Another thread about sexism in video games.

[Hawki]

The first Spyro has no females in it at all.

True, but considering the whole series? It's still male dominated, but with Cynder, plus female supporting characters, it just edges into the 'equal' category for me.

My thinking was more player character for C&C. In sc2 you do have Kerrigan but you also have the Nova missions, I mean its skewed but they are there.

Even with player characters, most of them are male. That includes the GDI commander from Tiberian Dawn (generally agreed to be General Solomon), both McNeil and Slavik from Tiberian Sun, the Nod commander in Tiberium Wars, LEGION, Parker in Tiberian Twilight, Nick "Havoc" Parker in Renegade, and every Allied/Soviet/Empire commander in RA2/3. Sometimes the confirmation is more explicit, but most of the time, the player characters are male regardless.

In StarCraft, we know the magistrate is male, Artanis in the SC1 protoss campaign is male, the executor in Brood War and Enslavers II is implied to be Selendis (so female), and that's it. In SC2, we get two male player characters (Raynor, Artanis), and two female player characters (Kerrigan, Nova). The player characters are more equally spread out in StarCraft, sure, but factoring in the entire series, and not just PC's, I'd still say it's predominantly male.

 

[Catfood220]

I want someone to explain to me how Ivy Valentine puts this outfit on in the morning.

Not wanting to be a dick about this, but I would imagine she would start with the piece of string that could charitably be described as a bra, before the thong and then the boots. Then I would think she would spend a fair bit of time making sure that everything is strapped together as tightly as possible. If she was struggling, then I would imagine that she would have someone to help her tie everything up, much like Knights would have had squires to help them with their armour and equipment. I've spent maybe 10 seconds thinking about this.

But yes, it is a ridiculous design and maybe the question should be "how the hell is her movement not restricted by the tight straps?" She should not be able to move very much without clothing and straps pinging off all over the place.

 

[Worgen]

True, but considering the whole series? It's still male dominated, but with Cynder, plus female supporting characters, it just edges into the 'equal' category for me.

Is Cynder a player character in any of the games? I've only played the first 3, none of the offshoots after the original devs stopped making them.

Even with player characters, most of them are male. That includes the GDI commander from Tiberian Dawn (generally agreed to be General Solomon), both McNeil and Slavik from Tiberian Sun, the Nod commander in Tiberium Wars, LEGION, Parker in Tiberian Twilight, Nick "Havoc" Parker in Renegade, and every Allied/Soviet/Empire commander in RA2/3. Sometimes the confirmation is more explicit, but most of the time, the player characters are male regardless.

Except those aren't really player characters, the player is the Commander and the commander never has a gender so it could be either. They might be point of view for some parts, but they talk to the camera and thus the player behind it directly. I suppose Renegade does directly have a player character and the commander characters in multi are mostly male, but the framing device is still them talking directly to a player through their computer. Maybe not in 3 since I don't remember that plot anymore.

In StarCraft, we know the magistrate is male, Artanis in the SC1 protoss campaign is male, the executor in Brood War and Enslavers II is implied to be Selendis (so female), and that's it. In SC2, we get two male player characters (Raynor, Artanis), and two female player characters (Kerrigan, Nova). The player characters are more equally spread out in StarCraft, sure, but factoring in the entire series, and not just PC's, I'd still say it's predominantly male.

SC 1 happened the way all blizzard things happen, trying to copy games workshop and thus having no females of the alien or fantasy race since games workshop tends to avoid females also for the more not human races. They aren't the only ones guilty of this, just some of the most noticeable.

 

[Worgen]

But yes, it is a ridiculous design and maybe the question should be "how the hell is her movement not restricted by the tight straps?" She should not be able to move very much without clothing and straps pinging off all over the place.

A better question is how much glue did she have to put on her tits to stop them from constantly flopping out of that top and thus making the game adult rated.

 

[CriticalGaming]

A better question is how much glue did she have to put on her tits to stop them from constantly flopping out of that top and thus making the game adult rated.

Joke's on you. Her breasts are actually filled with sand, making them heavy and unmoving!

 

[Catfood220]

I never really got that one. I hear detractors often say that as well as this guy but she always struck me as perfectly fine. Cute even.

The thing I love about Aloy is that she is not a sexualised character, she could be a big busted blonde airhead but she actually looks like a normal person, it actually made me connect with her more and her fight against the machines than if she had more commonly sexy game protagonist.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

A better question is how much glue did she have to put on her tits to stop them from constantly flopping out of that top and thus making the game adult rated.

Due to her half-undead nature, her nipples are rock hard at all times, helping keep her bra in place

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I thought I might share the first time I really started to think about the crappy portrayal of women in computer games. The year is 2003, and the game is Unreal 2: The Awakening. So, you're some sort of galactic commando/policeman with their own ship to scoot around dealing with miscreants, and because reasons you have on board the greatest military mind in the human race, who decided to pack up and abscond from their job as genius in residence at high command. And let's take a look at that person...

View attachment 5198

Are you fucking kidding me?

Three guesses as to how far down that tattoo goes, and the first two don't count.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Gotta love Twitter's trending tab though. For every complaint about this article, there's at least one pic of cartoon hardcore pornography. Competent stuff.

The porn, I mean. The complaints are typically just small lists of mostly identical characters. Samus was on enough of them to be a trending topic on her own.

EDIT: In fairness, most of the Twitter tag is cute and/or badass fanarts of Samus, outnumbering the porn and inane complaints about the article by at least an order of magnitude

 

[Hawki]

Is Cynder a player character in any of the games?

In Dawn of the Dragon.

Except those aren't really player characters, the player is the Commander and the commander never has a gender so it could be either. They might be point of view for some parts, but they talk to the camera and thus the player behind it directly. I suppose Renegade does directly have a player character and the commander characters in multi are mostly male, but the framing device is still them talking directly to a player through their computer. Maybe not in 3 since I don't remember that plot anymore.

Except many of the commanders do have genders. Again, the ones that are confirmed:

-Tiberian Dawn (GDI commander is James Solomon)
-Renegade (Nick "Havoc" Parker)
-Tiberian Sun (McNeil and Slavik)
-Tiberium Wars (Nod commander is confirmed male, scrin commander may also be male per the moniker of foreMAN)
-Kane's Wrath (LEGION)
-Tiberian Twilight (you take control of Parker)
-Red Alert 2/3 (every commander is almost certainly male given their interactions with female characters)

RA1 commanders are almost certainly male given the time period.

That's not every commander in the series, but I can't think of any female player characters.

SC 1 happened the way all blizzard things happen, trying to copy games workshop and thus having no females of the alien or fantasy race since games workshop tends to avoid females also for the more not human races. They aren't the only ones guilty of this, just some of the most noticeable.

That's really stretching though. Whatever similarities you can cite between Blizzard's and GW's IPs, the male/female thing is tangental.

Besides, while there's far more male protoss than female protoss in SC1, female protoss still existed even back then. And since the protoss are most frequently compared with the eldar, the eldar aren't exactly lacking in female characters, at least compared to the other factions bar the Sisters of Battle.

 

[BrawlMan]

I want someone to explain to me how Ivy Valentine puts this outfit on in the morning.

Answer: Nobody thought that far. "Tits and ass" and "mommy dominatrix" were the extent of her design philsophy, meant to appeal to the "pocket-mining demographic".

Check out Eva from Oneechanbara Origin. Absurd fashion sense right there!

And these pics are of the first main protag in the game.





All of that screams battle ready when fighting zombies or other monsters. Yet, it's still better than Highschool of the Dead.

​

 

[Worgen]

Except many of the commanders do have genders. Again, the ones that are confirmed:

-Tiberian Dawn (GDI commander is James Solomon)
-Renegade (Nick "Havoc" Parker)
-Tiberian Sun (McNeil and Slavik)
-Tiberium Wars (Nod commander is confirmed male, scrin commander may also be male per the moniker of foreMAN)
-Kane's Wrath (LEGION)
-Tiberian Twilight (you take control of Parker)
-Red Alert 2/3 (every commander is almost certainly male given their interactions with female characters)

RA1 commanders are almost certainly male given the time period.

That's not every commander in the series, but I can't think of any female player characters.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that Sun had an actual named commander. But, I still don't remember Dawn having one at all, just the game referring to the player as commander and the hook being you controlling everything through your pc or tv or something.

That's really stretching though. Whatever similarities you can cite between Blizzard's and GW's IPs, the male/female thing is tangental.

Besides, while there's far more male protoss than female protoss in SC1, female protoss still existed even back then. And since the protoss are most frequently compared with the eldar, the eldar aren't exactly lacking in female characters, at least compared to the other factions bar the Sisters of Battle.

Not really, I mean take the orks, initially they had normal genders, but GW kept not releasing female models and kept coming up with reasons there weren't any and finally made them sentient fungus. Blizzard had similar issues with showing female orks (Aside from an almost naked half-human ork in the manual, although that might have been warcraft 2) Same with trolls in warcraft 2 and tauren in warcraft 3, only dudes. Wasn't till wow till they finally figured out other genders. It generally seems like for the "less attractive races" females are the afterthought since males can be buff and monstrous, but ladies always need to be sexy in a standard way.

 

[Hawki]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that Sun had an actual named commander. But, I still don't remember Dawn having one at all, just the game referring to the player as commander and the hook being you controlling everything through your pc or tv or something.

It's generally agreed in the fandom that the GDI commander in Tiberian Dawn is James Solomon from Tiberian Sun.

Not really, I mean take the orks, initially they had normal genders, but GW kept not releasing female models and kept coming up with reasons there weren't any and finally made them sentient fungus. Blizzard had similar issues with showing female orks (Aside from an almost naked half-human ork in the manual, although that might have been warcraft 2) Same with trolls in warcraft 2 and tauren in warcraft 3, only dudes. Wasn't till wow till they finally figured out other genders. It generally seems like for the "less attractive races" females are the afterthought since males can be buff and monstrous, but ladies always need to be sexy in a standard way.

You're right, but I think this is a pretty universal phenomenon. In 'brutish' or 'evil' races, females tend to be rare. There isn't a single female orc in Lord of the Rings for instance. Or to segway a bit, in Halo, we don't see a single female Covenant member. At all. In some cases, we haven't seen a single female character ever for some species.

To be clear, I actually really like the idea of fungus orcs/orks. On the other hand, I'm not complaining really, but even when you cast aside biological reasons for lack of females (e.g. orcs/orks) or cultural ones (e.g. dwarfs/Space Marines), there tends to be a lack of them in GW's properties. There's no female necrons for instance, even though I assume the necrotyr had to reproduce somehow. Or the tau...I think there's one named female tau in the entire series? Maybe?

 

[Casual Shinji]

The thing I love about Aloy is that she is not a sexualised character, she could be a big busted blonde airhead but she actually looks like a normal person, it actually made me connect with her more and her fight against the machines than if she had more commonly sexy game protagonist.

Well, there's that Carja outfit...

Spoiler

But then I'm a sucker for bare midrifts.

I mean, I'm definitely glad we seem to have moved past the '07/'09 era of female videogame characters, but I hope we can equally move past the current trend of female characters in AAA games where 'strength' is mainly defined by how they can totally kick everyone's ass and they want you to know it. I can't help but feel like it comes across a little insecure from the writers (who will usually be men) to just give them macho dickhead energy. Aloy has this a bit too, along with being too serious, no room for some pratt falls. Though she is a farcry from Ellie in TLoU2 who has just been turned into the most obnoxious and boring tough girl who seriously doesn't like pink at all you guys. Not that there's anything essentially wrong with someone like that, but how it's presented in the game it just bleeds 'not like other girls'.

I want more Kat girls in AAA games, as in Kat from Gravity Rush; girly girls who like more typically girly things, and are also flying around doing superhero shit. Give me the girly badass. Not so much the sexy girl, but the girl/woman who has interests that don't necessarily speak to the male demographic.

 

[BrawlMan]

I want more Kat girls in AAA games, as in Kat from Gravity Rush; girly girls who like more typically girly things, and are also flying around doing superhero shit. Give me the girly badass. Not so much the sexy girl, but the girl/woman who has interests that don't necessarily speak to the male demographic.

Same here. I would certainly take more Kats, Alloys, Aya Breas, or even Juilet Starlings over Ellie and reboot version of Lara Croft. Well, nearly anything over Lara Croft in general; including the classic version.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Honestly, if you combine Jojo Siwa's aesthetic with a female Japanese counter culture aesthetic, you'd probably get something really cool while also having something that chuds couldn't stand.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Will read the thread after this but first I had to ask; did we really need to bring up this topic again? Haven't we spent enough time running in circles around this issue?

 

[BrawlMan]

Will read the thread after this but first I had to ask; did we really need to bring up this topic again? Haven't we spent enough time running in circles around this issue?

I would say the same, but there are certain persons on this thread that don't want to learn nor get it. You seem to be forgetting that this is a guy that makes theads like this every month or two, and expects different results. The same guy that claims that there is no sexism in the industry, or claims that it's not that bad. The same for racism in the industry too. And the only reason he brought this up is just to stick it to an "sjw", and a person that is an outsider to gaming. Critical is afraid of the truth and is blinded by nostalgia. He's just going to do the same thing again.

With all that said, I'm always willing and hearing to listen about ways the industry can be improved and see those results. Because the industry and whole infrastructure definitely needs it. Especially on the AAA end.

 

[Worgen]

You're right, but I think this is a pretty universal phenomenon. In 'brutish' or 'evil' races, females tend to be rare. There isn't a single female orc in Lord of the Rings for instance. Or to segway a bit, in Halo, we don't see a single female Covenant member. At all. In some cases, we haven't seen a single female character ever for some species.

To be clear, I actually really like the idea of fungus orcs/orks. On the other hand, I'm not complaining really, but even when you cast aside biological reasons for lack of females (e.g. orcs/orks) or cultural ones (e.g. dwarfs/Space Marines), there tends to be a lack of them in GW's properties. There's no female necrons for instance, even though I assume the necrotyr had to reproduce somehow. Or the tau...I think there's one named female tau in the entire series? Maybe?

I think its more that they just go by the wayside till the "need" is forced, like from a game where players can character customize and they want players to have more options. Like they aren't seen as necessary to put the thought and effort into. I think the Guild Wars series is a great example, in GW the charr fire legion were all male in GW2 they actually made that a plot point and had the fire legion be super misogynistic to the point of making females just breeding slaves and their liberation helped bring it down. Behind the scenes the devs had a lot of discussions over what female charr would look like, even them just being kinda anime cat girls was floated till we got more bestial instead of monstrous looking (compared to males)

I think we do see female covenant, aren't the skirmisher jackals female? I think some of the lines in Infinite said they were and there was a one or two named ones that you take out that are. But yeah, none besides that.

Do necrons really have genders? They came out after I stopped paying much attention to the lore so I don't know what their deal is, plus I think their lore got changed a lot... so at this point I really don't know what their deal is. Also, are the fire warriors of the tau supposed to be integrated, cause technically they might have females and we just wouldn't know unless gw put out big boob models with mid rift armor, which seems to be the direction that players who customize female tau squads seem to be going. That's the thing about "realistic" armor and females, if the armor is actually realistic then its kinda hard to tell the difference between genders.

 

[Thaluikhain]

There's no female necrons for instance, even though I assume the necrotyr had to reproduce somehow. Or the tau...I think there's one named female tau in the entire series? Maybe?

Assuming necrontyr had males and females, they are now undead robots inspired by the Terminator and or Cybermen, so you'd probably not notice nowdays.

There's female Tau that pop up every now and then, though I don't think it's been said if female Tau look different to male ones. IIRC, male and female kroot look the same to people who aren't kroot.