The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)

[Brokencontroller]

What the fuck is with the game? Why is every boss fucking bullshit? Why do i keep coming back everytime i say, "fuck this fucking cheating ass bullshit?"

Seriously i think they are fucking jerks for the obvious input reading these enemies have. They went for ball busting difficulty because they expect players to already be good at these games.

Im curious to see how someone playing Elden Ring as their first Souls game deals with it. Because holy shit this is rough.

 

[Casual Shinji]

He just dropped in to throw his obligatory jab at the latest FROM game lol.

Too bad I beat 'm to the punch!

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I thought the previous Souls games had good enough exploration that never felt "time waste-y". Very few devs can do open world design well IMO. I don't feel like scattering about Souls content across a big world that is filled with standard Souls mobs is good open world design. That's what I get from people's impressions of the game. I'm sure the game has good content to find but the ratio of looking for it and playing it isn't going to be a good ratio plus the open world being filled with Souls mobs would only increase the annoyance.

There are more build varieties than ever, and the main point of the open world is exploration, as this post makes a case for

Spoiler

If people want to just beeline to all the best stuff for constant dopamine hits then yeah, it’ll be annoying doing the in between stuff.

Even wonder why almost none of our peer countries ever put in place several policies the US put in? Even wonder why the WHO has been completely against a few policies the US has employed? Because most of the world's experts don't agree with the "research" and the "facts" conducted by the US.

America is neither united or responsible enough for other countries’s approaches, so we had to rely more on vaccines. Even then hospitals have been more strained than they should’ve been. It just goes to show how screwed we’d be if there was ever a more lethal virus if we could barely handle this one functionally.

Am I not allowed to dislike a game? I'm sorry that From never fixed any of the core issues I had with the 1st Souls game I ever played, like you want me to fight mobs of enemies but force me to use an antiquated lock-on system 2 generations later when it was antiquated 2 generations ago? You have big enemy boss fights but you can't make them more dynamic and interesting like Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter, or Horizon? Most devs suck at making open world games and I don't see how spacing out Souls content across a big world is improving the game. And filling that world with more standard enemy mobs is a good thing when combat was never something Souls has excelled at to begin with? What new ways can you approach combat scenarios (outside of mounted combat)? The Souls games were already open enough to allow for all the possible combat approaches in the game.

The lock-on fits the style of movement mechanics with needing to be constantly aware of the environment. Souls has never been an arena fighter and the buttons those kinds of games use for lock-on are already dedicated to more vital functions. It’s not that hard to hit R3 and flick the stick around to different targets, or simply not engage a whole mob if it’s going to be an issue. There are other ways around it.

I’ve seen enough youtube videos of people spamming attacks in MHW to realize I wouldn’t be interested in it personally. The kind of dynamic combat I’d like to see in games soon isn’t there. It just looks slow and cumbersome, while being too focused on grinding attack ratings. Has anyone ever beat the game without leveling up, or is it even possible? Many of the complaints I’ve read were answered by something like, Well, yeah but it doesn’t really get good until the endgame content. Uh, so what the hell is the point of the whole game up until that point?

Bottom line is to each their own, because no matter how many times a different viewpoint or reasoning is presented it’s ultimately a grand exercise in futility.

 

[Elijin]

It took a bit over 20 hours but I finally found the item to invade other worlds. So I think I know why there aren't a lot invasions now since I can see no way to collect this thing easily before about ten hours of play and knowing exactly where it is and having to rush through a bunch of shit. Its more or less on the direct story path, but it requires a bit of finding even then, and its past Rune 1 - and I think its tied to gaining Rune 1 so I don't even know if the shortcut around Fuck Mountain would get you there any sooner. I've seen one invasion while helping a dude against Rune 1 boss, and the player just watched the invader run at us before turning around and challenging the boss which booted them instantly.



Hopefully you'll find some options you like - thus far I've actually been plesantly surpriesd by how useable most weapons I've found are. Stat related issues aside (why I need INT to use a bleed dagger I'll never know), the movesets and attack speeds of different weapons vary significantly, and there are only a few weapons I've found that I would consider to be totally useless. I even actually killed a boss with the cat-claws item that's usually a joke because its a fast bleed weapon and that's just what the doctor ordered in the specific situation.

Only major complaint I have right now is that the FP requirements for the ash summons gets a little steep, and as a STR/DEX guy its hard to give up those levels. It feels a little unbalanced as from what I've seen magic is fairly powerful in Elden Ring and that high FP stat casters have means they have have big mean Ash summons too while non-FP builds either lose access to some of the good ones or sacrifice character levels to get them. I really want to use a couple of these but I've got 70 or so FP, they cost 100, and you get 3 or 4 FP per level. That's an investment.

You can't invade a solo player in ER. They can summon you as a duelist, or use a taunt item to open themselves to invasion. But standard invasions only hit co-op sessions. No more ruining solo players experience. Also since invasions are typically 3v1 against the invader, lots of crying about how hard it is to ruin someone's day. 10/10, fuck em.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

@Dalisclock or anyone else, these QoL tips should be particularly helpful when first setting out -

 

[Dalisclock]

You can't invade a solo player in ER. They can summon you as a duelist, or use a taunt item to open themselves to invasion. But standard invasions only hit co-op sessions. No more ruining solo players experience. Also since invasions are typically 3v1 against the invader, lots of crying about how hard it is to ruin someone's day. 10/10, fuck em.

I've been enjoying reading Invader threads on reddit about how FROM isn't being fair to them by matching Invaders againest Co-Op teams by default. So much salt flowing.

My favorites are the ones who seem to hold the following two positions.
1.) Invasions are part of the game by design so Invading is playing the game as intended and everyone else needs to just deal with it or play offline.
2.) Invasions are no fun because the current iteration of the Invasion in DS3 and ER automatically favors the invaded rather then the invader and FROM is being mean to them.

WHen people bring up how most people don't like being invaded, they refer to point 1, somehow not realizing that the counterpoint is that FROM also made invasions favored to the invader for a reason. So FROM is either totally right or wrong depending on he moment.

Even better is the "If you don't like to get invaded, Git Gud" but then get mad if told "If you don't like fighting 3 vs. 1 in favor of the invaded, Git Gud". Basically it sounds like the crying of a bully who is mad they can't find easily overcome victims because everyone travels in groups to avoid such bullying

 

[EvilRoy]

You can't invade a solo player in ER. They can summon you as a duelist, or use a taunt item to open themselves to invasion. But standard invasions only hit co-op sessions. No more ruining solo players experience. Also since invasions are typically 3v1 against the invader, lots of crying about how hard it is to ruin someone's day. 10/10, fuck em.

Yup, I knew about that, but what surprised me was how much time I've spent in co-op vs how many invasions I've seen. Right now I'm helping people to farm souls because other forms of farming has been really dull for me, and in spite of a couple hours spent in coop with another person I really only saw the one invasion. I assume that the incidence will go up past where you find the invasion item on the world map, but I can't say for sure yet.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I've been enjoying reading Invader threads on reddit about how FROM isn't being fair to them by matching Invaders againest Co-Op teams by default. So much salt flowing.

My favorites are the ones who seem to hold the following two positions.
1.) Invasions are part of the game by design so Invading is playing the game as intended and everyone else needs to just deal with it or play offline.
2.) Invasions are no fun because the current iteration of the Invasion in DS3 and ER automatically favors the invaded rather then the invader and FROM is being mean to them.

WHen people bring up how most people don't like being invaded, they refer to point 1, somehow not realizing that the counterpoint is that FROM also made invasions favored to the invader for a reason. So FROM is either totally right or wrong depending on he moment.

Even better is the "If you don't like to get invaded, Git Gud" but then get mad if told "If you don't like fighting 3 vs. 1 in favor of the invaded, Git Gud". Basically it sounds like the crying of a bully who is mad they can't find easily overcome victims because everyone travels in groups to avoid such bullying

Tell them that they can have their 1v1 invasions back, IF the game also gets an easy mode.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Tell them that they can have their 1v1 invasions back, IF the game also gets an easy mode.

It sounds like that would be the new easy mode now, so basically yeah they could stick that in their pipe.

 

[Dalisclock]

Tell them that they can have their 1v1 invasions back, IF the game also gets an easy mode.

Or tell them to go back to Dark Souls 1 and 2(I suspect 2 is their favorite one since yo can be invaded at any time there) if they're that mad about the new invasion rules.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

There are more build varieties than ever, and the main point of the open world is exploration, as this post makes a case for

Spoiler

If people want to just beeline to all the best stuff for constant dopamine hits then yeah, it’ll be annoying doing the in between stuff.

I never found builds interesting in Souls. Choosing a big ass strength weapon and nimble dex weapon is basically the same thing, you just block or dodge after enemy attack and you say hit twice with a big ass weapon in the window to hit the boss or hit like 4 or 5 quick times with the nimble weapon both doing probably the same damage in the end so what's the actual build difference. For example, the Kirk Hammer in Bloodborne is an example of the game being exactly as I just described when you use the short sword vs the hammer, you can get 2-3 more sword hits in the same window vs 1 or 2 hammer hits in. Bloodborne kinda fixed that by allowing you to straight-up knock enemies down with heavier attacks but kinda made that pointless by giving enemies invincibility frames when getting up (but not the player who could get hit when getting up) so it was just ended up being visual flair vs having a combat function to it. Shielding is really simple and basic and not really much fun and at least in DS1, you could shield just fine with a character you put nothing into shielding stats. Magic is really boring too, you just lock-on and send out your spells, it's not very engaging gameplay. Bloodborne is the best Souls game because From did some "design by subtraction" (ala GMTK video) and removed basically all the stuff that just didn't work well in DS and fixed other things and just honed the core game. Why put a bow in the game if it just breaks every encounter?

I don't care about having constant dopamine hits, I care about how much of my time playing a game is enjoyable. It just seems like ER is going to have more mobs to fight inbetween the quality content which reduces that ratio. I find exploring Shadow of the Colossus very enjoyable and it has really nothing to do or really even find yet it's great fun to explore. ER looks like exploration results in finding some really interesting things (the big 4-legged thing I saw in a video) however having all those mobs all over kinda feels like the JRPG random encounter mechanic that will discourage me from exploring because I don't want to be bothered by constant fighting because that's not the best aspect of a Souls game IMO.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

America is neither united or responsible enough for other countries’s approaches, so we had to rely more on vaccines. Even then hospitals have been more strained than they should’ve been. It just goes to show how screwed we’d be if there was ever a more lethal virus if we could barely handle this one functionally.

I'm just saying other countries never did a few things the US did like forcing kids to wear masks (and outside in some places, that's just plain crazy), closing schools for a year and a half. The WHO even says that kids 5 and under should not wear masks yet kids in daycare do (or did) in the US. Just about every European country has recognized natural immunity in their vaccine passport policies, the US does not. Some countries rolled out the vaccines faster than the US early on (I believe the UK and Israel were 2 that did) as the US stumbled a bit in the 1st few months. Anyway, I don't get how I'm going against expert opinion and science when apparently most of the developed world is going against the science if you consider only US policy to be the "science".

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The lock-on fits the style of movement mechanics with needing to be constantly aware of the environment. Souls has never been an arena fighter and the buttons those kinds of games use for lock-on are already dedicated to more vital functions. It’s not that hard to hit R3 and flick the stick around to different targets, or simply not engage a whole mob if it’s going to be an issue. There are other ways around it.

I’ve seen enough youtube videos of people spamming attacks in MHW to realize I wouldn’t be interested in it personally. The kind of dynamic combat I’d like to see in games soon isn’t there. It just looks slow and cumbersome, while being too focused on grinding attack ratings. Has anyone ever beat the game without leveling up, or is it even possible? Many of the complaints I’ve read were answered by something like, Well, yeah but it doesn’t really get good until the endgame content. Uh, so what the hell is the point of the whole game up until that point?

Bottom line is to each their own, because no matter how many times a different viewpoint or reasoning is presented it’s ultimately a grand exercise in futility.

In like any game made in the last 20 years, I just press the left stick in the direction of the enemy I want to attack, press attack, and my character attacks said enemy. I don't get how making that more complicated is making Souls a better experience in anyway. Yahtzee states the same thing about Souls combat being designed for dueling yet has enemy mobs that aren't designed for dueling. I don't have to lock-on to anything in MHW for example and that shares Souls' combat philosophy in most regards.

You can make characters that break MHW just like you can in most games including Souls. If you base a game off videos of meta builds and top level play of any game, you'll see a lot of the same thing. I don't think anyone would play a Souls game if they watched one of those no-hit runs for example cuz the game doesn't look fun at all from those type of videos. MHW has some of the dynamic combat you'd like as IIRC you want games where you can hit different parts of enemies for different effects and whatnot and MHW does that, I think it could be better implemented and take some aspects from Horizon (basically giving the player more information). Yeah, you won't see that in endgame play because people have min/maxed to extreme levels and they don't need to worry about that stuff anymore. Just playing through MHW normally, you don't need to worry about much grinding especially if you're just using one weapon (the more weapons you use the more hunting you have to do basically to be able to get resources and upgrade them all). It's the endgame that's about grinding and kinda the whole WoW "why do you raid? so I can raid more" aspect. The endgame of MHW is disappointing (at least to me) because you'll have acquired equipment that easily kills most of the monsters too quickly so you only have a small handful of the endgame monsters actually pose decent fights or drop things you want so the game kinda drops from having say 30 monsters to fight to like 5. Everyone has beat the game without leveling because your character doesn't level in MH. It would be like Souls not having levels and only having weapon upgrades basically, which is what the SL1 runs allow for anyway so literally every MHW playthrough is a SL1 run technically.

I really don't get people that like Souls criticizing MH for being cumbersome when what MH does is what they like Souls for in the first place like you just can't interrupt animations (like just about any action game from Bayo to God of War to Batman), which is something Souls players boast about Souls having, MH just focuses more on said aspect and it's less spammy than Souls because you have to think even more about your actions. Yes, you can min/max gear to where you can spam but again that's most every game because most games aren't perfectly balanced and there's almost always some meta builds that break the game.

I've played completely through 2 Souls games and from what Yahtzee said about ER being almost completely a Souls game in mechanics and the game adding an open world and more mobs, 1 thing I generally don't like and 1 thing I for sure don't like, I don't get how I'm knocking it just to knock it. Exploring and finding interesting things does look very appealing to me but all the added mobs all over are very unappealing aspect to me (because combat is not the main aspect I enjoy from the game) that I feel it would cause more dislike than the benefits it provides. I found that DS1 and BB have too much combat, I'd prefer a Souls game with less combat than more combat and it seems like ER has much more combat than both of those games.

 

[Ezekiel]

Just visited this thread to confirm PhoenixMGS is critical of another Souls game. I want a new combat system too. Will probably play the game in a couple of years. Liked FromSoftware's games a lot more before they started obsessing so much with challenging the pros who praised the difficulty before everything.

 

[BrawlMan]

Liked FromSoftware's games a lot more before they started obsessing so much with challenging the pros who praised the difficulty before everything.

Here's an idea: you can still enjoy the games, while ignoring the loud, insecure, chuckle fucks.

There are jack ass DMC fans out there, but their idiocy won't make me quit the series, nor enjoy them any less. I never paid them much mind back then, and even less so nowadays. Not a blip on my radar.

 

[Ezekiel]

Here's an idea: you can still enjoy the games, while ignoring the loud, insecure, chuckle fucks.

There are jack ass DMC fans out there, but their idiocy won't make me quit the series, nor enjoy them any less. I never paid them much mind back then, and even less so nowadays. Not a blip on my radar.

No, I can't enjoy the games as much as I used to, because From went out of their way to please those pros. Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls II, loved them. Dark Souls III, Bloodborne, Sekiro, eh. Tagged that last one with Hide in my Steam library, after quitting on the last boss when it came out and then attempting another playthrough recently. Another reason I can't enjoy them as much is because they're just regurgitating now.

 

[Ezekiel]

Should've made their games in a mental vacuum. Only looked at the sales and not the reviews and talk. Hideo Kojima had the same problem. Why the MGS series became more generic and dumb.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

In like any game made in the last 20 years, I just press the left stick in the direction of the enemy I want to attack, press attack, and my character attacks said enemy.

Same goes for FROM games. Idk why lock-on has somehow ended up being regarded as a necessity of combat. It’s situational like practically any other game; or at least ones that allow high freedom of movement.

I don't get how making that more complicated is making Souls a better experience in anyway. Yahtzee states the same thing about Souls combat being designed for dueling yet has enemy mobs that aren't designed for dueling. I don't have to lock-on to anything in MHW for example and that shares Souls' combat philosophy in most regards.

Again, mobs shouldn’t be an issue for anyone familiar with the games as they are given ways to deal with them, including just running the hell past a lot of them if need be. There are also different attack types for broader range, or ways to bait most enemies one by one, magic, pyromancers, miracles, etc. with larger AoE. Options are there and it’s the player’s fault if they’re ignored.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

You can make characters that break MHW just like you can in most games including Souls. If you base a game off videos of meta builds and top level play of any game, you'll see a lot of the same thing. I don't think anyone would play a Souls game if they watched one of those no-hit runs for example cuz the game doesn't look fun at all from those type of videos. MHW has some of the dynamic combat you'd like as IIRC you want games where you can hit different parts of enemies for different effects and whatnot and MHW does that, I think it could be better implemented and take some aspects from Horizon (basically giving the player more information). Yeah, you won't see that in endgame play because people have min/maxed to extreme levels and they don't need to worry about that stuff anymore. Just playing through MHW normally, you don't need to worry about much grinding especially if you're just using one weapon (the more weapons you use the more hunting you have to do basically to be able to get resources and upgrade them all). It's the endgame that's about grinding and kinda the whole WoW "why do you raid? so I can raid more" aspect. The endgame of MHW is disappointing (at least to me) because you'll have acquired equipment that easily kills most of the monsters too quickly so you only have a small handful of the endgame monsters actually pose decent fights or drop things you want so the game kinda drops from having say 30 monsters to fight to like 5. Everyone has beat the game without leveling because your character doesn't level in MH. It would be like Souls not having levels and only having weapon upgrades basically, which is what the SL1 runs allow for anyway so literally every MHW playthrough is a SL1 run technically.

I really don't get people that like Souls criticizing MH for being cumbersome when what MH does is what they like Souls for in the first place like you just can't interrupt animations (like just about any action game from Bayo to God of War to Batman), which is something Souls players boast about Souls having, MH just focuses more on said aspect and it's less spammy than Souls because you have to think even more about your actions. Yes, you can min/max gear to where you can spam but again that's most every game because most games aren't perfectly balanced and there's almost always some meta builds that break the game.

I've played completely through 2 Souls games and from what Yahtzee said about ER being almost completely a Souls game in mechanics and the game adding an open world and more mobs, 1 thing I generally don't like and 1 thing I for sure don't like, I don't get how I'm knocking it just to knock it. Exploring and finding interesting things does look very appealing to me but all the added mobs all over are very unappealing aspect to me (because combat is not the main aspect I enjoy from the game) that I feel it would cause more dislike than the benefits it provides. I found that DS1 and BB have too much combat, I'd prefer a Souls game with less combat than more combat and it seems like ER has much more combat than both of those games.

I’d like what Horizon does with targeting different areas to be applied more in other games. Maybe MHW does it too but the gameplay itself looks far more awkward and tedious mechanically. I think what I want to see in melee focused combat needs more R&D to really work well.

 

[BrawlMan]

No, I can't enjoy the games as much as I used to, because From went out of their way to please those pros.

Not really. Though you have a point with Sekiro. Otherwise, most of their later games ain't that hard and inaccessible. It sounds like your making excuses not to play the other games. You can choose to play whatever you like or makes you feel comfortable, but don't make silly excuses that are full of shit. I don't bother with any of From Software's Souls titles, because they hold no interests, and I don't care much for the play styles. It's as simple as that. If they bring back Tenchu and Armored Core, color me excited. Hell, they can bring back Ninja Blade, and I would not complain. The idiotic fans are not preventing you from playing, it's all you.

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls II, loved them.

Funny, because most fans hate or find II too flawed. Miyazaki did not even work on that one, because he was working on Bloodborne. I don't have a problem, but just pointing it out.

Another reason I can't enjoy them as much is because they're just regurgitating now.

I'll give you that to an extent.