Another thread about sexism in video games.

[Agema]

Half of those instances is people just being resistant to change and wanting things to be how they were, as opposed to being particularly attached to the type of content itself.

Oh, the poor darlings.

The other half is people rightfully reacting to devs trying to "appeal to a broader audience" by compromising what they feel is a central element of a franchise. Such an attitude is always wrong, it was wrong when it caused em to westernize Jrpgs in the 2010s, with the infamous star ocean 4's usa version cutting out the gorgeous handdrawn artwork for the chars in menus and replacing it with the ingame models, and it's wrong in this way too.

If they want to broaden their appeal, you can be unhappy and you can say so, but really you're just going to have to deal with it. Why should they toil away for a small fanbase when they've got mortgages to pay and kids to feed, or even just want another Ferrarri to add to their collection? They aren't your slaves. And besides, creators create - few want to be stuck doing the same stuff year after year. They grow, experience, develop, innovate.

The world moves on. Preserving things in aspic is just stagnation. Either move with progress, or become like an aged grumpster waving his walking stick at newfangled stuff and damn kids, in addled confusion. Or as the saying goes, "a reed that doesn't bend in the wind, breaks".

 

[McElroy]

Since I've gone through this topic with you in other threads before I won't do it again. However I've gotta say your comments illustrate your views very well, which is why I find myself replying to you often.

I mean, you can be traumatised by really bad experiences, and I'd have a lot more leeway with that.

With women sure, but giving men leeway for bad experiences gets you scolded for misogyny or at the very least automatically linked to some sort of anti-woman space/community/circlejerk.

I mean, you can have a happy life and also just enjoy some random fantasy. This idea that if you enjoy this thing you somehow never matured is silly.

Yeah it's silly. The nerd stereotypes don't come from nowhere, but it's silly to think 1+1 equals a neckbearded manchild. My comment pushed back against there being struggles to learn that real pretty women have real lives. It's just that when you have a dude whose sources of pleasure and happiness in life have never had much to do with offline interactions with women, it won't take much to realize that his life and these "real" lives are at odds. At that point the dude is at a crossroads: one path is a gauntlet towards becoming - as Gyrobot put it - a former addict avoiding relapse, and the other the path of least resistance: become someone who can't think further than "what's the harm if I do what I like?"

It'd be much better to avoid it altogether, be healthy and functional at all ages. At the point of the imaginary crossroads a lot of damage has been done already. Don't let your kids stare at screens so much. And no anime series at all. It should all be deleted.

 

[Worgen]

It'd be much better to avoid it altogether, be healthy and functional at all ages. At the point of the imaginary crossroads a lot of damage has been done already. Don't let your kids stare at screens so much. And no anime series at all. It should all be deleted.

That seems lacking in conviction. If you really want to control it then maybe there is some part of the penis we can remove to prevent boys from touching themselves, that would reduce instances of this so much. You should have someone look into it, I'll bet at least 50% of the american population would be totally down with this type of genital mutilation to prevent boys from engaging in this behavior.

 

[Agema]

With women sure, but giving men leeway for bad experiences gets you scolded for misogyny or at the very least automatically linked to some sort of anti-woman space/community/circlejerk.

Speak for yourself. I have no wish to be part of a deranged cult of masculinity that disregards male trauma under a misguided notion men aren't allowed to have problems.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Well now that we've conclusively proven that "censorship" isn't a thing and their aren't legions of people waiting in the wings to demonize video games, even the ones with incest and sex slavery, what exactly is the point of this thread?

Some people remain convinced that "those SJWs" want to take away everything sexy, so that the feminists can execute their master plan: Cut off the balls of all men and make us hold their purses while they shop.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

. .
That's what I'm saying, people judge you for not being "pure" when in fact they should celebrate your choice to be moral despite your lack of purity. This is adam and eve fruit of the knowledge of evil shit lol. We're not going back to the garden of eden, we're humans now.

That's their problem, not yours. Since we're solely focusing on what society thinks, I'm going to duck out of this one.

Look... people making fun of others for being weird or miserable are not good people, no matter what cause they believe in. Do not engage with them. You're not hurting anyone by your claim, this topic has been done to death, and you're not going to change anyone's mind, especially when emotions are involved.

The difference is there's infinite reincarnations and everyone has a hope of eventually getting to the highest plane of existence so people are not as condemned as they are seen as works in progress. The good folk are seen as having just gone through more lives so they're further along this path, so the way you compare with others differs from a setting where every soul was put on the planet at the time of birth and it's all your responsibility from then on.

If you fall into the Hell realm you'll be stuck there for perhaps longer than the lifetime of the universe. We're getting into small differences. I'm pointing out your description of Japan and Christian morality are off. When you said Christians imagine humans without desires being possible, that's not true. Nobody, not you, me, or saints are without temptation. Not even Jesus when he was tempted by Satan. Neither was the Buddha when he was tempted by Mara.

 

[Brokencontroller]

Half of those instances is people just being resistant to change and wanting things to be how they were, as opposed to being particularly attached to the type of content itself.

World of Warcraft is removing all "boobie" armor and even changed paintings within a single dungeon of the game that portrayed a woman with cleavage into a bowl of fruit.

There has to be some line of "oh this is just sexist fantasy" and "this is what women look like".

It isnt sexism to make your characters attractive right? Because i think there are people too willing to label a character as sexist just because the character is attarctive, lara croft for example. Old lara wore a green tank top and shorts, something women would wear casually just about anywhere (different colors maybe). But still people use her as some sort of call out and it doesnt make sense.

Even if you wanted to argue the scenes were she wears a tight wetsuit or something in the later games, being showcased as sexy is not the same thing as sexism or even being shown off as a sexy object. Otherwise bikinis must therefore be sexist and anywoman who dares wear such a thing should be ridiculed with shame.

 

[Brokencontroller]

Some people remain convinced that "those SJWs" want to take away everything sexy, so that the feminists can execute their master plan: Cut off the balls of all men and make us hold their purses while they shop.

I dont think it is men they want to hurt. I think it is other women. They want women to feel bad about being attractive, and they damn sure dont want women to dress or feel sexy in any way.

But more than that i think they want to feed off the power that they have over companies. Remember when Carl's Jr used to have those models in bikinis eatting big fucking cheeseburgers? Cant do anything like that anymore. Hell Victoria's Secret, a sexy lingerie company, has had to reduced the sex appeal of their advertising.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

But more than that i think they want to feed off the power that they have over companies. Remember when Carl's Jr used to have those models in bikinis eatting big fucking cheeseburgers? Cant do anything like that anymore. Hell Victoria's Secret, a sexy lingerie company, has had to reduced the sex appeal of their advertising.

And yes, why should they have power over companies? Why don't companies just cater to you?

 

[Brokencontroller]

And yes, why should they have power over companies? Why don't companies just cater to you?

Well actually i guess it is more accurate to say they control the marketing campaigns. Because VS still sells sexy panties so.

It isnt about the person it is about the audience. VS it trying to showcase how sexy you would look wearing their shit, so they use models that best showcase that. And these feminists/sjws are obviously not the audience so why should their demands matter?

PETA doesnt want McDonalds selling meat, you think McDonald's is ever going to cave to that pressure? So why should other groups have any influence over how a product they have no interest in have any influence?

 

[Dreiko]

Since I've gone through this topic with you in other threads before I won't do it again. However I've gotta say your comments illustrate your views very well, which is why I find myself replying to you often.

With women sure, but giving men leeway for bad experiences gets you scolded for misogyny or at the very least automatically linked to some sort of anti-woman space/community/circlejerk.

Yeah it's silly. The nerd stereotypes don't come from nowhere, but it's silly to think 1+1 equals a neckbearded manchild. My comment pushed back against there being struggles to learn that real pretty women have real lives. It's just that when you have a dude whose sources of pleasure and happiness in life have never had much to do with offline interactions with women, it won't take much to realize that his life and these "real" lives are at odds. At that point the dude is at a crossroads: one path is a gauntlet towards becoming - as Gyrobot put it - a former addict avoiding relapse, and the other the path of least resistance: become someone who can't think further than "what's the harm if I do what I like?"

It'd be much better to avoid it altogether, be healthy and functional at all ages. At the point of the imaginary crossroads a lot of damage has been done already. Don't let your kids stare at screens so much. And no anime series at all. It should all be deleted.

I dunno, I think all of those paths have the same thing wrong with them. They all put things up on a pedestal too much. I guess some people are just "natural alcoholics" or something so when at that stage they can't just have "a" drink and they will keep drinking until they get sick. I just think you can be a functioning member of society with anime and everything else too as parts of your life if you enjoy em and you just don't have to be crazy about it.

You don't have to make your relation to women or theirs with you into a part of your identity. That, to me, is the greatest critique of incels, and their biggest irony. It's an identity that supposedly hates women due to being undateable, yet they base their entire identity upon how they are doing in relation to women. At the end of the day you derive validation out of women, which is the exact same thing the white knight SJWs do.


Validation should be generated internally, not from outside sources, cause then you're at their mercy, and they get to control your life more than they ought to. You can just treat it like a natural component of your life that you wanna mingle with women in the same way you wanna have a drink and grab a bite and sleep and so on, you don't need to upend your life and turn it upside down or alter how you view yourself based on this any more than you would do so based on a really tasty pizza or something.


Basically there's no crossroads, it's all an open field, and you're putting down the roads cause you're limiting your vision of what is possible artificially.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

World of Warcraft is removing all "boobie" armor and even changed paintings within a single dungeon of the game that portrayed a woman with cleavage into a bowl of fruit.

There has to be some line of "oh this is just sexist fantasy" and "this is what women look like".

1) In WoW, that silly booby armor was only booby armor on the female models, while being full blown robes or plate mail on the male models, that was what made it sexist. Meanwhile, an entire early game faction of Final Fantasy 14, the Yellowjackets, goes tits out all day everyday regardless of gender and has no such complaints. Everybody gets the stupid armor, or the cool armor, or the bunny suit

2) It's a hilariously pathetic attempt to cover up Activision Blizzard's many and ongoing sexual discrimination and harassment lawsuits, not a sudden earnest attempt at gender equality, and it's sad that people don't see that.

 

[Brokencontroller]

1) In WoW, that silly booby armor was only booby armor on the female models, while being full blown robes or plate mail on the male models, that was what made it sexist. Meanwhile, an entire early game faction of Final Fantasy 14, the Yellowjackets, goes tits out all day everyday regardless of gender and has no such complaints. Everybody gets the stupid armor, or the cool armor, or the bunny suit

All the more reason why FF14 is awesome

2) It's a hilariously pathetic attempt to cover up Activision Blizzard's many and ongoing sexual discrimination and harassment lawsuits, not a sudden earnest attempt at gender equality, and it's sad that people don't see that.

I mean yeah, I agree. It's a knee jerk reaction to try and cover up real people's plights within the studio. The players of WoW weren't the problem, the employees of the company were the problem. This is also why they removed emotes and several of the jokes on various characters. It makes no sense. What does the shit in game have to do with you molesting your co-workers? Did WoW somehow make you so horny you couldn't stop yourself from chugging breast milk and groping people?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I mean yeah, I agree. It's a knee jerk reaction to try and cover up real people's plights within the studio. The players of WoW weren't the problem, the employees of the company were the problem. This is also why they removed emotes and several of the jokes on various characters. It makes no sense. What does the shit in game have to do with you molesting your co-workers? Did WoW somehow make you so horny you couldn't stop yourself from chugging breast milk and groping people?

It's so people will bring up the stupid shallow stuff all the time instead of engaging with the core heinous problem.

Think "McDonalds Hot Coffee incident". Every joke about "oh no, coffee hot" is one less examination of hideous gential scarring causing a decade of medical care caused by a company selling liquids at a temperature that causes, well, hideous tissue scarring against the advice of their lawyers.

 

[Worgen]

1) In WoW, that silly booby armor was only booby armor on the female models, while being full blown robes or plate mail on the male models, that was what made it sexist. Meanwhile, an entire early game faction of Final Fantasy 14, the Yellowjackets, goes tits out all day everyday regardless of gender and has no such complaints. Everybody gets the stupid armor, or the cool armor, or the bunny suit

2) It's a hilariously pathetic attempt to cover up Activision Blizzard's many and ongoing sexual discrimination and harassment lawsuits, not a sudden earnest attempt at gender equality, and it's sad that people don't see that.

The problem with booby armor is that its single gender. If both sexes have ridiculous armor then its less an issue since everyone can be naked or not. Goodluck if you want to player a cross dressing guy in an mmo, almost none of those support anything like that. I tried making my pawn in Dragons Dogma a twink in a dress and the best I could do was putting him in a long robe and making him as feminine as possible. Oddly enough I did get messages about people being surprised by his deeper then expected voice so maybe it did work. Weren't many high pitched male voices to choose from.

It's so people will bring up the stupid shallow stuff all the time instead of engaging with the core heinous problem.

Think "McDonalds Hot Coffee incident". Every joke about "oh no, coffee hot" is one less examination of hideous gential scarring causing a decade of medical care caused by a company selling liquids at a temperature that causes, well, hideous tissue scarring against the advice of their lawyers.

Don't forget that this wasn't even the first time something like this happened, there had been a lot of instances of people getting horribly burned by the high temp they kept their coffee at and that is partially why the amount was as high as it was, to send a message since Mc Donald's didn't seem to be willing to change at all without one.

 

[Gergar12]

Oh, the poor darlings.



If they want to broaden their appeal, you can be unhappy and you can say so, but really you're just going to have to deal with it. Why should they toil away for a small fanbase when they've got mortgages to pay and kids to feed, or even just want another Ferrarri to add to their collection? They aren't your slaves. And besides, creators create - few want to be stuck doing the same stuff year after year. They grow, experience, develop, innovate.

The world moves on. Preserving things in aspic is just stagnation. Either move with progress, or become like an aged grumpster waving his walking stick at newfangled stuff and damn kids, in addled confusion. Or as the saying goes, "a reed that doesn't bend in the wind, breaks".

Or you could buy from countries that are politically incorrect and get games from their devs.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But more than that i think they want to feed off the power that they have over companies. Remember when Carl's Jr used to have those models in bikinis eatting big fucking cheeseburgers? Cant do anything like that anymore. Hell Victoria's Secret, a sexy lingerie company, has had to reduced the sex appeal of their advertising.

...because of falling sales. If sexy burgers and old-school lingerie models still brought in the dollars, you would absolutely be seeing those advertisements. Hell, *everybody* tried "sexy burger" back in the day, it was just Carl's Jr. that was the first to fall completely flat in the "is this advertising the burger or the girl" way

 

[Gordon_4]

World of Warcraft is removing all "boobie" armor

No they aren't. The old plate and chainmail bikini armours are still there. I know, because I see them on a daily basis because I play the game. What has happened, since Wrath of the Lich King in fact, is that all the armours are designed around the theme of expansion pack. So in Wrath you got lots of this fur lined, brown and tan - I seriously cannot stress just how fucking SHIT the overall look and feel of everything in Wrath was outside of a few raid armours - all covering stuff because Northrend was FUCKING COLD.

Cataclysm didn't really have much of a theme so most of its stuff was utterly forgettable; then Mists of Pandaria leaned hard into medieval/Middle Kingdom aesthetic from China with a few bits and bobs from other Asian cultures. Warlords of Draenor was a bevy of brutalist industrial warlords on Horde side, and the Crystal Spires and Togas look of the Draenei. Legion was all about the demons - and what a coinkydink, it introduced Demon Hunters as a class - so skimpy leather was the order of the day. Bra's and waist...belts for the ladies and bold as brass bare chests for the men. Battle for Azeroth had two themes running concurrently: Aztecs and Pirates for Zandalar and Kul Tiras zones, and old school Orcs vs Humans for the warfronts. Shadowlands theme is an unholy mixture of Fantasy Ancient Greece, Doom by way of a Heavy Metal roadshow, A Midsummer Night's Dream and Bram Stoker's Dracula for its questing areas and MAXIMUM EDGELORD for the Maw and Korthia. And thus, all the gear design reflects that.

 

[Schadrach]

Fuck's sake, Lara Croft had a Playboy spread.

So did Marge Simpson. I don't think that means as much as you think it means.

 

[CriticalGaming]

So did Marge Simpson. I don't think that means as much as you think it means.

Lightning from FF13 also had like a fashion model thing...