Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Dwarvenhobble

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Except again, you're just exaggerating it for one side and downplaying it for the other. Romance and sex actually came up for Bill far less than it did for Rose or Clara/Rory, for instance. Or literally any character from Friends. But you noticed it and exaggerated it, because you have a weird hang-up.
Actually every episode Bill said at one point "I'm a lesbian" in Doctor Who except 2 episodes, where she was romantically involved in them.

Pretty sure even Rose, Amy or Clara didn't have it come up that often.

I mean come on Bill was worse written than Vastra and Jenny and one of the writers for them even made a tongue joke.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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When someone said "not for me", it means they dislike it. You specifically dislike the presence of people with certain characteristics.
No that's just seemingly your binary view on things.

Something can be not for me and I don't actively hate it.


That doesn't happen to gay characters at any greater rate than straight characters. Sexuality actually makes up less of their depiction. But you're moaning about it specifically, and solely, with gay characters, because you have a weird hang-up.
It really does happen to gay characters more often lol.

Again Bill.
As another example Supergirl's Sister got reduced down to that too after Season 1.
 

Silvanus

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Actually every episode Bill said at one point "I'm a lesbian" in Doctor Who except 2 episodes, where she was romantically involved in them.

Pretty sure even Rose, Amy or Clara didn't have it come up that often.

I mean come on Bill was worse written than Vastra and Jenny and one of the writers for them even made a tongue joke.
Someone actually crunched the numbers here, funnily enough, for both references and explicit depiction of romance/sexuality among Dr. Who companions.

Bill Potts is below the average for Nu-Who female companions. 7 out of 12 eps have a mention, and 4 out of 12 have a depiction. As opposed to 21 & 13 out of 35 for Clara, and 24 & 19 out of 31 for Rose.
 

Silvanus

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No that's just seemingly your binary view on things.

Something can be not for me and I don't actively hate it.
If someone's innate characteristics by themselves-- their ethnicity, gender, sexuality etc-- negatively impact your enjoyment of whatever they're in, please explain to me how that isn't prejudice.

The characteristic itself is negatively impacting how you see the person. That's like the definition of prejudice.

It really does happen to gay characters more often lol.

Again Bill.
As another example Supergirl's Sister got reduced down to that too after Season 1.
Neither of these have sexuality/romance as front-and-centre as much as literally any main character from Friends.
 

Casual Shinji

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It seems you are unwilling to believe any alternative. I'm sure you know in your mind that people got "explicit content" stamped on album covers. I'm sure you know they cut Elvis off at the waist before airing him on tv. You have to understand there are things people would rather keep hidden from children, but are choosing to treat one particular thing as exceptional. Yes, people would be upset at romance in Mr Rodgers, regardless of orientation.
Why the heck are you reaching for these examples in particular? Is it because when it comes to what I was actually talking about - romance in Disney movies - that you have nothing to stand on? Surely not, right?

Ignoring for one second issues you personally might have with romance in kids media, please point me to an example of conservatives (or really anyone, but let's face it it's always conservatives) protesting straight romance in any of the Disney animated movies that would make their current huff over possible LGBTQ+ content just seem like more of the same from them.
I dunno maybe, just maybe, and I could be wrong here but maybe shit like this is a bad idea to do


Especially when it turns out quite a few in that video get found out to be sex offender whose crime were going after kids.

I dunno maybe just maybe some people are a little put off by for example 8 year old drag acts that apparently at one point ended up heading towards burlesque and seeing some people who saw it go down (who were gay BTW) tell people about it because they found it crossed a line for them.

I dunno maybe it's me but maybe there's a concern over the idea that some people who happily yell and tweet things like "All Cis people are evil" and "Death to the disgusting breeders" on social media aren't the best people to be teaching kid or even setting the curriculum regarding it.

You know just like I'm sure no-one here (and to be clear me included) would want West Boro Baptist Church teaching kids of influencing the curriculum.

I don't know maybe some of the tales of people pushing the line a bit are getting people a bit concerned that other idiots are doing it too and aren't being found out so because some people can't use a degree of common sense everyone is now suffering.
'You mean, of all the LGBTQ+ people in the world some of them do terrible things? Well geez, I guess that must mean we should keep a close eye on all of them and be very careful when leaving them with children. Maybe not leave them with children at all, you know, just to be sure. That's not bigoted at all. I mean, you wouldn't want the Klu Klux Clan educating our children, right?' (Though considering Florida and Texas at the moment, they probably really wouldn't mind.)

Yeah, that's one hell of a pathetic reach. Unsurprisingly. Nice job comparing the LGBTQ+ community to an actual hate group that wants gay people dead. Super classy right there.
 
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Trunkage

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And yet others on your side were happy to imply or state I was a bigot.

You and others here were happy to try and take what I said and twist it and expand it to justify your preconceptions and beliefs that weren't based on fact or evidence.
I'm just letting you know what I said. And now you are pretending I'm saying what you think they said.

Isn't this the EXACT thing you think other people

Also, good example of a strawman

And yet as is being shown in this thread it seems it is more than one person believing it.

Funny you tell me to stop strawmanning when you've done it one per post at last so far. Hell you just did it now and didn't realise it.
I guess a WHOLE lot of people perceive what you are doing as attacking gay people then. Have you ever thought about why that is?

Oh I'm sorry can you point me to where I said anything fucking like "All Gay people should be exterminated"
You dont want them in media until they meet your 'representation' metric. Which is impossible

Also, good example of strawman

Oh right I never fucking have this is just you and others here showing your biases and unwillingness to actually engage beyond broad strokes culture war fighting BS.
[/quute]
Unwillingness? We are just copying how you treat us. If it comes off as unwillingness than guess what... you did it first. It's like Rowling. She clearly bullied people first and wants to ban them from doing things. No wonder the twitter people are bullying her back

On these topics and anything to do with whatever you deem as woke culture, you have always been unwilling and always strawmanning.

That is not hyperbole. This whole conservation on this thread is just you strawmanning.

Also, good example of strawman

Oh you mean like trying to call others bigot for not blindly supporting whatever property.
You do not have to believe anything blindly. You just don't have to attack them for it.

Also, good example of strawman

Funny because I bet if I returned the favour and stated those people and fucking morons they'd be the first to run crying about how it's unfair and how I'm being nasty.
You don't think you've stated that people in this thread are crazy for following ideologies blindly? Or are you just triggered by the word bigot

Also, good example of strawman

But no I'm apparently somehow obligated to sit and take the Bullshit because they're "On the right side of history" or some such BS claim.
There has never been an obligation. You listen or not at your whim.

Also, good example of strawman

No Fuck that shit I'm done playing nice.
You are going to have to provide evidence of you playing nice

In modern film aiming for mass appeal, yeh they kind of tend to be.

In weirder pieces not heavily studio controlled not so much (See Atomic Blonde)
Look, I dont know whether Atomic Blonde would be a poster child of 'representation' or whatever. I found it average

Except I didn't say it. Another Strawman. You read that into what I actually said and are demanding I argue from that position.
I am definitely predicting what you might say here. As I stated in that sentence

You'll now argue that I totally did say that and I'll respond that I didn't and it's a personal incredulity fallacy on your part and you can either accept that you're wrong or keep yelling demanding I accept something that I'm not going to accept as my position and you can just get increasingly annoyed and invective about it.
I am under no illusion that you are going to accept anything I say

Funny, you think this is me demanding things. You SHOULD see me actually demanding things.

So your argument is PragerU is more influential than fucking Disney?
When did amount of influence become a metric. Oh, when you decided I had a point and moved the goal posts

Also, this is an example. You can find plenty of example in Disney since we have to doing an influence check now
Are you high right now?
I wish

You argue the whole point of conservatives is to follow tradition which is peer pressure from dead people, well weirdly enough if was a conservative government that took the UK into the EU originally. It was a conservative government in the UK that legalised gay marriage. It was a conservative politician in the UK that brought in compulsory schooling to stop kids being shipped off to work in the factories. Funny how that goes isn't it?

I'd say if modern progressiveness is about ripping up the past and trying to replace it claiming it's bad then you need to be careful that progress forward isn't towards and over a cliff.
This is not saying much. Gay marriage was accepted by progressive way before it was legalised. You have pointed out that the conservative block it until it can no longer be blocked

Also, good example of straw man

Fuck, ran out of time. jesus dude. Like just stop strawmanning.
 
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tstorm823

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Fred Rogers was married. Wasn't exactly a secret. And prudes shouldn't get to dictate content to the rest of us because they have shitty judgment of what is and is not appropriate.
How often did his marriage come up on the show? Very nearly never.

You have bad judgment of what is and is not appropriate.
 
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Buyetyen

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How often did his marriage come up on the show? Very nearly never.

You have bad judgment of what is and is not appropriate.
Maybe. I'm not a parent. But your ad hominem aside, I can tell what's going to really be tough on young queer kids (e.g. not having a set of adult figures they might be able to turn to for answers growing up). And I can tell it's a feature, not a bug. Which is why I tire of this sophistry.
 

tstorm823

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Ignoring for one second issues you personally might have with romance in kids media, please point me to an example of conservatives (or really anyone, but let's face it it's always conservatives) protesting straight romance in any of the Disney animated movies that would make their current huff over possible LGBTQ+ content just seem like more of the same from them.
People are currently complaining about a heterosexual crush in Turning Red.
There are like 10,000 feminist critiques of the portrayal of women in Disney movies.
But if you're gonna make me google concrete examples of Christian conservatives complaining about Disney's portrayal of romance, I guess I can do that:
 
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Trunkage

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I am more focused on a different discussion so maybe I missed your answer to this question...
How often did his marriage come up on the show? Very nearly never.

You have bad judgment of what is and is not appropriate.
How often did Phastos marriage come up in the eternals?
Or the centuar in Onwards?
 

Casual Shinji

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People are currently complaining about a heterosexual crush in Turning Red.
Yeah, that's a similar but different topic; that of teen girls being boy crazy. And how that's apparently bad to show in a Disney movie. It's a complaint from the same crowd that's anti-LGBTQ+ and hates to see what they see as "degenracy" become part of children's entertainment. It's moral panic. The same kind that felt the need to get uppity over Spongebob and Patrick being maybe gay cuz they were always hanging out and didn't have girlfriends.
There are like 10,000 feminist critiques of the portrayal of women in Disney movies.
I never said they didn't. I was talking about the people complaining about including ("forcing") gay characters/romance in Disney movies.
But if you're gonna make me google concrete examples of Christian conservatives complaining about Disney's portrayal of romance, I guess I can do that:
And both of them flew completely under the radar. I like how one of them still finds it necessary to mention LGBTQ+ representation in a negative way, because ofcourse.
 
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Agema

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Wonder what that background check would've brought up

Also, not owning the company would've put him on the hook if he didn't "act in the best interests of the company and shareholders"
Let's remember that Elon Musk has a history with Tesla of doing shit that is not in the best interests of the company and its shareholders (sometimes, for stuff he said on Twitter) that he's been investigated by the SEC for.

I cannot help but think Twitter might have asked some very pointed questions of Musk, and he got the message.
 
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Agema

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That's largely the right wing prudes again. Turning Red is about female puberty, a topic the right absolutely despises talking about.
It's a character-building rite of passage for girls to suddenly one day start bleeding from their vaginas with no idea why, panic that they're going to die, be stared at by their classmates or even mocked.

See also this comment about the use of pain relief in childbirth, courtesy of a 19th century Scottish clergyman:
"Chloroform is a decoy of Satan, apparently offering itself to bless women; but in the end it will harden society and rob God of the deep, earnest cries which arise in times of trouble for help."

Character building, I tell you.
 

thebobmaster

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I love it. We can have gay characters in stuff, that's fine. But if they do anything gay, it's shoving their sexuality down our throat (no pun intended), and if they say that are gay, than it is the only aspect of their character that exists, and they are therefore poorly written and shouldn't be supported as characters.

In other words, we can have gay characters, as long as we don't show them doing anything gay or say that they're gay.
 
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Thaluikhain

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I love it. We can have gay characters in stuff, that's fine. But if they do anything gay, it's shoving their sexuality down our throat (no pun intended), and if they say that are gay, than it is the only aspect of their character that exists, and they are therefore poorly written and shouldn't be supported as characters.

In other words, we can have gay characters, as long as we don't show them doing anything gay or say that they're gay.
Eh, gay coding villains has a long and distinguished history.
 

thebobmaster

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Eh, gay coding villains has a long and distinguished history.
I know. It's the "villains" part of that sentence that really bugs me, but I'm willing to accept it a bit more as just being the style at the time. The fact that in 2022, there are still people who claim to be all right with gay people in media, but only if they are coded, strikes me as disingenuous at best.
 

CriticalGaming

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In other words, we can have gay characters, as long as we don't show them doing anything gay or say that they're gay.
Not to mention you can't have the gay person doing anything unfavorable. Like there is a big complaint that trans people are often villains to a degree in movies and games.

Catherine Full Bodied got ratio'ed by trans people on twitter because the trans character "tricks" the main character into sleeping with them in the game. Thus making it a comedic thing at the expense of the trans character because they had to exist as a villian to trick the main character. This happens in 40-year-old-virgin as well as many other comedy films in which a character has an unexpected encounter with a trans person and it's played off as a, "Hahaha surprised that girl has a dick" joke.

The question for the representation crowd, is could there be a truly dispicable villain in a movie or game that was LBGT and it be okay? Would that be acceptable inclusive to make the character something people love to hate. Or would it be blasted as an excuse to show violence against a LBGT person?

For all the talk about representation, and inclusion, there are some aspects of that representation that the community doesn't want to have any part in.

You can twist anything into a negative, and the internet is well verse on this, so how far should media take the inclusion and representation before the communtiy would back off on it?
 
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