using pronouns based on sex, how is that misgendering someone?

-No, because the sentence was muddy and hard to understand by your own admission.
-You're not expected to just know. If you get it wrong, it's an honest mistake and they'll correct you.
-I am unsurprised that you think something that doesn't directly effect you cannot possibly be a problem.
-If you use the wrong one, then you're misgendering by definition.

 

[Agema]

If I say Jane wants the pronoun they and I say "They went to the store", we're back at the initial problem I outlined.

It's not a meaningful problem, is it?

You're essentially complaining about a situation where a pronoun may relate to two things, therefore using the pronoun causes ambiguity. And yet this already happens routinely, even without having to magic up a scenario where a person decides to refer to themselves with the pronoun "they". So what the hell is the problem? Deal with it the same way you will already have dealt with it many thousands of times in your lifetime already: use a more precise identifier as necessary.

 

[Trunkage]

What strawman? The lines of dialogue purposefully doesn't include what's actually being discussed. And what the joke actually is referring to has nothing to do with trans people. Why do you think it's about trans people? You do realize It's Always Sunny is a very popular show and that almost everyone will laugh at that scene. Your life can get turned upside down by cancel culture, just google Justine Sacco. Is there some high probability that it will happen? Nope, but that fact it's a possibility is pretty sad.

Yes, I do understand its a joke
You DO NOT understand its a joke.

Otherwise you wouldn't be going on like this. The only way any of this ma'am/ they/ syntax stuff is a problem AT ALL is if you think there is going to be any serious repercussions from using the wrong word

(Well, I hope this is about serious repercussions. I HOPE you aren't doing all this because you are frighten of someone disagreeing with you about who's what gender.)

Lastly, have you ever heard about the term 'coming out of the closet.' And that the people 'in the closet' are there specifically because they were being cancelled? Like, lose friends, fired from jobs, thrown out of families. You're one example of Sacco - blow that up about x5 as much damage and then make sure it covers a whole demographic. Yes, we know cancel culture exists. It's been going on constantly for centuries. Pretending Rowling and Chappelle are seriously cancelled like a lot of people are today is such cognitive dissonance, particularly when they are advocating for it.

 

[bluegate]

Where does everyone keep finding the energy to continue this conversation? Please do share thine secrets.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Where does everyone keep finding the energy to continue this conversation? Please do share thine secrets.

My mental illness gives me a fantastic amount of energy that I can only spend on stupid things.

 

[evilneko]

If I'm using pronouns based on sex, how is that misgendering someone?

You know better than that, you've had it explained to you. Seriously, don't be a dick.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

One offs with randos I'd brush off, but if I had to work with some prick who's repeatedly calling me "sweetheart" after I asked them to stop you better believe I'd lose my shit, intent be damned.

What's complicated? I'm merely assuming you're the most statistically likely sex. It's very simple for me specifically and I'm just being nice.

Yeah, and the people that work with you rarely refer to you by pronouns and when they do, you probably aren't even there? Like, "Where'd Mysterious go? [pronoun] went to the bathroom." The time that pronouns mainly come into play in a group setting (work, friends, family) is telling stories of something that happened for those that weren't present.

Sure thing buddy. If you saw someone with their back turned and couldn't tell the sex, you wouldn't even attempt using like a "sir" or "ma'am" and you'd just say "excuse me". No one is assuming woman or man based on stats ever, that's not a thing.

-No, because the sentence was muddy and hard to understand by your own admission.
-You're not expected to just know. If you get it wrong, it's an honest mistake and they'll correct you.
-I am unsurprised that you think something that doesn't directly effect you cannot possibly be a problem.
-If you use the wrong one, then you're misgendering by definition.

-No it wasn't. I just said there was a John and Jane and then they went to the store. Nobody would misunderstand that. I just said that if John or Jane are referred to as they, that could make that line misunderstood.
-People are going to get it wrong a lot because that's how brains work, you focus on high priority things and just sorta autopilot the other things. It's like that one video of people passing a ball around and your have to count the passes and most people don't notice the person in the ape suit that walks by.
-Why most pronouns be gender-based vs sex-based?
-Not if you're basing it on sex vs gender.

Yes, I do understand its a joke
You DO NOT understand its a joke.

Otherwise you wouldn't be going on like this. The only way any of this ma'am/ they/ syntax stuff is a problem AT ALL is if you think there is going to be any serious repercussions from using the wrong word

(Well, I hope this is about serious repercussions. I HOPE you aren't doing all this because you are frighten of someone disagreeing with you about who's what gender.)

Lastly, have you ever heard about the term 'coming out of the closet.' And that the people 'in the closet' are there specifically because they were being cancelled? Like, lose friends, fired from jobs, thrown out of families. You're one example of Sacco - blow that up about x5 as much damage and then make sure it covers a whole demographic. Yes, we know cancel culture exists. It's been going on constantly for centuries. Pretending Rowling and Chappelle are seriously cancelled like a lot of people are today is such cognitive dissonance, particularly when they are advocating for it.

Yes I do and it's funny because of the ring of truth it has like you can't just identify as some ethnicity without being one.

I don't personally care about repercussions, I just find it dumb and pointless.

Do you think I only dislike cancel culture when it comes for me? Because that isn't true. There's a transgender women in our board game group and one of the old guys (like 70) asked me what's up with so-and-so and I'm like "nothing" cuz she's just a person like everyone else.

You also haven't mentioned how you'd resolve the whole "two people with the same pronouns but only one went to the store" dilemma, and why that wouldn't work for the singular they

It's not a meaningful problem, is it?

You're essentially complaining about a situation where a pronoun may relate to two things, therefore using the pronoun causes ambiguity. And yet this already happens routinely, even without having to magic up a scenario where a person decides to refer to themselves with the pronoun "they". So what the hell is the problem? Deal with it the same way you will already have dealt with it many thousands of times in your lifetime already: use a more precise identifier as necessary.

The english language has issues, that doesn't mean you just keep adding issues that really aren't needed. If some story that involved 2 black cats, you'd have to specify more details about which one you're talking about too. Like I said above, your brain does this stuff on autopilot and constantly having to consider pronouns every time just ain't gonna happen.

 

[Buyetyen]

-No it wasn't. I just said there was a John and Jane and then they went to the store. Nobody would misunderstand that. I just said that if John or Jane are referred to as they, that could make that line misunderstood.
-People are going to get it wrong a lot because that's how brains work, you focus on high priority things and just sorta autopilot the other things. It's like that one video of people passing a ball around and your have to count the passes and most people don't notice the person in the ape suit that walks by.
-Why most pronouns be gender-based vs sex-based?
-Not if you're basing it on sex vs gender.

This is all quite beside the point that you have to yet to demonstrate the use of "they" as a singular person pronoun constitutes a problem and you're making shit up to justify it. Just fucking call people what they ask to be called, it's not this great imposition upon you.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

This is all quite beside the point that you have to yet to demonstrate the use of "they" as a singular person pronoun constitutes a problem and you're making shit up to justify it. Just fucking call people what they ask to be called, it's not this great imposition upon you.

Pronouns aren't names.

You do realize this ain't ever gonna happen right?

HE/SHE	HIM/HER	HIS/HER	HIS/HERS	HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie	zim	zir	zis	zieself
sie	sie	hir	hirs	hirself
ey	em	eir	eirs	eirself
ve	ver	vis	vers	verself
tey	ter	tem	ters	terself
e	em	eir	eirs	emself

 

[thebobmaster]

Look, we get it, it's easier for you to be disrespectful of someone's pronoun choice than it is for you to use the right pronouns. Stop trying to defend it as anything other than that.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Pronouns aren't names.

You do realize this ain't ever gonna happen right?

HE/SHE	HIM/HER	HIS/HER	HIS/HERS	HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie	zim	zir	zis	zieself
sie	sie	hir	hirs	hirself
ey	em	eir	eirs	eirself
ve	ver	vis	vers	verself
tey	ter	tem	ters	terself
e	em	eir	eirs	emself

Why not, I already know more than 6 names.
Ikenfell has neo-pronouns in it and nobody managed to be confused by an indie Switch game.

Sure thing buddy. If you saw someone with their back turned and couldn't tell the sex, you wouldn't even attempt using like a "sir" or "ma'am" and you'd just say "excuse me". No one is assuming woman or man based on stats ever, that's not a thing.

Exactly. So why's it so hard to use non-gendered pronouns?

-No it wasn't. I just said there was a John and Jane and then they went to the store. Nobody would misunderstand that. I just said that if John or Jane are referred to as they, that could make that line misunderstood.

If you changed nothing to account for context, sure. Just like if I said "Sue and Sally were here, then she went to the store". Which would be a stupid way to say that. Doesn't mean that "she" shouldn't be used as a pronoun.

-Why most pronouns be gender-based vs sex-based?
-Not if you're basing it on sex vs gender.

Not how the English language is currently being used, as much as that might be convenient for you. Also would bring up the intersex bugbear.

The english language has issues, that doesn't mean you just keep adding issues that really aren't needed. If some story that involved 2 black cats, you'd have to specify more details about which one you're talking about too. Like I said above, your brain does this stuff on autopilot and constantly having to consider pronouns every time just ain't gonna happen.

...or you just add more details, like with two black cats. I swear, you're expending more energy trying to not expend energy that you would if you just rolled with it.

 

[bluegate]

Pronouns aren't names.

You do realize this ain't ever gonna happen right?

HE/SHE	HIM/HER	HIS/HER	HIS/HERS	HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie	zim	zir	zis	zieself
sie	sie	hir	hirs	hirself
ey	em	eir	eirs	eirself
ve	ver	vis	vers	verself
tey	ter	tem	ters	terself
e	em	eir	eirs	emself

Screw that random gibberish though.

 

[Trunkage]

I don't personally care about repercussions, I just find it dumb and pointless.

Do you think I only dislike cancel culture when it comes for me? Because that isn't true. There's a transgender women in our board game group and one of the old guys (like 70) asked me what's up with so-and-so and I'm like "nothing" cuz she's just a person like everyone else.

Wow. Well arent you a good boy. Here's your totally earn badge

You being in this club means you had a point

Wow guys. Pheonixings has the token minority friend which means that they cant POSSIBILY be against minorities

No, wait. That's not correct. It actually means nothing. Just a distraction from answering questions.

Or, if anything, you are just making up your displeasure over this:

HE/SHE	HIM/HER	HIS/HER	HIS/HERS	HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie	zim	zir	zis	zieself
sie	sie	hir	hirs	hirself
ey	em	eir	eirs	eirself
ve	ver	vis	vers	verself
tey	ter	tem	ters	terself
e	em	eir	eirs	emself

 

[Agema]

The english language has issues, that doesn't mean you just keep adding issues that really aren't needed. If some story that involved 2 black cats, you'd have to specify more details about which one you're talking about too. Like I said above, your brain does this stuff on autopilot and constantly having to consider pronouns every time just ain't gonna happen.

It can very easily happen. For instance, take learning new words and adding to your vocabulary, which you do all the time without even really thinking, and which add to the complexity of language.

Please stop making up silly arguments. You're trying to present simple and natural processes we do with no trouble at all as some sort of incredible and unbearable burden. They aren't. If you don't want to do them, it's just your choice and nothing more.

 

[Buyetyen]

Pronouns aren't names.

You do realize this ain't ever gonna happen right?

HE/SHE	HIM/HER	HIS/HER	HIS/HERS	HIMSELF/HERSELF
zie	zim	zir	zis	zieself
sie	sie	hir	hirs	hirself
ey	em	eir	eirs	eirself
ve	ver	vis	vers	verself
tey	ter	tem	ters	terself
e	em	eir	eirs	emself

Didn't say they were names. My point has always been that it's not as confusing as you make it out to be, this is all just an excuse for you to not give a shit about queer people. You're failing here isn't necessarily linguistic, it's moral and ethical.